Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Stop it man

 

I’d love him back, I’d buy a fucking box

[Greg]

From the Athletic piece I’ve posted in the Ashley thread;

 

At Sports Direct headquarters, Rafa Benitez was in full flow. In typical style, this most meticulous of managers had studied Newcastle’s last published accounts, their commercial and match-day income, and had married them with his first-hand knowledge of the club. He was now making a presentation to Ashley. The gist: this is how we can succeed as a football team and this is how you can turn a profit.

 

Benitez was trying. He is not a naturally clubbable man, but he is pretty decent at his job. A year on from relegation, Newcastle had been promoted to the Premier League as champions for the 2017-18 season. There had been some tension in January when Benitez’s attempts to strengthen his squad hit a buffer, but he remained convinced that progress — namely, the top eight — was possible “if we do things right”. Those five words became an anguished mantra.

 

This was early summer, 2017. “Rafa had all the details,” one person familiar with the conversation tells The Athletic. “He talked at length about the balance between making money and competing as a team, about how you make a difference in the transfer market. He said you can’t have a chief scout in Graham Carr who was 72 and supposedly didn’t use a computer when you pay all these companies to furnish you with sophisticated statistics about players.

 

“He talked about creating a structure, a proper scouting department that follows players, collates all the information. He talked about how difficult it was in the Premier League, so you have to work quicker, work smarter, but you can still be profitable. You could tell Ashley was impressed because he turned to Lee Charnley, Newcastle’s managing director, and told him: ‘He’s right — the numbers are right’.”

 

They got down to the nitty-gritty of budgets. Benitez would be furnished with £70 million over two years, plus whatever he could generate himself. They spoke about details. If Benitez wanted to use that budget to buy one player for £50 million, did he need to consult with Ashley? Yeah, for a transfer that big. But if it’s five players for £10 million each, “then you and Lee can do it,” he was told.

 

That June, Carr left Newcastle by “mutual consent”. As well as identifying signings like Yohan Cabaye and Moussa Sissoko, the Geordie was close to Ashley, but the power base was shifting. Newcastle’s model — young players of value but often “rascals,” according to one ex-manager — had contributed to their demotion and Benitez was now in charge. His first target: Willy Caballero, the goalkeeper, available on a free from Manchester City.

 

Newcastle already had four senior keepers on their books. The club did nothing. Benitez, who didn’t just want another body but someone who would change the way his side played, waited and fumed. Caballero joined Chelsea. Trust was cracked and that crack became a schism, the starting point for the manager’s departure at the end of his contract last summer, when he complained in a column for The Athletic of “three years of unfulfilled promises”.

 

The meeting at Shirebrook is a small anecdote, but in many ways it characterises Ashley’s 13 years at St James’ Park. His ownership has not taken Newcastle to the brink of financial oblivion. They are in the Premier League, which leads some observers to point out that things could be worse, yet his tenure has been peppered with sliding-door moments and toxic outcomes. Benitez was a Champions League winner, a garlanded coach and a genuine chance for the club to kick on. When it mattered most, he was ignored.

 

Not surprised at any of that but it’s yet another example of why this deal needs to happen.

 

Tin hat on, but if Chelsea are in for a player, it's difficult for us to compete.

 

But you miss the point entirely. Chelsea weren't even in for him. Rafa and his team had agreed pretty much everything with him, handed it over to Lee Charnley to get it done and he did nothing. Literally did nothing. A number of weeks later he signed for Chelsea to sit on their bench and play a few cup games.

 

It's not about him picking Chelsea over us, it didn't come to that. It was as good as done. It's about the broken promises - the same s*** Keegan had to deal with. Promise one thing, do another.

 

I don't know where that information comes from, but it's not very convincing. You say that 'Rafa and his team had agreed pretty much everything with him', but negotiations with players were Charnley's responsibility, not his. And a player nearing the end of his contract has every incentive to keep all his options open for as long as possible. He can say 'yes, I'm interested' to as many clubs as he wants.

 

Caballero would have been 36, coming to the end of his career, so a final big pay day with Chelsea and the prospect of at least some European football might well have been more attractive than what we had to offer at that time. Plus London is often a bigger draw for a player, or their spouse.

 

You are still missing the point. It isn't about picking Chelsea and the bench over playing at NUFC - that choice was never available. It's about the club doing nothing. Rafa and his team lined it up (in so far as they could and this is pretty normal in football) and the powers that be at NUFC did nothing. Didn't even try. Didn't even say no to Rafa. Just did fuck all. Mislead Rafa, undermined him. Like they (different people, same common denominator) did to Keegan. It wouldn't have been hard in both instances to say no to the manger. No we will not sanction any sort of deal for that player. But no, obfuscate, mislead, frustrate. The modus operandi under Ashley.

 

“Because there’s no trust there.

“There’s no trust there because from day one they’ve been misled.

“Having worked with Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias – you just can’t work with these people.”

“You can’t trust them,”

“They tell you one thing, they mean another.

“I had a phone call for about an hour to buy a player. After I went off the phone, they [the board] had another conference call together and said ‘right, we don’t want to offer £2m, we offer £1m’, they’ll reject it and that’s it.”

 

“After three years of unfulfilled promises' date=' I didn’t trust them.”[/quote']

 

 

[Cronky]

From the Athletic piece I’ve posted in the Ashley thread;

 

At Sports Direct headquarters, Rafa Benitez was in full flow. In typical style, this most meticulous of managers had studied Newcastle’s last published accounts, their commercial and match-day income, and had married them with his first-hand knowledge of the club. He was now making a presentation to Ashley. The gist: this is how we can succeed as a football team and this is how you can turn a profit.

 

Benitez was trying. He is not a naturally clubbable man, but he is pretty decent at his job. A year on from relegation, Newcastle had been promoted to the Premier League as champions for the 2017-18 season. There had been some tension in January when Benitez’s attempts to strengthen his squad hit a buffer, but he remained convinced that progress — namely, the top eight — was possible “if we do things right”. Those five words became an anguished mantra.

 

This was early summer, 2017. “Rafa had all the details,” one person familiar with the conversation tells The Athletic. “He talked at length about the balance between making money and competing as a team, about how you make a difference in the transfer market. He said you can’t have a chief scout in Graham Carr who was 72 and supposedly didn’t use a computer when you pay all these companies to furnish you with sophisticated statistics about players.

 

“He talked about creating a structure, a proper scouting department that follows players, collates all the information. He talked about how difficult it was in the Premier League, so you have to work quicker, work smarter, but you can still be profitable. You could tell Ashley was impressed because he turned to Lee Charnley, Newcastle’s managing director, and told him: ‘He’s right — the numbers are right’.”

 

They got down to the nitty-gritty of budgets. Benitez would be furnished with £70 million over two years, plus whatever he could generate himself. They spoke about details. If Benitez wanted to use that budget to buy one player for £50 million, did he need to consult with Ashley? Yeah, for a transfer that big. But if it’s five players for £10 million each, “then you and Lee can do it,” he was told.

 

That June, Carr left Newcastle by “mutual consent”. As well as identifying signings like Yohan Cabaye and Moussa Sissoko, the Geordie was close to Ashley, but the power base was shifting. Newcastle’s model — young players of value but often “rascals,” according to one ex-manager — had contributed to their demotion and Benitez was now in charge. His first target: Willy Caballero, the goalkeeper, available on a free from Manchester City.

 

Newcastle already had four senior keepers on their books. The club did nothing. Benitez, who didn’t just want another body but someone who would change the way his side played, waited and fumed. Caballero joined Chelsea. Trust was cracked and that crack became a schism, the starting point for the manager’s departure at the end of his contract last summer, when he complained in a column for The Athletic of “three years of unfulfilled promises”.

 

The meeting at Shirebrook is a small anecdote, but in many ways it characterises Ashley’s 13 years at St James’ Park. His ownership has not taken Newcastle to the brink of financial oblivion. They are in the Premier League, which leads some observers to point out that things could be worse, yet his tenure has been peppered with sliding-door moments and toxic outcomes. Benitez was a Champions League winner, a garlanded coach and a genuine chance for the club to kick on. When it mattered most, he was ignored.

 

Not surprised at any of that but it’s yet another example of why this deal needs to happen.

 

Tin hat on, but if Chelsea are in for a player, it's difficult for us to compete.

 

But you miss the point entirely. Chelsea weren't even in for him. Rafa and his team had agreed pretty much everything with him, handed it over to Lee Charnley to get it done and he did nothing. Literally did nothing. A number of weeks later he signed for Chelsea to sit on their bench and play a few cup games.

 

It's not about him picking Chelsea over us, it didn't come to that. It was as good as done. It's about the broken promises - the same s*** Keegan had to deal with. Promise one thing, do another.

 

I don't know where that information comes from, but it's not very convincing. You say that 'Rafa and his team had agreed pretty much everything with him', but negotiations with players were Charnley's responsibility, not his. And a player nearing the end of his contract has every incentive to keep all his options open for as long as possible. He can say 'yes, I'm interested' to as many clubs as he wants.

 

Caballero would have been 36, coming to the end of his career, so a final big pay day with Chelsea and the prospect of at least some European football might well have been more attractive than what we had to offer at that time. Plus London is often a bigger draw for a player, or their spouse.

 

You are still missing the point. It isn't about picking Chelsea and the bench over playing at NUFC - that choice was never available. It's about the club doing nothing. Rafa and his team lined it up (in so far as they could and this is pretty normal in football) and the powers that be at NUFC did nothing. Didn't even try. Didn't even say no to Rafa. Just did fuck all. Mislead Rafa, undermined him. Like they (different people, same common denominator) did to Keegan. It wouldn't have been hard in both instances to say no to the manger. No we will not sanction any sort of deal for that player. But no, obfuscate, mislead, frustrate. The modus operandi under Ashley.

 

“Because there’s no trust there.

“There’s no trust there because from day one they’ve been misled.

“Having worked with Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias – you just can’t work with these people.”

“You can’t trust them,”

“They tell you one thing, they mean another.

“I had a phone call for about an hour to buy a player. After I went off the phone, they [the board] had another conference call together and said ‘right, we don’t want to offer £2m, we offer £1m’, they’ll reject it and that’s it.”

 

“After three years of unfulfilled promises' date=' I didn’t trust them.”[/quote']

 

 

 

With respect, I think you're missing the point. Lots of stories about football clubs appear in the media, but they're not all 100% reliable. If you're convinced by this Caballero story, that's up to you. I suspect there are a few details missing.

[Paully]

 

You are still missing the point. It isn't about picking Chelsea and the bench over playing at NUFC - that choice was never available. It's about the club doing nothing. Rafa and his team lined it up (in so far as they could and this is pretty normal in football) and the powers that be at NUFC did nothing. Didn't even try. Didn't even say no to Rafa. Just did fuck all. Mislead Rafa, undermined him. Like they (different people, same common denominator) did to Keegan. It wouldn't have been hard in both instances to say no to the manger. No we will not sanction any sort of deal for that player. But no, obfuscate, mislead, frustrate. The modus operandi under Ashley.

 

“Because there’s no trust there.

“There’s no trust there because from day one they’ve been misled.

“Having worked with Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias – you just can’t work with these people.”

“You can’t trust them,”

“They tell you one thing, they mean another.

“I had a phone call for about an hour to buy a player. After I went off the phone, they [the board] had another conference call together and said ‘right, we don’t want to offer £2m, we offer £1m’, they’ll reject it and that’s it.”

 

“After three years of unfulfilled promises' date=' I didn’t trust them.”[/quote']

 

 

 

100000% spot on mate!

 

Rafa was messed about on many occasions by Ashley and his dickhead cronies!  Townsend, Abraham, Loftus-Cheek to name a few others!

 

There was no trust which is exactly what happened to KK!

 

[Yorkie]

The second half of that season would have been hilarious if we'd got Abraham, Loftus-Cheek and Townsend. We'd have probably won every game 10-0.

[huss9]

thought it was townsend, loftus-cheek and delph he was after?

[Sean]

Isn't Cronky the troll who only used to come on to slag Rafa off? Clueless. He even knows he's talking bollocks himself.

[NEEJ]

I don't think he does. We'd still be watching Colback and Sammy Ameobi if he had his way.

[Paully]

[toon25]

Loads of pitches for Paully D to lump it into there.

[toontownman]

Wow what Rafa can achieve in 10 months? It is almost as though he had nothing to do with it and all this was in motion before he was appointed.

Not that he wouldn't want something similar for us of course.

 

 

[Yorkie]

<a href="https://ibb.co/9vr6zqy"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/59Rmt5s/Screenshot-20200506-225414-Facebook-2.jpg" alt="Screenshot-20200506-225414-Facebook-2" border="0"></a><br />

<a href="https://ibb.co/7KbZQjh"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/5L2SkGZ/Screenshot-20200506-225422-Facebook-2.jpg" alt="Screenshot-20200506-225422-Facebook-2" border="0"></a>

 

<a href="https://ibb.co/DDXJgZ4"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Y79CTx2/Screenshot-20200506-225432-Facebook-2.jpg" alt="Screenshot-20200506-225432-Facebook-2" border="0"></a>

 

<a href="https://ibb.co/TvV72GF"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/dWdVMvz/Screenshot-20200506-225441-Facebook-2.jpg" alt="Screenshot-20200506-225441-Facebook-2" border="0"></a>

[midds]

"ok lads, let's play"

[Robster]

Rafa called the players 'Donkeys' to the press. Did I miss that ?

[Raconteur]

Sounds similar to what a lot of Liverpool players have said. Even the players that don't like his methods or his manner still respect their effectiveness.

[nufcjb]

Why do the pitches look like they have been uprooted by a major earthquake?

 

Class what they could do with proper planning by a man with a project in mind.

 

We have a manager who thinks of bacon at a press conference. Fucking embarassing.

[Armchair Pundit]

Why do the pitches look like they have been uprooted by a major earthquake?

 

Class what they could do with proper planning by a man with a project in mind.

 

We have a manager who thinks of bacon at a press conference. f***ing embarassing.

 

They look like a bunch of paddy fields on the side of a hill to me, all the different levels.

[Paully]

Rafa called the players 'Donkeys' to the press. Did I miss that ?

 

I’ve never heard about that comment either!

[Mr Logic]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-argentinian-affair-rafas-remarkable-wooing-of-mascherano-434942.html

 

The Argentinian affair: Rafa's remarkable wooing of Mascherano

How Liverpool's manager won the heart and mind of a World Cup star. Now Anfield must await the approval of the Premier League

 

    By Jason Burt

    Sunday 4 February 2007 01:00

 

A few weeks ago Javier Mascherano had decided to try to end the madness of his short, surreal career at West Ham United and join Juventus. Even though the Italian club, given their own dramatic travails, could hardly be described as a bastion of sanity, they appeared an attrac-tive haven for the miserable young Argentinian midfielder - and perhaps one more suited to his style of play. The Old Lady had charmed El Jefe (The Chief). Then Mascherano received a knock on the door of his apartment in London's Docklands. It was Rafael Benitez. The Liverpool manager turned up unannounced and wanted to know why Mascherano had chosen the Stadio Delle Alpi ahead of Anfield. Over the next four hours Benitez talked to Mascherano as no coach had talked to him before, and the 22-year-old was utterly mesmerised. He also changed his mind. He would now try to join Liverpool. During the conversation Benitez had sat leaning over the coffee table and enthusiastically using the decorative stones placed on it to represent Liverpool players, just as a father might improvise with salt and pepper pots to explain the game to his son. Benitez told Mascherano exactly where he fitted into the Liverpool team - apparently alongside Xabi Alonso, holding in the centre of midfield, with Steven Gerrard on the right.

 

It is a story that suggested the nightmare would turn into a fairytale for Mascherano. But that would be far too simple an outcome for the extraordinary saga that started last August, on the final day of the summer transfer window, when it was announced that Mascherano and Carlos Tevez, two of the hottest talents in world football, had joined West Ham. And without a transfer fee being paid. No one could quite believe it. West Ham crowed how they had beaten off other clubs for the signatures, but it soon became apparent that no one else would have accepted the prohibitive terms under which the two players had arrived in England. Those terms have dogged proceedings ever since.

 

On another deadline day, the end of the January window last Wednesday, Kia Joorabchian, the Argentinians' mentor and the man who appears to control their "economic rights", was pacing his executive box at the Emirates Stadium. On the pitch, Arsenal were playing Tottenham Hotspur for a place in the League Cup final. Off it, Joorabchian was waiting for the mobile call to tell him that the Premier League had ratified the paperwork to allow Mascherano to move. It didn't come.

 

The documents were signed and delivered but Joorabchian, the 35-year-old Anglo-Iranian entrepreneur who had fronted a bid to buy West Ham and is looking to acquire another Premiership club, was told nothing would be agreed until the player's contract was scrutinised the following day. Such is the mad sequence of events that when Joorabchian asked where Mascherano, who he had hoped to sell for 25m euros (£16.5m) but is moving on an 18-month "loan", should report for training the next day - West Ham or Liver- pool - nobody knew the answer.

 

His frustration was compounded because the Premier League had written to Fifa for dispensation of their rules so that Mascherano could move to a third club within a season. Fifa had waited until the evening before the transfer window closed to grant this, partly because they did not want to receive a flood of similar requests. It is a confusing situation. Mascherano's lawyers were always confident the Fifa rule could be challenged, even though the organisation had written to West Ham in December warning them that neither player could be offloaded. Neither was wanted by the new chairman, Eggert Magnusson, who, understandably, thought the deal stank. Just as importantly he also did not want Joorabchian, who was involved in a staggering 19 deals last month, to continue having links with West Ham.

 

It meant that the Hammers washed their hands of the whole thing. Tevez was playing, so it was harder for him to argue his career was being damaged. Crucially, Mascherano's contract appeared to differ from Tevez's, as did the issue of exactly who owned each player. That is still mired in secrecy, hence the hold-up in Mascherano being allowed to move to Liverpool.

 

The Premier League are now seeking clarity, are scrutinising all the documentation and have emailed clubs to detail the relevant rule - U18 - which deals with the issue of player ownership. Basically it states that Premiership clubs are prohibited from signing players who are "owned by a third party" who would have the "ability materially to influence its policies or the performance of its teams". A comment by West Ham's manager, Alan Curbishley, was illuminating. Asked to explain Mascherano's departure, he said: "He hadn't played. Carlos was playing and was more settled, so I think they decided as soon as the window opened that there was a situation that could happen. I decided perhaps we should not stand in his way and to keep it clean we kept out of it."

 

It is who the "they" are that is the vexed issue, with Joorab-chian, who appears to have a 50 per cent stake; the company he previously worked with, MSI; and various other parties. West Ham held the registrations, with the players signing four-year deals, but there was another strand with owners who had a contractual right with West Ham over who they could be sold to in the future, for how much and when. Exactly who owns the players remains unknown, because the companies are registered in offshore tax havens.

 

It is a mess that needs clearing up so that it does not happen again. For a start, West Ham did not even appear to know that Mascherano had passed a medical and agreed terms with Liverpool some time ago. Were they aware that Benitez had been to see the player? And, if not, does that constitute "tapping up"? Curbishley has suggested West Ham did know, but added: "When Liverpool lodged their interest as a club we knew it was not all down to us, and we didn't want to stand in his way. That is why it was allowed to happen."

 

What is perhaps less confusing is why Mascherano, who played every minute of Argen-tina's World Cup campaign, did not succeed at Upton Park. In five months he played just five matches - and lost them all. But West Ham were the wrong team. The high-tempo, energetic style of play did not suit him. A struggling side, a club in turmoil failing to match last season's achievements, was not the right place.

 

"I arrived there with the hope of playing," he has since said, "so that European people would know me." He has certainly raised his profile. But not for the right reasons. Mascherano will hope Benitez can now alter that.

[stlouismag]

New post on Rafa's blog this morning: http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/in/blog/difficult-times/135/

 

An update and insights on preseason training - half of which he did in China and half in Spain as the pandemic was hitting its stride. As you'd expect from Rafa, he is ever-inquisitive and, as a result, has thoughtful insights on how different places are handling the pandemic. Argh, I miss him being part of the Club so much. 

 

The idea of Brucey even thinking to pay attention to the things Rafa talks about in depth (in a second language!), let alone learning from them, or, Hell, even cobbling together one coherent sentence on the subject . . . .

[Dr Jinx]

New post on Rafa's blog this morning: http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/in/blog/difficult-times/135/

 

An update and insights on preseason training - half of which he did in China and half in Spain as the pandemic was hitting its stride. As you'd expect from Rafa, he is ever-inquisitive and, as a result, has thoughtful insights on how different places are handling the pandemic. Argh, I miss him being part of the Club so much. 

 

The idea of Brucey even thinking to pay attention to the things Rafa talks about in depth (in a second language!), let alone learning from them, or, Hell, even cobbling together one coherent sentence on the subject . . . .

 

He sounds rather ingrained in the whole life there. Maybe that ship has sailed as far as nufc is concerned.

[Superior Acuña]

Rafa called the players 'Donkeys' to the press. Did I miss that ?

 

I’ve never heard about that comment either!

 

Don't think he means he literally called them donkeys, but the way he would be talking about needing a better players and that.

[TRon]

New post on Rafa's blog this morning: http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/in/blog/difficult-times/135/

 

An update and insights on preseason training - half of which he did in China and half in Spain as the pandemic was hitting its stride. As you'd expect from Rafa, he is ever-inquisitive and, as a result, has thoughtful insights on how different places are handling the pandemic. Argh, I miss him being part of the Club so much. 

 

The idea of Brucey even thinking to pay attention to the things Rafa talks about in depth (in a second language!), let alone learning from them, or, Hell, even cobbling together one coherent sentence on the subject . . . .

 

He sounds rather ingrained in the whole life there. Maybe that ship has sailed as far as nufc is concerned.

 

I didn't get that from reading the article tbh, it was mostly about how Asian countries are handling the virus compared to Europe.

 

I mean, with Rafa, he will always go in 100% anyway on any project he's involved with, but that usually just means the duration of the contract, unless he's really found a place he can call home.

[joeyt]

 

Interesting, Gouffran was alright in the Championship, but was quite clear he wasn't a Prem player

[Unlucky Luque]

Probably worked hard, kept his head down and followed instructions.

Such a strange player. Just so utterly unremarkable yet unprovoking compared to others from the same era. I always forget he played for us.

 

Mad that he has over 100 games for us.