Ciaran Clark (now a free agent)

[Dave]

I feel like we shouldnt always go for simple answers. Ie: He's playing poorly so he's now obviously championship standard again.

 

We saw him playing well for much of the beginning of this season. He played 7 and a bit prem games and only conceded more than 1 goal v spurs with 10 men. Yet now he's not good enough for this level?

 

Context does matter. The context is clearly he's been paired with Lejeune and it's gone pretty woefully. The reason for that is the issue.

 

I don't get the self congratulatory way some base opinions on current form. Oh he's playing badly, I knew he was bad. And hes playing well now, yeah he's a good player. You're literally just doing what the opposition fans or anyone could say.

 

Surely with your own fans, the idea is to consider a players top potential that you've seen and support them to achieve it when they aren't at their best. Like supporting someone not at their best, isn't that the idea of support?

 

Good post.

[Sean]

Tbf I've spoken to more than a few Villa fans working in Birmingham and I would say he was actually pretty liked rather than disliked, at least by the ones who know anything about football.

[TRon]

I feel like we shouldnt always go for simple answers. Ie: He's playing poorly so he's now obviously championship standard again.

 

We saw him playing well for much of the beginning of this season. He played 7 and a bit prem games and only conceded more than 1 goal v spurs with 10 men. Yet now he's not good enough for this level?

 

Context does matter. The context is clearly he's been paired with Lejeune and it's gone pretty woefully. The reason for that is the issue.

 

I don't get the self congratulatory way some base opinions on current form. Oh he's playing badly, I knew he was bad. And hes playing well now, yeah he's a good player. You're literally just doing what the opposition fans or anyone could say.

 

Surely with your own fans, the idea is to consider a players top potential that you've seen and support them to achieve it when they aren't at their best. Like supporting someone not at their best, isn't that the idea of support?

 

You could say the same for Lejeune. I'm happy to support them as players, but obviously we need to sort it out on the pitch because we aren't in a position to carry mistakes.

[Willow]

I feel like we shouldnt always go for simple answers. Ie: He's playing poorly so he's now obviously championship standard again.

 

We saw him playing well for much of the beginning of this season. He played 7 and a bit prem games and only conceded more than 1 goal v spurs with 10 men. Yet now he's not good enough for this level?

 

Context does matter. The context is clearly he's been paired with Lejeune and it's gone pretty woefully. The reason for that is the issue.

 

I don't get the self congratulatory way some base opinions on current form. Oh he's playing badly, I knew he was bad. And hes playing well now, yeah he's a good player. You're literally just doing what the opposition fans or anyone could say.

 

Surely with your own fans, the idea is to consider a players top potential that you've seen and support them to achieve it when they aren't at their best. Like supporting someone not at their best, isn't that the idea of support?

 

Spot on.

[joeyt]

Does Lejeune speak good English? Not sure myself but if not it might go some way to explaining why these 2 look so bad together at the minute?

 

No, he spoke none when he arrived but is learning.

It's a shame he didn't try and learn English when he was contracted to Man City, even if he wasn't playing here

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Every player can go up or down about 50% depending on confidence and form, football is a crazy sport like that.

[Infinitely Content]

I feel like we shouldnt always go for simple answers. Ie: He's playing poorly so he's now obviously championship standard again.

 

We saw him playing well for much of the beginning of this season. He played 7 and a bit prem games and only conceded more than 1 goal v spurs with 10 men. Yet now he's not good enough for this level?

 

Context does matter. The context is clearly he's been paired with Lejeune and it's gone pretty woefully. The reason for that is the issue.

 

I don't get the self congratulatory way some base opinions on current form. Oh he's playing badly, I knew he was bad. And hes playing well now, yeah he's a good player. You're literally just doing what the opposition fans or anyone could say.

 

Surely with your own fans, the idea is to consider a players top potential that you've seen and support them to achieve it when they aren't at their best. Like supporting someone not at their best, isn't that the idea of support?

 

Excellent post.

[Guest firetotheworks]

You know why he doesn't get the same leeway, man.

[Happinesstan]

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I got the impression Jayson's comments applied to every player at the club. Strange that you should use something that reflects the honesty in his post to disagree with him.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

You know why he doesn't get the same leeway, man.

 

No, I don't. Clark has played more than seven games at PL ifs, he's not a kid. He's played more than 130 in fact. That's a huge sample size to judge a footballer on. People act like players only exist when they come here, its absolutely bizzare. I dont want to have to repeat it but CLARK DOES NOT READ NO. So supporting him is limited to games. I've never given one of our players stick at a game, even colback.

 

Eh? I've got no idea what you're talking about there. I was responding to

 

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

[Happinesstan]

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I got the impression Jayson's comments applied to every player at the club. Strange that you should use something that reflects the honesty in his post to disagree with him.

 

Well he called Perez "Absolute w***" in the quote i posted above, so no it doesn't apply.

 

Maybe if you had said "shame Perez doesn't get the same leeway" it would all be relevant and we'd all be sitting here saying just how right you are. As it is you just sound petty.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

You know why he doesn't get the same leeway, man.

 

No, I don't. Clark has played more than seven games at PL ifs, he's not a kid. He's played more than 130 in fact. That's a huge sample size to judge a footballer on. People act like players only exist when they come here, its absolutely bizzare. I dont want to have to repeat it but CLARK DOES NOT READ NO. So supporting him is limited to games. I've never given one of our players stick at a game, even colback.

 

Eh? I've got no idea what you're talking about there. I was responding to

 

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I mean I don't understand it. Logically you'd give the younger less experienced player more leeway to get better/improve? Right?

 

Absolutely, but he doesn't because he's a knacker in combination with needing to get better and improve.

[Guest firetotheworks]

You know why he doesn't get the same leeway, man.

 

No, I don't. Clark has played more than seven games at PL ifs, he's not a kid. He's played more than 130 in fact. That's a huge sample size to judge a footballer on. People act like players only exist when they come here, its absolutely bizzare. I dont want to have to repeat it but CLARK DOES NOT READ NO. So supporting him is limited to games. I've never given one of our players stick at a game, even colback.

 

Eh? I've got no idea what you're talking about there. I was responding to

 

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I mean I don't understand it. Logically you'd give the younger less experienced player more leeway to get better/improve? Right?

 

Absolutely, but he doesn't because he's a knacker in combination with needing to get better and improve.

 

Yeah, thats what I'm getting at though. I'm fine with people wanting to support players and hope they reach a certain level, but there isn't a single player on here who doesn't get stick, and thats just how it is. Suddenly one or two people say maybe Clark excelled in a lower standard of football (very plausible) and its "you should be supporting the players to reach a higher level". I don't get why he's an exception. I thought it was pretty widely accepted on this board that our squad is dire and mostly Championship standard?

 

Ah, I get you. Yeah, that's a fair point.

 

FWIW I think Clark just needs Lascelles a bit of protection in midfield, and a bit of confidence back and he'll be fine. Agree that his career overall hasn't been stellar, which is why I was so against us signing him, but I suppose you could argue that he's earned his leeway because of his performances with us, rather than overall. It's the same reason I took ages to get completely and utterly fed up with Perez, because there was a time when he earned that leeway too.

[Happinesstan]

You know why he doesn't get the same leeway, man.

 

No, I don't. Clark has played more than seven games at PL ifs, he's not a kid. He's played more than 130 in fact. That's a huge sample size to judge a footballer on. People act like players only exist when they come here, its absolutely bizzare. I dont want to have to repeat it but CLARK DOES NOT READ NO. So supporting him is limited to games. I've never given one of our players stick at a game, even colback.

 

Eh? I've got no idea what you're talking about there. I was responding to

 

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I mean I don't understand it. Logically you'd give the younger less experienced player more leeway to get better/improve? Right?

 

Absolutely, but he doesn't because he's a knacker in combination with needing to get better and improve.

 

Yeah, thats what I'm getting at though. I'm fine with people wanting to support players and hope they reach a certain level, but there isn't a single player on here who doesn't get stick, and thats just how it is. Suddenly one or two people say maybe Clark excelled in a lower standard of football (very plausible) and its "you should be supporting the players to reach a higher level". I don't get why he's an exception. I thought it was pretty widely accepted on this board that our squad is dire and mostly Championship standard?

 

I'll be happy if clark reaches the level he was at before Lascelles became injured. That is dependant on Lascelles returning. If he is still shite then I will begin to worry. I think it's clear that both Clark and Lejeune require somebody like Lascelles bedside them in order to play comfortably. And thus playing them both together is asking for trouble.

 

 

[Happinesstan]

In the early games Clark and Lascelles formed a respectable premiership defensive partnership. I would say neither are Premiership standard defenders, Lascelles has the potential still but needs a partner he can trust to maintain his confidence. Clark is struggling because he's playing with himself. Oo-er. missus.

[Kanj]

Play Clark as a LB or play Dummet there.

[Jayson]

Strange how Mitrovic despite being much younger and far less PL games to judge on doesn't get the same leeway.

 

I got the impression Jayson's comments applied to every player at the club. Strange that you should use something that reflects the honesty in his post to disagree with him.

 

Well he called Perez "Absolute w***" in the quote i posted above, so no it doesn't apply.

 

Just to clarify it does. You're quoting a post a few mins after we lost to Burnley. I'm not expecting people to not have a pure rant period and just happily talk about players potential after they've seen them be useless for 90 mins

 

Just that after that you have a come down and get back into normal discussion. I've given Clark bollockings aswell, but he can clearly play better & has recently. Perez can also, but he's been less consistent.

[Away Day Gadgie]

Quality piece of play to start the move for Diame's goal ?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Not having Lascelles next to him has knocked his confidence and rhythm and he's struggled, that and being dropped for a game or two. He's a good defender, but ideally long-term along with most of them we need an upgrade. He'd be a decent squad player.

[Interpolic]

Quality piece of play to start the move for Diame's goal [emoji106]

Was really good.

 

On the negative side he was totally skinned by Arnautovic for their first.

 

Regardless, looks much better with Lascelles.

[Away Day Gadgie]

Quality piece of play to start the move for Diame's goal [emoji106]

Was really good.

 

On the negative side he was totally skinned by Arnautovic for their first.

 

Regardless, looks much better with Lascelles.

 

He was, but i don't think that's too much of a disgrace.  He was left 1 on 1 with Arnautovic who is a powerful runner and can go either side so it was hard for him.  I think he tried to slow him down until we got some numbers back bit there was too much space for Arnautovic to run into.  Only a top class defender would've stopped him IMO.

[Interpolic]

Quality piece of play to start the move for Diame's goal [emoji106]

Was really good.

 

On the negative side he was totally skinned by Arnautovic for their first.

 

Regardless, looks much better with Lascelles.

 

He was, but i don't think that's too much of a disgrace.  He was left 1 on 1 with Arnautovic who is a powerful runner and can go either side so it was hard for him.  I think he tried to slow him down until we got some numbers back bit there was too much space for Arnautovic to run into.  Only a top class defender would've stopped him IMO.

Yeah I think that's fair, not sure there was much more he could have done given his ability

[Heron]

Think it's harsh to say he was totally skinned there like. If he commits, he gets done and if he doesn't and jockeys him he at least might get bodies in behind to help cover. I'd fully expect that of CB in that position he just maybe should have got half a yard tighter. Think it was good positive play from Arnautovic more than anything. The sort of quality we lack up top.

[Away Day Gadgie]

Think it's harsh to say he was totally skinned there like. If he commits, he gets done and if he doesn't and jockeys him he at least might get bodies in behind to help cover. I'd fully expect that of CB in that position he just maybe should have got half a yard tighter. Think it was good positive play from Arnautovic more than anything. The sort of quality we lack up top.

 

I thought that at the time.  Frustratingly, it was the kind of play we used to see from Perez but he doesn't seem to be able to run at defenders these days.

[Disco]