Wor Flags: visit worflags.org.uk/donate to support future displays

[LeeB]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Fans and players have a connection to NUFC, the thing that unites every person in the stadium. The head of state is a totally different matter in this day and age. I touched on it in another thread, but it would be accepted as a given that a tribute to the Tories would a no-go political divider, this is the same principle.

Exactly. When opinions range from absolutely loving the monarchy to absolutely hating them, it’s just asking for trouble trying to coordinate anything like this.

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Fans and players have a connection to NUFC, the thing that unites every person in the stadium. A monarch head of state is a totally different matter in this day and age. I touched on it in another thread, but it would be accepted as a given that a tribute to the Tories would a no-go political divider, this is the same principle.

 

 

 

I know where you're coming from and I agree but the precedent has already been set. If tributes are had for lesser status people as they have been (and I'm one that mutters aloud "why the fuck arecqe doing this?") then you cant really say no when it's the head of state.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

I know where you're coming from and I agree but the precedent has already been set. If tributes are had for lesser status people as they have been (and I'm one that mutters aloud "why the fuck arecqe doing this?") then you cant really say no when it's the head of state.

I really don't see how you can't. It's divisive, whereas all of the other examples aren't and generally have a connection with the club.

[madras]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

I really don't see how you can't. It's divisive, whereas all of the other examples aren't and generally have a connection with the club.

There have been other examples that had no connection with the club, Her sister for example. That's where the issue started, once you've started, it's difficult to stop, especially when it's the head of state 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

There have been other examples that had no connection with the club, Her sister for example. That's where the issue started, once you've started, it's difficult to stop, especially when it's the head of state 

I think we've gotten away from how Wor Flags considered doing a tribute like  

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I think we've gotten away from how Wor Flags considered doing a tribute like  

Yeah, I just thought if they read our boring conversation about it, it may put them to sleep and by the time they woke it might be too late to do anything about it anyway.

[Heron]

TBH I think the people in this thread are making more of it all than it has ever been discussed in the group itself.

 

I think there's an argument that those who wouldn't want it are saying it's best that it isn't done to avoid offence or whatever too. Very few people on here are pro queen or pro royals, and it'd be interesting to see if they think the same.

 

We touch on politics with inclusion displays and remembrance displays so, I don't see the difference tbh. 

 

Nonetheless, It's been a discussion that has taken place and will likely take place again if Bournemouth is on, if and a big if, anything is done, it will be as apolitical as possible I am sure.

 

Just chill folk. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Heron

[madras]

7 minutes ago, Heron said:

TBH I think the people in this thread are making more of it all than it has ever been discussed in the group itself.

 

I think there's an argument that those who wouldn't want it are saying it's best that it isn't done to avoid offence or whatever too. Very few people on here are pro queen or pro royals, and it'd be intetesting to see if they think the same.

 

We touch on politics with inclusion displays and remembrance displays so, I don't see the difference tbh. 

 

Nonetheless, It's been a discussion that has taken place and will likely take place again if Bournemouth is on, if and a big if, anything is done, it will be as apolitical as possible I am sure.

 

Just chill folk. 

 

 

 

Nah its not that, it's just the way conversations often go off on a tangent.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Support the team, not the regime. 

[number37]

15 minutes ago, Heron said:

TBH I think the people in this thread are making more of it all than it has ever been discussed in the group itself.

 

I think there's an argument that those who wouldn't want it are saying it's best that it isn't done to avoid offence or whatever too. Very few people on here are pro queen or pro royals, and it'd be interesting to see if they think the same.

 

We touch on politics with inclusion displays and remembrance displays so, I don't see the difference tbh. 

 

Nonetheless, It's been a discussion that has taken place and will likely take place again if Bournemouth is on, if and a big if, anything is done, it will be as apolitical as possible I am sure.

 

Just chill folk. 

 

 

 

In true King Charles style, I'll stick my neck out. I guess I can be considered to be pro-monarchy purely because I'm largely anti-politics and I don't fancy being banished to Wisconsin for not at least picking a side. 

 

I think it would be too risky, ultimately, to have a flag display (or just a single flag) for the Queen even if that image from earlier of her presenting our last FA Cup would be a suitable compromise and gesture to incorporate both her and the club without being overly pro-monarchy. It would have acknowledged a moment in history, both from the past and from what we're witnessing now, plus it would remind younger audiences of what a trophy looks like. 

 

Heron, you are right in that there have been previous displays that have, in one way or another, touched upon politics as sadly, very sadly, pretty much everything can, has and will be politicised whether that's ever the intention or not and so fundamentally this should be be no different. But it just is. 

 

We've seen displays proudly supporting the LGBT community, encouraging inclusivity regardless of sexuality, gender, race or religion. There'd be a minority (hopefully a tiny minority) of supporters who disagree with such sentiments but the displays go ahead. The source of 80% of our club's ownership originates from a country where such views are not as widespread as in the UK. We know all too well where this money comes from. 

 

There have also been displays to commemorate our armed forces, to reflect and pay tribute to their sacrifices in conflicts over the years in almost every part of the world. The reasons these sacrifices are made, as in the deployment of our armed forces, is by its very nature a political one but our tributes remain fully focused on the human side of war and the loss we all feel. 

 

So, yes, everything can be made political and of course any tribute to the Queen has considerable political elements but I also think that there can be a human element as well to acknowledge the passing of a woman who gave her long life to the service of this country. The reason for her being in such a role, the relevance of the role itself and its place in the modern world is absolutely up for debate and discussion, I'm sure a slight pause in such passionate discourse would have been alright. 

 

I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's impossible to satisfy everyone but it's quite a divisive topic that maybe isn't worth alienating a core group of fans over even if in practical terms most people probably won't care either way (regardless of belief) and would probably just want to crack on and watch the match. 

 

I know I've waffled without actually saying a lot so maybe I could be a politician after all, if I dumbed myself down a wee bit more. 

[loki679]

What's the point?  It's just divisive and contributes nothing towards the mission of supporting the team.

 

Stick to the football and stay away from this shite.

[SteV]

18 minutes ago, loki679 said:

What's the point?  It's just divisive and contributes nothing towards the mission of supporting the team.

 

Stick to the football and stay away from this shite.

Not trying to be provocative (much), but how do you feel about Remembrance Day displays? What do they contribute to supporting the team?

[HaydnNUFC]

18 minutes ago, SteV said:

Not trying to be provocative (much), but how do you feel about Remembrance Day displays? What do they contribute to supporting the team?

 

For me personally, I believe that football is a lot closer to remembrance than championing a monarch. Fans, coaches and players all fought or were involved in the two world wars (I believe there is a plaque outside SJP detailing that) and its something that has always been done in football. 

 

Saying that I don't get my knickers in a twist over people who don't wear poppies or get involved etc.

[Groundhog63]

Fuck it @Heron

Please both factions. 1st half have a big fuck off flag of Lizzie and in the 2nd half set it ahad

 

 

I'll get me coat

[Sean]

If there were conversations taken about it, it should have taken a few seconds to decide that it's not a good idea. No need for further conversations surely.

[loki679]

58 minutes ago, SteV said:

Not trying to be provocative (much), but how do you feel about Remembrance Day displays? What do they contribute to supporting the team?

 

I wouldn't have them either.

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, loki679 said:

 

I wouldn't have them either.

Fair enough

[gbandit]

Remembrance stuff I wouldn’t mind if it hadn’t been adopted by the poppy shagging brigade on a national level

[Guest HTT II]

51 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

For me personally, I believe that football is a lot closer to remembrance than championing a monarch. Fans, coaches and players all fought or were involved in the two world wars (I believe there is a plaque outside SJP detailing that) and its something that has always been done in football. 

 

Saying that I don't get my knickers in a twist over people who don't wear poppies or get involved etc.

Aye we had several players registered who served in both wars and obviously here in the NE we contributed massively as the whole nation did and other nations to the War efforts, both times.
 

I don’t wear a Poppy, I don’t care about the whole ‘appeal’ nor for seeing our players wearing one on their kits or anyone else on their attire, it’s your choice, but I will always pay my own respects when due at such times with a moment’s silence or applause. 
 

As for the queen, she was privileged no doubt but like a soldier she too give her life to the duty of our country, if not exactly in terms of dying for the cause, a duty none of us asks for, wants or needs really, but in her world, she had no choice and she did it with dignity and no doubt against her own will if she did have a choice, which again she didn’t once her father passed.

 

I’m not fussed either way if Wor Flags show a display regarding her passing or not, if they do I certainly, and I say this as anti royal and monarchy, I won’t be critical of any such display. In fact it may spread joy among some of the fanbase who maybe pro royal and monarchy and again, it’s been a shitty few years, let’s spread some love if and when we can.

 

The Queen was obviously a much loved figure all-around the world, even Putin himself sent a form of condolence, she was a grandmother, an old lady who I don’t think anyone should show disrespect to in actual person. I know I’ve posted shit in the chat thread about her passing so I’m kind of hypocritical, but in person, I would never boo or show a sign of disrespect if people were to genuinely mourn someone or show some sign of condolence to her passing, in public or private.

 

I think with the cancellation of games, the game has scored on own goal tbh. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by HTT II

[HaydnNUFC]

Aye. Politically I'm a socialist and am vehemently against the idea of being born into positions of privilege which has been built on the wealth obtained over centuries of colonial exploitation. Am against the taxpayer paying money to keep them and resent the flagshagging which is rife in England. Hence why I am strongly against commemorating a monarch who probably visited this city 3 or 4 times over 70 years while on the throne. Especially as Newcastle is a left wing Labour voting city.

 

The poppy is slightly different I think but gbandit is right that the symbol has been highjacked by the right wing. But I'm not overly bothered by poppy wearing on shirts or displays (remember the Flanders Fields display in 2018), its something football has always done and this city and football club has military connections so I can take or leave them. So much different to having a banner of the queen. But we certainly are a far cry from the Cool Britannia shit from the 90s.

[Guest HTT II]

16 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Aye. Politically I'm a socialist and am vehemently against the idea of being born into positions of privilege which has been built on the wealth obtained over centuries of colonial exploitation. Am against the taxpayer paying money to keep them and resent the flagshagging which is rife in England. Hence why I am strongly against commemorating a monarch who probably visited this city 3 or 4 times over 70 years while on the throne. Especially as Newcastle is a left wing Labour voting city.

 

The poppy is slightly different I think but gbandit is right that the symbol has been highjacked by the right wing. But I'm not overly bothered by poppy wearing on shirts or displays (remember the Flanders Fields display in 2018), its something football has always done and this city and football club has military connections so I can take or leave them. So much different to having a banner of the queen. But we certainly are a far cry from the Cool Britannia shit from the 90s.

I’d hope our club, fanbase and region would always honour those that served and died in both wars and those that lived through it in service, but are now no longer with us at SJP. I don’t need to see a Poppy on a shirt for that or have to wear one myself, just a moment’s reflection, some respect in silence or applause, that’s all.
 

There are too many agendas today, people, like you said, highjacking causes and profiting from the genuine goodwill of people. I go back to this; life is fucking cruel at times, it’s been a shitty few years, if some people want to applause or hold a moment’s silence for the Queen, or display a banner or whatever, you go ahead, good on you.
 

I personally won’t but I’m not going to condemn those that do. Many of my family and friends are anti royal, monarchy, establishment, but many were saddened by the Queen’s passing and I’ve lost family members to both world wars (active service) and I know many considered their enemy at the time, the German’s, as fellow human beings. We just need to show some more compassion even against people who like the Queen are privileged and the common person has nothing at all in common with or never will. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by HTT II

[Heron]

1 hour ago, Groundhog63 said:

Fuck it @Heron

Please both factions. 1st half have a big fuck off flag of Lizzie and in the 2nd half set it ahad

 

 

I'll get me coat

[Heron]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

If there were conversations taken about it, it should have taken a few seconds to decide that it's not a good idea. No need for further conversations surely.

People's opinions aren't always set in stone. Discussions are often had in the heat of the moment, at the time, but then some people listen to one another and take considerations for one anothers thoughts and feelings. Which is right. 

[Heron]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Aye. Politically I'm a socialist and am vehemently against the idea of being born into positions of privilege which has been built on the wealth obtained over centuries of colonial exploitation. Am against the taxpayer paying money to keep them and resent the flagshagging which is rife in England. Hence why I am strongly against commemorating a monarch who probably visited this city 3 or 4 times over 70 years while on the throne. Especially as Newcastle is a left wing Labour voting city.

 

The poppy is slightly different I think but gbandit is right that the symbol has been highjacked by the right wing. But I'm not overly bothered by poppy wearing on shirts or displays (remember the Flanders Fields display in 2018), its something football has always done and this city and football club has military connections so I can take or leave them. So much different to having a banner of the queen. But we certainly are a far cry from the Cool Britannia shit from the 90s.

With regards to the 'flag shagging that is rife in England' that's just not right in my opinion like. There's no more flag shagging here than in any other country I've visited. In fact it's probably less so than most. 

[Mike]

17 hours ago, madras said:

That was one of my suggestions and I donated £20 for it.

 

Link?