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Greg

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Froggy

Froggy

Posted
Posted
Just now, KennyUtd said:

Unless he's quoting what Man U players are earning Froggy. 

According to you most of your 1st team squad are on £24.50 a week and a free bus pass.

 

Nope, I just use whatever figures are reported, usually from Capology. For us and every other club. That seems quite fair to me. 

 

The only time I'd say anything different is if it's directly reported by someone like Laurie Whitwell. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, leffe186 said:


Well that makes a lot more sense. If you really think that, then I get why you went down that line.

 

We absolutely did not only “box clever with player trading”. Levy came in as Chairman after ENIC bought the club and realized that to compete with the top teams he had to tear it all down and build it up. I remember being at the first game in 2004 - it was almost an entirely new squad and we were just trying to work out who everyone was. Pretty much everyone from the previous season had been released or free transferred away. We signed a ton of cheap youngsters and players from the lower leagues and abroad. Our wage bill was £25M that year. He brought in Frank Arnesen to be a DoF (our first IIRC) and completely revamped the youth and backstage teams, totally new scouting teams etc. That was the Santini/Jol year.

 

The wage bill had been stripped to the bone and would stay that way for a while. Everyone was on bonus-led contracts. We were saving money so that we could revamp other things - in 2007 we bought land for a new Training ground which was finished in 2012 or thereabouts, and obviously we were also saving and planning for a new stadium. 
 

As fans, it was exciting but also frustrating. Frank Arnesen immediately got poached by Chelsea. We’d get raided by bigger clubs regularly - Keane, Carrick, Berba early on, Modric, Bale, Kyle Walker etc later on. We lost out on a ton of players due to wages and Levy being tight, not to mention Chelsea’s shenanigans that just got them a slap on the wrist over Eden Hazard etc. We also were paying through the nose (although by this time I was out of London so no season ticket) for the privilege, being reassured by Levy “no pain, no gain”.

 

So (IIRC isn’t that one of your Pet Hates, starting a sentence with So? :lol:) yeah, we did operate within PSR criteria, and it was often really irritating and tough. If we’d got to where we are by ENIC giving us a billion pounds and buying tons of players - or even just by “clever player trading” I wouldn’t be in here having these arguments. It took us 8 years or so to build a new training ground, over a decade to build a really good squad, and  15 years to build a new stadium.

 

Could we do exactly that now? I dunno. The first year the Saudis came in you got Bruno, Chris Wood, Willock, Burn, Trippier. The next year you got Isak, Gordon, Botman, Targett and Pope. In contrast, back in 2004 we brought in eighteen players, and the highest spend of them all was £8M on Andy Reid and Michael Dawson from Forest. Everyone’s got more TV money now and there’s so much more risk involved. We’d probably be able to spend more for starters. Your Saudi money will accelerate things massively.

 

Success is obviously not a matter of waiting, although it often feels like it’s all we can do as fans. 

Appreciate the detail, but the original incarnation of Premier League FFP started in 2013...whatever else you did to increase revenue is all still crucially prior to the start of that, you were an established CL/Europa regular by then. 

 

You saying that Spurs have become the club they are now by working within those rules (never mind the stricter ones we have now) just isn't true.

 

And - I shied away from saying this earlier because it sounds like I'm being a dick :lol: - but your success has been mostly financial. Spurs are a bit of a 'junior partner' in the big 6 and haven't actually really been successful in terms of honours.

 

 

Edited by Kid Icarus

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KennyUtd

KennyUtd

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Nope, I just use whatever figures are reported, usually from Capology. For us and every other club. That seems quite fair to me. 

 

The only time I'd say anything different is if it's directly reported by someone like Laurie Whitwell. 

😆😉

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Optimistic Nut

Optimistic Nut

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Nope, I just use whatever figures are reported, usually from Capology. For us and every other club. That seems quite fair to me. 

 

The only time I'd say anything different is if it's directly reported by someone like Laurie Whitwell. 

 

Capology is pointless for football man. :lol:

 

They had Fraser Forster as Bournemouth's training keeper on £40k a week last season. 

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leffe186

leffe186

Posted
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Appreciate the detail, but the original incarnation of Premier League FFP started in 2013...whatever else you did to increase revenue is all still crucially prior to the start of that, you were an established CL/Europa regular by then. 

 

You saying that Spurs have become the club they are now by working within those rules (never mind the stricter ones we have now) just isn't true.

 

And - I shied away from saying this earlier because it sounds like I'm being a dick - but your success has been mostly financial. Spurs are a bit of a 'junior partner' in the big 6 and haven't actually really been successful in terms of honours.

 

 

 


I meant everything we did was within any of those parameters, before they were rules. That might not be the case, but you’d have to tell me how because I can’t see it. We were consistently making a profit and our wage bill was a small percentage of our turnover…because it had to be - that’s how we generated the money to make the off-field improvements and make the stadium project viable.

 

We’ve gone over the Big 6 thing a million times. I couldn’t care less if we’re considered “big 6” or not, but I definitely want to be consistently in the top six of the Premier League. Which we were from 2010-2020 until COVID and Levy’s hubris. We still then got 8th, 4th, 7th, 5th before it caught up with Levy.
 

Cartel 6 is fair enough because Levy was a prime driver of FFP/PSR - because he didn’t want all his and our work of the previous 10/15 years to be rendered pointless. Cartel 6 is also justifiable because he was involved in the pathetic ESL crap, which we like all fans were disgusted with (https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/tottenham-fans-protest-daniel-levy-20606898 - warning, it’s nearly as shitty a site as the Chronicle). However, Cartel 6 in the context of refereeing decisions is where I draw the line. I fucking wish we were  that :lol:. Thankfully we’ve fucked Levy off now, although the ESL stain lingers.

 

 

Edited by leffe186

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Froggy

Froggy

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Capology is pointless for football man. :lol:

 

They had Fraser Forster as Bournemouth's training keeper on £40k a week last season. 

 

It may be, but certainly in our case it never seems far away from what is reported by our tier 1 sources. 

 

I see it as being at least slightly more reliable than say Optimistic Nut on Newcastle Online. :lol:

We need to use something as a guide. I think it's as good as any as all it does is go by media reports and collate the information. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, leffe186 said:


I meant everything we did was within any of those parameters, before they were rules. That might not be the case, but you’d have to tell me how because I can’t see it. We were consistently making a profit and our wage bill was a small percentage of our turnover…because it had to be - that’s how we generated the money to make the off-field improvements and make the stadium project viable.

 

We’ve gone over the Big 6 thing a million times. I couldn’t care less if we’re considered “big 6” or not, but I definitely want to be consistently in the top six of the Premier League. Which we were from 2010-2020 until COVID and Levy’s hubris. We still then got 8th, 4th, 7th, 5th before it caught up with Levy.
 

Cartel 6 is fair enough because Levy was a prime driver of FFP/PSR - because he didn’t want all his and our work of the previous 10/15 years to be rendered pointless. Cartel 6 is also justifiable because he was involved in the pathetic ESL crap, which we like all fans were disgusted with (https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/tottenham-fans-protest-daniel-levy-20606898 - warning, it’s nearly as shitty a site as the Chronicle). However, Cartel 6 in the context of refereeing decisions is where I draw the line. I fucking wish we were  that :lol:. Thankfully we’ve fucked Levy off now, although the ESL stain lingers.

 

If you meant you'd have complied with the 2013 rules had they existed, fair enough, but would you have been able to right off your stadium depreciation into your calculation with the upcoming rules? 

 

Levy did lobby for those FFP rules based around his own running of Spurs as well,  not for the good of the game but because it gave them a strategic advantage - not just because they'd already used their model to financial success, but because it removed other methods for financial success and put other clubs in a straight jackets that said that this is how it's done, ignoring that Spurs appear to be a pre-PSR exception to the rule who while balancing the books, getting Champions League, and being a financial success, are still seen as the junior member of the big 6 because it hasn't really resulted in honours - something that further undermines any notion of meritocracy or "pull" when you're looking at players.

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joeyt

joeyt

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

Oh look, Villa are wanting to sell Morgan Rogers to balance the books. Who'd have thought it, after qualifying for the Champions League :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

Football is so shit these days

 

Villa shouldn't have to sell one of their best players to balance the books after their most successful season for decades

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Nobody

Nobody

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

It may be, but certainly in our case it never seems far away from what is reported by our tier 1 sources. 

 

I see it as being at least slightly more reliable than say Optimistic Nut on Newcastle Online. :lol:

 

We need to use something as a guide. I think it's as good as any as all it does is go by media reports and collate the information. 

Wages are covered in the annual report, I'm sure that's a bit more reliable than what Froggy says on Newcastle Online :lol:

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