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[Guest HTT II]

I don’t envy Wor flags mind, if they display something they are either patriotic Brits or Nazi sympathisers and if they don’t, heartless bastards. It’s a shite state of affairs to be in Tommy and all the fresh SJP air in the world won’t make any fucking difference!

 

Some people hate the English, I don't! They're just wankers!

[HaydnNUFC]

6 minutes ago, Heron said:

With regards to the 'flag shagging that is rife in England' that's just not right in my opinion like. There's no more flag shagging here than in any other country I've visited. In fact it's probably less so than most. 

 

I'd argue since the Brexit referendum there's been quite a big rise in English nationalism. How Britain Ends is a read I'd strongly recommend. 

[gbandit]

On the subject of flag shagging, I agree most countries have a strong sense of national pride but I feel like other countries are proud of their traditions, their food, culture. What are the flag shaggers here proud of? The empire? Loving a drink? And what else? The UK has a wealth of cultural achievements on an incredibly grand scale but that doesn’t necessarily make me want to shag the flag, just makes me feel proud that we’ve historically been a very open and liberal nation. That side of things isn’t generally appreciated by the patriots though and politically we’ve been moving away from things that can make you proud of this country for well over a decade 

[Guest HTT II]

3 minutes ago, gbandit said:

On the subject of flag shagging, I agree most countries have a strong sense of national pride but I feel like other countries are proud of their traditions, their food, culture. What are the flag shaggers here proud of? The empire? Loving a drink? And what else? The UK has a wealth of cultural achievements on an incredibly grand scale but that doesn’t necessarily make me want to shag the flag, just makes me feel proud that we’ve historically been a very open and liberal nation. That side of things isn’t generally appreciated by the patriots though and politically we’ve been moving away from things that can make you proud of this country for well over a decade 

I’m a person who thinks this world of ours is free to me and you, to explore, live, work, be part of, so nationalism I’m just not, well into. I couldn’t care less about a flag or a symbol or a royal family, what I do, however, where my country of BIRTH is concerned though is that we are a nation of tolerance, peace and importance in terms of keeping in line with those cultural things I value, as a person, a human being.

 

And that’s where my pride in my country of, again, birth, exists, not some royal family, old traditions or pageantry. I’m a World War history nerd buff or whatever you want to call it and I’ve researched my own family ties and I’m so proud of the efforts we went to to combat Nazism and other evils, but recognise my own country of birth has played a huge part in the many wrongs and evils of our world.

 

I support my nation’s  football team, England, but that 3 lions, the Union Jack or Saint George’s Cross, means fuck all to me. It’s weird in ways because I don’t identify as English or British, but a person of this earth which I feel is my right to again live, explore and work or whatever, yet if you ask me where I’m from I’ll proudly say Newcastle and that I’m a Geordie, which I obviously identify as and as much as the 3 Lions mean nowt to me, our club badge does and so do our black and white colours and those sea horses and that castle emblem.

[Heron]

19 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I'd argue since the Brexit referendum there's been quite a big rise in English nationalism. How Britain Ends is a read I'd strongly recommend. 

Are you referring to the flying of flags or nationalism in terms of racism/negative nationalism?

[Yorkie]

5 hours ago, Heron said:

We touch on politics with inclusion displays and remembrance displays so, I don't see the difference tbh. 

 

I think there's definitely a difference like, and like I said in my last post on this; I'm no subscriber to the "keep politics out of football" chatter. Football has always had a social conscience and the modern game particularly, with its intense exposure, presents a massive opportunity to make progressive statements. Anyone deriding an inclusion display is at best ignorant or at worst a bigot and their opinion is no good reason to avoid doing such a thing. Any divisiveness isn't a factor in that case imo.

 

However there are people with fair/legitimate reasons to deride the monarchy and there's no 'social' reason to do a big feature on it, a la the Pride one for instance. No one's ignorant or a bigot for having a strong opinion on the monarchy, whether they're pro or anti. The divisiveness therefore definitely is a factor imo. 

 

If there's any sort of gesture I hope it's nothing more than just a flag that's as prominent as any of the other smaller ones, like the BMW one or whatever. That suggestion from the Northumbria Twitter account or whatever it was is truly a nauseating thought.  But I'm sure no such thing is on the cards. 

[Happinesstan]

11 hours ago, Darth Crooks said:

I’d be happy with the FA cup one like. I’m pretty anti monarchy tbh. Plenty other places can indulge in Union flag waving. Keep it about NUFC and it would be nice to have some subtlety in all this posturing.

I'd be delighted with it. As soon as @Optimistic Nut posted it, I thought it was perfect. It's a toon flag, which resonates with the moment, and that's what they've always succeeded in doing. Anybody who saw that on match day, and got wound up by it, would defy polite definition.

 

Let's be honest, it should already have been a flag.

[Happinesstan]

7 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Can barely believe a tribute to the queen was even considered tbh. I would have thought it was clear to see how divisive that would be 

I agree. But I also see that whatever we do is going to be used in a divisive way. The cup presentation gives us the opportunity to plead ignorance.

"The Queen? Oh aye so it is. It's been such a long time, christ has the queen been going THAT long?"

[Happinesstan]

7 hours ago, LeeB said:

Exactly. When opinions range from absolutely loving the monarchy to absolutely hating them, it’s just asking for trouble trying to coordinate anything like this.

Should we have refused to accept the FA Cup?

[Happinesstan]

5 hours ago, number37 said:

In true King Charles style, I'll stick my neck out. I guess I can be considered to be pro-monarchy purely because I'm largely anti-politics and I don't fancy being banished to Wisconsin for not at least picking a side. 

 

I think it would be too risky, ultimately, to have a flag display (or just a single flag) for the Queen even if that image from earlier of her presenting our last FA Cup would be a suitable compromise and gesture to incorporate both her and the club without being overly pro-monarchy. It would have acknowledged a moment in history, both from the past and from what we're witnessing now, plus it would remind younger audiences of what a trophy looks like. 

 

Heron, you are right in that there have been previous displays that have, in one way or another, touched upon politics as sadly, very sadly, pretty much everything can, has and will be politicised whether that's ever the intention or not and so fundamentally this should be be no different. But it just is. 

 

We've seen displays proudly supporting the LGBT community, encouraging inclusivity regardless of sexuality, gender, race or religion. There'd be a minority (hopefully a tiny minority) of supporters who disagree with such sentiments but the displays go ahead. The source of 80% of our club's ownership originates from a country where such views are not as widespread as in the UK. We know all too well where this money comes from. 

 

There have also been displays to commemorate our armed forces, to reflect and pay tribute to their sacrifices in conflicts over the years in almost every part of the world. The reasons these sacrifices are made, as in the deployment of our armed forces, is by its very nature a political one but our tributes remain fully focused on the human side of war and the loss we all feel. 

 

So, yes, everything can be made political and of course any tribute to the Queen has considerable political elements but I also think that there can be a human element as well to acknowledge the passing of a woman who gave her long life to the service of this country. The reason for her being in such a role, the relevance of the role itself and its place in the modern world is absolutely up for debate and discussion, I'm sure a slight pause in such passionate discourse would have been alright. 

 

I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's impossible to satisfy everyone but it's quite a divisive topic that maybe isn't worth alienating a core group of fans over even if in practical terms most people probably won't care either way (regardless of belief) and would probably just want to crack on and watch the match. 

 

I know I've waffled without actually saying a lot so maybe I could be a politician after all, if I dumbed myself down a wee bit more. 

Good post.

 

I just don't like this idea that she has served her country. By definition the country has served her all her life.

[Happinesstan]

2 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I'd argue since the Brexit referendum there's been quite a big rise in English nationalism. How Britain Ends is a read I'd strongly recommend. 

Don't you think that's kind of natural, though? At least inevitable. Is it a permanent change that we need to address? I don't know.

[Happinesstan]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

On the subject of flag shagging, I agree most countries have a strong sense of national pride but I feel like other countries are proud of their traditions, their food, culture. What are the flag shaggers here proud of? The empire? Loving a drink? And what else? The UK has a wealth of cultural achievements on an incredibly grand scale but that doesn’t necessarily make me want to shag the flag, just makes me feel proud that we’ve historically been a very open and liberal nation. That side of things isn’t generally appreciated by the patriots though and politically we’ve been moving away from things that can make you proud of this country for well over a decade 

Yep Germans are as proud as punch to dress up in lederhosen and slap each other silly, because people come from all over the world to join in, with beeer.

But you ever see a brit extolling the virtues of the morris dancer?

[Happinesstan]

1 hour ago, HTT II said:

I’m a person who thinks this world of ours is free to me and you, to explore, live, work, be part of, so nationalism I’m just not, well into. I couldn’t care less about a flag or a symbol or a royal family, what I do, however, where my country of BIRTH is concerned though is that we are a nation of tolerance, peace and importance in terms of keeping in line with those cultural things I value, as a person, a human being.

 

And that’s where my pride in my country of, again, birth, exists, not some royal family, old traditions or pageantry. I’m a World War history nerd buff or whatever you want to call it and I’ve researched my own family ties and I’m so proud of the efforts we went to to combat Nazism and other evils, but recognise my own country of birth has played a huge part in the many wrongs and evils of our world.

 

I support my nation’s  football team, England, but that 3 lions, the Union Jack or Saint George’s Cross, means fuck all to me. It’s weird in ways because I don’t identify as English or British, but a person of this earth which I feel is my right to again live, explore and work or whatever, yet if you ask me where I’m from I’ll proudly say Newcastle and that I’m a Geordie, which I obviously identify as and as much as the 3 Lions mean nowt to me, our club badge does and so do our black and white colours and those sea horses and that castle emblem.

Not sure who it was [I'm think Mark Thomas or Rhod Gilbert] that said "I'll fight for my countr... My cit... My tow... My esta... My flat. I'll fight for my flat", but they were spot on.

[Guest HTT II]

6 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

Not sure who it was [I'm think Mark Thomas or Rhod Gilbert] that said "I'll fight for my countr... My cit... My tow... My esta... My flat. I'll fight for my flat", but they were spot on.

Went to a Mark Thomas gig a few years back at the Stand in Newcastle, he was absolutely superb, and I loved his show when it’s was on C4 I think. Love Rhod Gilbert too and hope he recovers well after his health scare, he’s superb too!

[LeeB]

58 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

Should we have refused to accept the FA Cup?

You’ve lost me.

[midds]

Bit late to the party here but I'd be strongly advising against doing anything connected to the Queen. It's not our job or responsibility as fans to 'honour her' and should be left well alone. I'm sure the club will do the necessary things and we can just get on with supporting our football team. Sometimes doing nothing is the right call, this is one of these occasions imo.  

[SteV]

1 hour ago, Happinesstan said:

Not sure who it was [I'm think Mark Thomas or Rhod Gilbert] that said "I'll fight for my countr... My cit... My tow... My esta... My flat. I'll fight for my flat", but they were spot on.

That actually reminds of this clip from Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads:

 

Terry’s rant starts at about 6:35

[Happinesstan]

2 hours ago, HTT II said:

Went to a Mark Thomas gig a few years back at the Stand in Newcastle, he was absolutely superb, and I loved his show when it’s was on C4 I think. Love Rhod Gilbert too and hope he recovers well after his health scare, he’s superb too!

I was on the subs list for tickets to one of his gigs at the Hen and Chicken, no joy so we ended up seeing a comedy troupe including a young Katy Brand.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Something that annoys as many fans as it motivates has to be a no.
 

So no Queen stuff, except maybe a Queen album cover featuring Bruno, Joelinton, Maxi and Isak. 

[Happinesstan]

11 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Something that annoys as many fans as it motivates has to be a no.
 

So no Queen stuff, except maybe a Queen album cover featuring Bruno, Joelinton, Maxi and Isak. 

'It's a kind of fucking magic'

[huss9]

"show must go on."

[RodneyCisse]

Something big for Bournemouth would be good to get the players going before the break.

[Heron]

You boys and girls aren't gonna be happy ?

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Heron

[Jimburst]

Donation rescinded 

[gbandit]

Uh oh