AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Northerngimp said: I think you need to take a break from social media fella, i mean we have problems that need solved pretty much like any western country at the moment but to say we cant fly the flag or show reflection at the moment of the head of state passing at our sporting events is a bit OTT. Sorry, that post was about my feelings in general about the Queen passing, I definitely wasn’t saying other people shouldn’t pay respects if they want to. It’s a bit separate to the question about whether WF themselves should be doing it. Edited September 16, 2022 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnab Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 The great thing about Wor Flags is that it brings everyone together but this will cause division. Its a huge mistake and totally unnecessary given there is already a minutes silence/national anthem. I think there'll be a lot of people unhappy with where their donations are going and could be a backlash. What a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRL Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) Most of the country are not overtly political, and it's incredibly clear from the reaction that this transcends politics. There's plenty of pros and cons to argue in relation to monarchy; politically, economically, ethically and beyond. But I think you can say fairly definitively that most people in the country do not feel negatively towards the Queen herself, that most wish to pay respect to our Head of State who spent 70 years serving the country. I don't see that as controversial at all, like I don't see any issue with the recommencing of a debate regarding monarchy commencing in the coming weeks, particularly with Charles in charge, I just don't think those on the republican side of said debate do themselves many favours using an old lady's death as a negative trigger. As mentioned above, Wor Flags are in an utter catch 22 here, but may feel on balance that more folk who donate or who make the decisions within WF would like to see a tribute than not. Unfortunately I've no idea if that's true or not, but I trust them to make the right decision, and if they put on a display I don't deem it as political (going down that rabbit hole you could argue that no display in and of itself is a political statement). I don't expect this to open floodgates to party political flag displays or religious banners, simply an acknowledgement of the longest serving public servant in the history of our nation, which won't happen again in any of our lifetimes. Edited September 16, 2022 by PRL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number37 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 As mentioned earlier and throughout, whenever Wor Flags venture into anything that's not football related then there's always the risk it's going to offend or antagonise a group of people. Support for LGBT rights and commemorating those who died in war have nothing to do with football but have had their respective displays because they have very real human elements but they can also be described as having a political edge if that's what you are looking for. Say if you have 25% of people strongly pro-monarchy, 25% strongly against but the other 50% not really giving a strong shit either way then if you mostly associate with your particular 25% then it's only natural that you'd place a stronger value on that opinion and assume a lot more people share that view than what maybe what's reflected in reality. I think with the national anthem, minute silence plus applause on 70 minutes then that's probably a good amount of tribute and reflection. If people do or do not want to partake in any or all of that then that's fine and entirely their opinion and right. A flag display on top of that may be venturing into final straw territory but of course that depends on the display, which we don't know. I can't imagine it being full on Alan Shearer testimonial style (although I hope not) but that FA Cup image in isolation can't hurt that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejeck Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 It's going to be this on a giant surfer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, finnab said: The great thing about Wor Flags is that it brings everyone together but this will cause division. Its a huge mistake and totally unnecessary given there is already a minutes silence/national anthem. I think there'll be a lot of people unhappy with where their donations are going and could be a backlash. What a shame. I think the division is overblown. I'd rather they didn't but its not my choice. I may or may not be inside the stadium for the silence. If I'm inside ill not sing God Save the King. If wor flags has her image on a flag I'll not be kicking off and it wouldn't stop me donating in the future. Edited September 16, 2022 by madras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Don’t see how a display for the queen will effect the atmosphere at all tbh. As I said earlier as soon as the match kicks off, no one in the stadium is going to be sat thinking about a flag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, number37 said: As mentioned earlier and throughout, whenever Wor Flags venture into anything that's not football related then there's always the risk it's going to offend or antagonise a group of people. Support for LGBT rights and commemorating those who died in war have nothing to do with football but have had their respective displays because they have very real human elements but they can also be described as having a political edge if that's what you are looking for. Say if you have 25% of people strongly pro-monarchy, 25% strongly against but the other 50% not really giving a strong shit either way then if you mostly associate with your particular 25% then it's only natural that you'd place a stronger value on that opinion and assume a lot more people share that view than what maybe what's reflected in reality. I think with the national anthem, minute silence plus applause on 70 minutes then that's probably a good amount of tribute and reflection. If people do or do not want to partake in any or all of that then that's fine and entirely their opinion and right. A flag display on top of that may be venturing into final straw territory but of course that depends on the display, which we don't know. I can't imagine it being full on Alan Shearer testimonial style (although I hope not) but that FA Cup image in isolation can't hurt that much. Very fair post. I had forgotten about the LGBT stuff. Although I wouldn't agree that asserting someone's basic human rights is political, I guess you would get some people who would. Anyway, I'll just try to suffer through it all and not let it affect the day too much. Might be the first time I don't get to the ground ridiculously early Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 The LGBT displays have been about demonstrating our inclusivity as a fanbase, I'd define that as being NUFC related far more than any display this weekend could be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Heron said: You boys and girls aren't gonna be happy 😬 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number37 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Barnes23 said: The LGBT displays have been about demonstrating our inclusivity as a fanbase, I'd define that as being NUFC related far more than any display this weekend could be. Oh, I agree. The only reason I mentioned it was because if things (to be incorporated into a display) are to be boiled down to be either football or non-football then strictly speaking it's non-football. Although, maybe it can be football because, and we may sadly never know, there may be one or more players who are gay and it's good to show them our love and support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 I'd prefer they stayed away from anything remotely political to be honest. A message in support and tribute to a dead monarch is undoubtedly a political position - it's ridiculous to suggest that it isn't. I'd be the same if they started making other political statements like many ultras groups do (left leaning, right leaning, anything). It works for some clubs and cultures where the politics is fundamentally ingrained into the fan culture or the history of the club - but WF has always been entirely about the club and the players only. It is a misstep to move away from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: The point is that it is displaying a political position that some don’t agree with. Support for the monarchy is a political position - it’s got nothing to do with respecting others. Making statements on behalf of the support - which is what a flag display potentially does - is going to lead to criticism. I love those WF displays; it’s always great to see what they’ve come up with. It’s one of the most fantastic, communally-minded things our support has ever done (probably the most fantastic thing, tbh). Is it really a political statement to run a display for the head of state, who has been around for 70 years? I mean its not like they are favouring the left or the right but more reflecting on that someone has been there for most if not of all our lives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Barnes23 said: The LGBT displays have been about demonstrating our inclusivity as a fanbase, I'd define that as being NUFC related far more than any display this weekend could be. Good display it, NUFC is for everyone, the more the merry but dont stop people wanting to reflect on the things that are or have been important to them over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Northerngimp said: Is it really a political statement to run a display for the head of state, who has been around for 70 years? I mean its not like they are favouring the left or the right but more reflecting on that someone has been there for most if not of all our lives. Yes, it is overtly political. How can't people grasp that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Northerngimp said: Is it really a political statement to run a display for the head of state, who has been around for 70 years? I mean its not like they are favouring the left or the right but more reflecting on that someone has been there for most if not of all our lives. Yes, it is. The length of time isn’t relevant - and it isn’t a left or right thing. Right wing libertarians and left wing Marxists are both unlikely to be pro-monarchy. If it isn’t a political statement, then I’m sure no-one would be upset with a ‘pro republic’ flag next to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Yes, it is. The length of time isn’t relevant - and it isn’t a left or right thing. Right wing libertarians and left wing Marxists are both unlikely to be pro-monarchy. If it isn’t a political statement, then I’m sure no-one would be upset with a ‘pro republic’ flag next to it. How is that the same as paying respect to a Queen when there's been Kings & Queens for over 1000 years? That's a huge difference to politic beliefs. The United Kingdom having a monarchy is a matter of fact not political opinion. If one day in the future we are a republic and the ruler dies, there'd be a mark of respect surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) The pages of discussion whether it's a bad idea or not (I think it's a terrible idea) should be indicative of exactly why this shouldn't happen. Edited September 16, 2022 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said: How is that the same as paying respect to a Queen when there's been Kings & Queens for over 1000 years? That's a huge difference to politic beliefs. The United Kingdom having a monarchy is a matter of fact not political opinion. If one day in the future we are a republic and the ruler dies, there'd be a mark of respect surely? Yup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Absolutely loved our end belting out the national anthem at cup finals, tomorrow will be the same despite folk in here with differing views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Just now, HaydnNUFC said: Given the pages of discussion whether it's a bad idea or not (I think it's a terrible idea) should be indicative of exactly why this shouldn't happen. Not really, as i think N-O is only a micro selection of NUFC fans from the local area and those fans from around the world. I think a large majority will either be actively involved, choose to quietly reflect, keep quiet and allow others their moment or stay away and turn up for the game. Its just about a bit of respect, thats all. No one is asking you to swear allegiance to the crown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: How is that the same as paying respect to a Queen when there's been Kings & Queens for over 1000 years? That's a huge difference to politic beliefs. The United Kingdom having a monarchy is a matter of fact not political opinion. If one day in the future we are a republic and the ruler dies, there'd be a mark of respect surely? You don’t get rulers in democratic republics A monarchy is a system of govt - if how people are governed is not political, then nothing is. It’s continued existence is (or should be) a choice. A political choice. Ask the French if they want their monarchy back - after all, theirs lasted longer than ours. edit: no-one is saying that there shouldn’t be a minutes silence etc. But any supporters display is a political statement - and makes it for all of us. Edited September 16, 2022 by TheBrownBottle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jimburst said: Yes, it is overtly political. How can't people grasp that? Wow, I must be T H I C K. I just cannot "grasp" that at all. I'm sure decency will prevail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, Northerngimp said: Is it really a political statement to run a display for the head of state, who has been around for 70 years? I mean its not like they are favouring the left or the right but more reflecting on that someone has been there for most if not of all our lives. You'd have to be either hopelessly ignorant or, at best, woefully niave to think a hereditary monarchy propped up and promoted by an equally hereditary/entitled establishment ISN'T political. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Heron must be sat back with his feet up watching this unfold. What a tinker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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