Other clubs' transfers

[woody]

3 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Most will be freelance who will scout for other clubs, but will get maybe more coin if they recommend a player to one particular club over the other if that player gets signed. Not many clubs have a dedicated in house scouting team. I wish Mandoon was around he could maybe clarify. Many clubs will work with agents first or most over scouts for example as well. It’s hard to tell with Man Utd though, their recruitment has been shocking for a club of their size, stature, prestige and the money they can pay in transfer fess and offer in wages.

Michael Calvin wrote a pretty good book about the scouting industry a few years back called The Nowhere Men. It's more than likely a bit out of date by now, but thought it was an interesting glimpse in to the area.

[Guest HTT II]

I’ve got a bit of experience with scouts at academy level and most of them are fucking clueless, haven’t played the game at all or much or to any decent standard , but clubs use them because they support whoever club is using them and have loads of free time on their hands to watch loads of kids’ football. Most have a set criteria, if a kid is fast, scores lots of goals or is huge, they make a recommendation, if a kid is all 3, bingo. Most of these scouts get kids into academies not for what they know, but for who they know.
 

They may know an academy coach very well, or an ex player, or their wife may cut the hair of the wife or partner of a current player. The whole system in England at certain levels of football is a shambles and it’s easy to see why so many clubs get it wrong with academy players, managerial appointments and signings. Look at us, Pardew, totally unqualified for the job, but is mate’s with Ashley’s mate. Bruce is a Geordie, cheap, a yes man, if you offer him the job he’ll leave whoever he’s employed by at the drop of a hat.

 

It’s about time professional clubs employed professional scouts, and invest in the right tools available. I look at some of the stuff posted on here in the form of stats from random people on Twitter for example who know way more than a lot of managers and certainly some 50 year old former bin man purporting to be a scout, or some ex player who will recommend a manager or a kid or a player because he feels he knows the craic as he used to play professionally.

 

That’s why I’m over the moon wor very own Mandoon seems to have found himself a job as a professional scout, he knows more than Steve fucking 1000 + games Bruce for fuck’s sake. We need more like that and I hope and I’m sure we will in the future have an elite scouting system, elite scouting tools for them and everything else needed behind the scenes.

 

Its a joke really that a club like Man Utd have basically wasted over a billion quid and shown fuck all for it, or Bruce has managed over 1000 games or dross like Andy Carroll flops at LFC having cost 35m and another club goes and pays 18m for him and then he ends up back here on a free, a crock, it’s obscene and it’s us fans whose pockets are emptied the most to finance all of this obscenity.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by HTT II

[Guest HTT II]

As an example, Drew Beardsley is chief scout at NUFC for the under 9s I think, he’s never played footy in his life, not properly anyway, he just stands and watches, no data, no analysis, then has meetings with other scouts and goes, I like that kid, let’s give him a trial. 12 weeks later, he’s not very good, bye. And we all know how he got the job. Thankfully we have some of the best academy coaches at this level and they know what they are doing. But often they are having to try and polish a turd and make do with. That’s what Man Utd are operating at right now 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by HTT II

[Lotus]

7 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

When I google search "Pogba attitude" - it's just the likes of Souness & Barnes complaining and a few saying his attitude is actually good.

 

Search "Rabiot attitude" and there's a long list of actual controversies throughout his career.

I’ve no idea about Pogba’s off-field demeanour. I certainly wouldn’t jump to a conclusion that’ he’s difficult or disruptive. I’ve absolutely no idea so it wouldn’t even cross my mind.

What does spring to mind though was his application when France won the WC. He was everywhere. Defending in his box, breaking up play in MF, closing down the opposition, driving the ball forward. He was absolutely great.

Then I think about his frankly limp performances for Manu, it’s like 2 completely different players. 
No idea why, I’m sure Froggy might say he was absolutely fantastic for them, I thought he was a stunning disappointment.

I won’t speculate as to what were contributing factors to his vacuous performances for his previous club, but at some level a professional sports person has to be accountable for their substandard play.

[toon25]

Really interesting posts HTT

 

[buzza]

As an example to show the difference I can see comparing it to north of spain:

Over here in bilbao they have a very good academy. And the kids teams from 9 years old up to 18 years all have scouts who can tell you the best players in literally every school and club team in the whole region.

Even the so called feeder teams (think wallsend boys - at least many moons ago, couldnt say now 30 years later) have scouts who know just about every player in their respective leagues.

Was really surprised at the level of knowledge and tracking they do on thousands of kids!

Know this as my own lad plays (16yrs).

[Guest HTT II]

Those kids paraded at home against Arsenal I think it was, our under 9s, I know most of them and their parents, we have some of the best youngsters at that age group and coached by for me a top young coach and in an ideal world they will all make it and if not one of them will. If not, they will have had an amazing experience on their journey. I think the club are planning in the long run to start turning volunteers and part time scouts and coaches into full time, fully paid, fully qualified and professional scouts and coaches at every level, the girls and women’s teams too!

[OCK]

22 minutes ago, HTT II said:

I’ve got a bit of experience with scouts at academy level and most of them are fucking clueless

 

They're all middle-aged to old blokes that have creepily watched grassroots football all their lives and had a friend at the club back in the 80s. 

[buzza]

PS. That’s the reason I was so adamant at not signing dodgy full backs from atletico madrid! Watch a lot of spanish football…

[buzza]

1 minute ago, HTT II said:

Those kids paraded at home against Arsenal I think it was, our under 9s, I know most of them and their parents, we have some of the best youngsters at that age group and coached by for me a top young coach and in an ideal world they will all make it and if not one of them will. If not, they will have had an amazing experience on their journey. I think the club are planning in the long run to start turning volunteers and part time scouts and coaches into full time, fully paid, fully qualified and professional scouts and coaches at every level, the girls and women’s teams too!

I think the rate at which the top league players (kids up to >18) make it into professional or semi professional football is only about 1%.

That make it into the top sides about 5% of the above.

In short: forget about making it via footy
 

[OCK]

2 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Those kids paraded at home against Arsenal I think it was, our under 9s, I know most of them and their parents, we have some of the best youngsters at that age group and coached by for me a top young coach and in an ideal world they will all make it and if not one of them will. If not, they will have had an amazing experience on their journey. I think the club are planning in the long run to start turning volunteers and part time scouts and coaches into full time, fully paid, fully qualified and professional scouts and coaches at every level, the girls and women’s teams too!

 

I believe the plan is to have a Newcastle 'coach' embedded within each 'decent' community club. Hopefully this means having a paid 'professional' in place will provide community clubs with a mentor/tutor when it comes to coaching, as well as someone decent to spot potential talent. 

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, buzza said:

As an example to show the difference I can see comparing it to north of spain:

Over here in bilbao they have a very good academy. And the kids teams from 9 years old up to 18 years all have scouts who can tell you the best players in literally every school and club team in the whole region.

Even the so called feeder teams (think wallsend boys - at least many moons ago, couldnt say now 30 years later) have scouts who know just about every player in their respective leagues.

Was really surprised at the level of knowledge and tracking they do on thousands of kids!

Know this as my own lad plays (16yrs).

Many a scout here will go and just watch a kid affiliated with their own club who will be in a development or elite squad and do shitty reports back, they don’t consider the other kids unless a kid absolutely stands out. Me if I’m a pro club whose own investment into kids will run into the millions over a few year period if they are tied to your club, I’d be reporting on everything, collating data constantly, watching every game, every kid even, because I’ve seen and know of plenty of kids who at 9 looked absolute shit and turned into something special at 12 or 15 or whatever and vice versa, a kid looking great at 9 and turning to shit a few years later. It’s just common sense to want to know the ins and out of every league, game, those playing and to have the right tools to make greater use of such info to one day unearth another Messi or at least - which should be the ultimate aim - to develop talented footballers for the future. No club should be thinking, oh, I like that player from whoever and think let’s spend 100m on him when the true aim should be to develop a 100m player in house. Sorry for the rants ha ha!

[OCK]

 

 

MODS MODS MODS THEY'RE NOT USING THE CORRECT THREAD OMG BAN THEM ALL

 

Reported you all. Enjoy your stay in the gulag watching Alan Pardew's Masterclass videos on youtube. 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by OCK

[buzza]

Just looked online (spain):

from every 1.800 kids playing federated football (registered and insured) only 1 will make it to a professional team (top 3 divisions)

[Guest HTT II]

2 minutes ago, OCK said:

 

I believe the plan is to have a Newcastle 'coach' embedded within each 'decent' community club. Hopefully this means having a paid 'professional' in place will provide community clubs with a mentor/tutor when it comes to coaching, as well as someone decent to spot potential talent. 

Rafa wanted the club to set up a coaching hub at NUFC so the club would put on coaching classes (or coaching camps) for coaches in the grassroots game I do know that which rather like the club snapping up talented youngsters, could maybe one day snap up a talented coach too. He’s a firm believer you don’t have had to have played the game to a high standard or even at all to be a good coach or to understand football, that’s why he related to fans. He said LFC and NUFC fans understood football better than him and that’s why he knew we’d be patient, understanding and accept certain things like a heavy defeat or a dodgy result or bad performance. God I fucking love Rafa. 

[OCK]

3 minutes ago, buzza said:

Just looked online (spain):

from every 1.800 kids playing federated football (registered and insured) only 1 will make it to a professional team (top 3 divisions)

 

Less than 0.1% in the England. I can't remember the exact number (but it's lower than that)

 

  

1 minute ago, HTT II said:

Rafa wanted the club to set up a coaching hub at NUFC so the club would put on coaching classes (or coaching camps) for coaches in the grassroots game I do know that which rather like the club snapping up talented youngsters, could maybe one day snap up a talented coach too. He’s a firm believer you don’t have had to have played the game to a high standard or even at all to be a good coach or to understand football, that’s why he related to fans. He said LFC and NUFC fans understood football better than him and that’s why he knew we’d be patient, understanding and accept certain things like a heavy defeat or a dodgy result or bad performance. God I fucking love Rafa. 

 

Gary Middleton at Northumberland FA rebooted the old Coach the Coach Neil Winskill started a decade ago. He's hammered it over the last 12 months, been really good with some top level talent doing CPD. Lloyd Miller has been doing Lionesses, which focuses on the W&G game too. It's all very good and deserves more attention. 

 

https://www.northumberlandfa.com/coaches/coach-the-coach

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by OCK

[Mikky]

56 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

I'm sure I heard Neville say over the weekend that they've got about 60 scouts. It's either the easiest gig ever or the most frustrating.

I think Brighton have hundreds of scouts all over the world - find us a play and you get a little cut of the deal 

[Guest HTT II]

11 minutes ago, OCK said:

 

They're all middle-aged to old blokes that have creepily watched grassroots football all their lives and had a friend at the club back in the 80s. 

They do all look like nonces mind a lot of them 

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, OCK said:

 

Less than 0.1% in the England. I can't remember the exact number (but it's lower than that)

The bar is so high, for elite level anyway, but there needs to be a higher number of kids that forge a career in the game as a professional even if it’s league whatever, or as a coach, a fitness instructor, a scout, given they put in the hardest and longest hours of anyone often from as young an age as 3. Imagine you go from 3 to 21 and get released, where every day you’ve pretty much dedicated everything to your sport and for no pay whatsoever, where your parents and family have sacrificed everything too. That’s what I love about Gateshead FC, they promise a route back into the sport for all academy players if they can help it, as do most non league or non pro clubs. It sickens me that so much money goes outside of the game and clubs like Man Utd waste over a billion on shit players mostly while grassroots football has to apply for grants or get parents to fund raise or beg councils to use a crappy shitty fields which dog walkers complain about. 

[Guest HTT II]

Anyway, back to other clubs’ transfers….

 

Looks like Man Utd are desperate to pull a Rabiot out of the hat during this window!

[Kid Icarus]

Man United going for Arnautovic is satirical like. Can only imagine that the reaction among fans is like a nuclear version of when we signed Sibierski.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[gbandit]

He could be their Shefki Kuqi. I hope Man U get some new coaches in as they’re obviously struggling, I’d recommend Djibril Cisse, El Hadji Diouf and Lee Cattermole if they want to build squad harmony

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Man United going for Arnautovic is satirical like. Can only imagine that the reaction among fans is like a nuclear version of when we signed Sibierski.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't describe it as nuclear. It's just dejection. I think I just sighed loudly and thought to myself, "so this is how it is now."

[54]

 

[STM]

16 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I wouldn't describe it as nuclear. It's just dejection. I think I just sighed loudly and thought to myself, "so this is how it is now."

 

I can't even laugh anymore.

 

It's actually quite shocking to see how owners in this country can chip away at the institutions that we hold so dear. Its like watching Mike Ashley on steroids.

 

It's clear now that SAF was holding the club together in the first years of the glazers.

 

To see Man United in such a mess doesn't bring satisfaction because if truth be told, I'd rather they were winning the league than a Chelsea.

 

They aren't even just average owners, they are terrible owners. When Brighton and Brentford have clear plans in place but Man United don't, there's something seriously amiss.

 

There's a million names who wouldn't have cost a fortune, that Man United could have turned to in this window. Boubakar Kamara for example. Its an absolute shitshow and I'm sympathetic to any fan going through it because we were there a year ago.

 

It doesn't matter if you are Man U or Carlisle, you just want to see a plan, a vision, something to get behind.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by STM