Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[mrmojorisin75]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

Well that’s why he was sacked, obviously. Not before time, the writing was on the wall relegation wise. I’m interested in this much better squad. I’d only slot two if the pre January window squad into our current starting 11. How many would you play?

 

You can't compare like for like though because every team in the PL has strengthened since McLaren left, every team except us. McLaren got us to the same points total in the same number of games with a stronger team than we have now but in a weaker PL. Rafa has achieved it in a much stronger PL but with a weaker squad/team.

Steve 69 should have just ended the debate here like. Not only has everyone else strengthened, 17 other teams kept strengthening while we are pissing about in the champo. We've come up and strengthened less than anyone else yet we're still in with a shout of staying up. That is only down to Rafa being brilliant. That he makes mistakes amidst the brilliance is neither here nor there, the fact he's got us where we are is incredible in itself imo.

[Mattoon]

I was going to add a big, long reply on how Rafa isn't to blame for this but I can't be arsed, if you're buying Ashley's media buddies bullshit agenda then you're thicker than I give you credit for. Rafa is like Usain Bolt trying to win a race whilst giving Ashley a piggy back at the Olympics, the fact he's not dead last is a miracle ffs. Wake up!

[mrmojorisin75]

I was going to add a big, long reply on how Rafa isn't to blame for this but I can't be arsed, if you're buying Ashley's media buddies bullshit agenda then you're thicker than I give you credit for. Rafa is like Usain Bolt trying to win a race whilst giving Ashley a piggy back at the Olympics, the fact he's not dead last is a miracle ffs. Wake up!

That post should end the argument then. Done and done.

[SEMTEX]

we should probably just lock the thread

[mrmojorisin75]

we should probably just lock the thread

Why don't we lock the thread yeah.

[xLiaaamx]

Or we could just keep having these casual but meaningless discussions because thats the whole point of a football forum.

[mrmojorisin75]

Or we could just keep having these casual but meaningless discussions because thats the whole point of a football forum.

I guess what was the subtext to Tex's post.

 

 

[Dinho lad]

Someone mentioning Abeid again.....ffs....

[themanupstairs]

His results are poor = fact? I'm not convinced you can present this as fact. I mean you can look at points on the board and our results across a season and say that is poor. But is it not more complicated than that? The ability of our playing squad makes what at face value can be argued 'poor' results become considerably more reasonable.

 

Similarly, the argument about our playing squad being a lot better last time is not just as simple as saying well I don't agree. I mean if you were to look at the transfer value of that squad compared to this squad the difference in quality would be pronounced. Would any one of our players if sold (at a time of greatly increased fees) merit a transfer fee of £23 million?

 

Exactly. It's like saying Pardew was the reason we finished 5th that season and ignoring any other circumstances involved.

[Infinitely Content]

Someone mentioning Abeid again.....ffs....

 

Great player. Hope he starts v Man U.

[Sean]

Rafas not perfect...but he's the most perfect thing about our godforsaken club at the minute and on top of that he's the only man I want to represent this club. He's a fan in the managers seat, and that doesn't happen too often.Honestly I couldnt give a fuck if someone else could have us an extra point or 2 (I don't think anyone would but some obviously do). He's given us something to be proud of, and some hope.

 

[YNGLEGIONNAIRE]

We still debate about the torturous years and having managers who had no strategies or structure for developing the club and the team on the pitch . Send them out and hope for the best is basically what we've had for years , it had gotten to the point where a hell of a lot of us didn't even want the team to win , because the charlatans at the helm were credited with any crumbs of success . Here we have a genuine , astute and hugely respected figurehead as our manager and we are doubting his methods ? I know things can be frustrating at times , but this guy knows exactly what he wants from every player in every position on that pitch , and he wants every player on the books at all times to know what's expected of them . The fact that a great number of our playing staff are not up to the job is a major issue.Rafa will stick to his guns... We need to stick with Rafa.

[Begbie]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

[Greg]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

 

No because he hasn't got us relegated before. That's on Mike Ashley and Steve McClaren.

[Begbie]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

 

No because he hasn't got us relegated before. That's on Mike Ashley and Steve McClaren.

 

If he had gotten us the points we needed, he would have saved us. He didnt so we got relegated... Tomato-Tomato

[Mattoon]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

 

No because he hasn't got us relegated before. That's on Mike Ashley and Steve McClaren.

 

If he had gotten us the points we needed, he would have saved us. He didnt so we got relegated... Tomato-Tomato

There's a distinct difference between being unable to save something that was already damaged and being responsible for said damage as well you know. Rafa was not responsible for the last relegation potato-potato.

[Greg]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

 

No because he hasn't got us relegated before. That's on Mike Ashley and Steve McClaren.

 

If he had gotten us the points we needed, he would have saved us. He didnt so we got relegated... Tomato-Tomato

 

What a load of shite.

 

 

[Begbie]

If we get relegated, will Rafa be the first manager to get us relegated twice?

 

No because he hasn't got us relegated before. That's on Mike Ashley and Steve McClaren.

 

If he had gotten us the points we needed, he would have saved us. He didnt so we got relegated... Tomato-Tomato

There's a distinct difference between being unable to save something that was already damaged and being responsible for said damage as well you know. Rafa was not responsible for the last relegation potato-potato.

He was the manager, he had a hopless job to save us but he was our manager and was here when we got relegated.

Dont care about the responsibility, and im not having a dig at Rafa, im curious if he will be the first to have been our manager in to relegations.

 

Tought we all ready new that Ashley is responsible for the relegation..

[Robster]

What the hell has gone on on here recently.

So many WUM's craving attention.

[DJ_NUFC]

This thread is an armpit.

 

 

[Shadow Puppets]

Isn't it more a case of a lot of posters on here getting waaaaay too defensive at even the slightest mention of a negative towards Rafa? I may be missing something, but I don't remember seeing any posts saying that anyone wants him out? In fact, most seem to say the exact opposite. The vast majority of these "WUM" posts, as you call them, are simply putting out some truths about how Rafa could be doing better. It doesn't mean that they don't like him, that they think he's crap etc... just that there's things he could be doing a whole lot better.

 

I'm in that camp to be honest. I love what Rafa represents, I love how he handles himself (for the most part), and still believe he's the key to the future of this club... but...

 

1) The quality of football has largely been poor (in the Championship too, despite having the most talented squad). Yes, we won it, but it's 100% undeniable that we were VERY poor for large portions of that season.

2) I personally feel like he handled the start of this season dreadfully, playing out his argument with Ashley in public. In my opinion, that only hurt the first few results of the season.

3) I still don't like our tactics at home. Happy with the way we set up away from home, but for the most part we've been way too negative at home.

 

Let me clarify before anyone throws a hissy...

 

• I don't want Rafa out... I feel he is by far the best thing about this club in it's current form.
  
• I know he isn't the main problem, and if he was backed properly he would certainly be doing better.
  
• I'm not necessarily saying anyone else could be on more points either.
  
• I am not a WUM.
   
  

 

Some people just have differing opinions and views of the game. I just feel that some on here are stupidly defensive (much like his tactics at home!  )

[Shelveys Hair]

I would like to make some bullet points to.. but I cant remember how to use excel.

 

[Darth Crooks]

Isn't it more a case of a lot of posters on here getting waaaaay too defensive at even the slightest mention of a negative towards Rafa? I may be missing something, but I don't remember seeing any posts saying that anyone wants him out? In fact, most seem to say the exact opposite. The vast majority of these "WUM" posts, as you call them, are simply putting out some truths about how Rafa could be doing better. It doesn't mean that they don't like him, that they think he's crap etc... just that there's things he could be doing a whole lot better.

 

I'm in that camp to be honest. I love what Rafa represents, I love how he handles himself (for the most part), and still believe he's the key to the future of this club... but...

 

1) The quality of football has largely been poor (in the Championship too, despite having the most talented squad). Yes, we won it, but it's 100% undeniable that we were VERY poor for large portions of that season.

2) I personally feel like he handled the start of this season dreadfully, playing out his argument with Ashley in public. In my opinion, that only hurt the first few results of the season.

3) I still don't like our tactics at home. Happy with the way we set up away from home, but for the most part we've been way too negative at home.

 

Let me clarify before anyone throws a hissy...

 

• I don't want Rafa out... I feel he is by far the best thing about this club in it's current form.
  
• I know he isn't the main problem, and if he was backed properly he would certainly be doing better.
  
• I'm not necessarily saying anyone else could be on more points either.
  
• I am not a WUM.
   
  

 

Some people just have differing opinions and views of the game. I just feel that some on here are stupidly defensive (much like his tactics at home!  )

 

Put your tin hat on for that one bonny lad

[STM]

"I know he isn't the main problem." 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Isn't it more a case of a lot of posters on here getting waaaaay too defensive at even the slightest mention of a negative towards Rafa? I may be missing something, but I don't remember seeing any posts saying that anyone wants him out? In fact, most seem to say the exact opposite. The vast majority of these "WUM" posts, as you call them, are simply putting out some truths about how Rafa could be doing better. It doesn't mean that they don't like him, that they think he's crap etc... just that there's things he could be doing a whole lot better.

 

I'm in that camp to be honest. I love what Rafa represents, I love how he handles himself (for the most part), and still believe he's the key to the future of this club... but...

 

1) The quality of football has largely been poor (in the Championship too, despite having the most talented squad). Yes, we won it, but it's 100% undeniable that we were VERY poor for large portions of that season.

2) I personally feel like he handled the start of this season dreadfully, playing out his argument with Ashley in public. In my opinion, that only hurt the first few results of the season.

3) I still don't like our tactics at home. Happy with the way we set up away from home, but for the most part we've been way too negative at home.

 

Let me clarify before anyone throws a hissy...

 

• I don't want Rafa out... I feel he is by far the best thing about this club in it's current form.
  
• I know he isn't the main problem, and if he was backed properly he would certainly be doing better.
  
• I'm not necessarily saying anyone else could be on more points either.
  
• I am not a WUM.
   
  

 

Some people just have differing opinions and views of the game. I just feel that some on here are stupidly defensive (much like his tactics at home!  )

 

If you don't like the quality, didn't like the way he handled the start of the season, or like our tactics at home, that's all fair enough. They're all your opinions and have a basis within reality and personal preference. We can obviously all debate it, but it comes down to your preference. This idea that you 'can't say anything negative about Rafa' though is total nonsense. I can only speak for myself, but for me it's more often than not the case that I'm making basic counter arguments about 'his' signings, about the quality of our players, about the money he's had, the comparisons to McClaren's squad, comparisons to 'if Pardew did that...' and so on, as quite obvious, risible horseshit. Unfortunately those are more often than not the arguments from Rafa detractors and it maybe makes it look like you can't say anything, when in fact it's just that it's frustrating to see people in our own fanbase make such stupid arguments that completely ignore the much bigger, varying picture.