Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Yorkie]

Regardless of the tactics yesterday, we didn't keep the ball well enough and I think Ki needs to come in for Diame. The latter has lost his pizzazz which made him such an asset going forward as well as defensively last season. Those tight, ambitious forward passes were finding team-mates with astonishing regularity last season, but nowt's really coming off for him now.

 

Hopefully the dream duo that led Swansea City to that famous 12th-place finish in 2013/14 gets an opportunity to rekindle that form for 2018's NUFC. Truly exciting times ahead, whichever way you look at it. :thup:

[Tubestationatmidnight]

Heady days

[Crumpy Gunt]

Still think people are ignoring the fact that our ball retention was the worst it’s been in a long time. Players learn how to pass and we would have had a lot more of the ball. It wasn’t tactical to have so little possession.

 

Aye i commented during the game how Ritchie and Murphy at the time had no awareness of players around them and kept losing the ball, chuck in Ki and Mo playing sloppy balls as well. Rafa himself said after the game we had to keep the ball better, it wasn't a let them have it back as soon as we get it thing, just poor play from us in possession a fair bit.

 

Diame has not started the season well and I hope he's not going back to his old ways.

 

Aye. i can see a Ki/Shelvey pairing as we go on if Mo carries on the way he is. He's still getting stuck in but his use of the ball is so poor, mind you he's not alone in that.

 

You're right but I don't see Ki as the answer either to be honest - can't complain on a free transfer but he is just a meh signing really - it's where we are at though.

 

Yeah we needed to spend, even the amount we brought in but as you say it's where we are. So frustrating as you can see we're so close with a little ambition and common sense. (Obviously sloth has to sell up for that to happen)

Never going to happen without massive changes and the only way I can see it will is a mass boycott by fans not going (and I'm talking 000s). Maybe happen when Rafa departs this Summer and if we are relegated but even then I'm not convinced. It's an impossible situation currently really and the fans themselves are starting to argue more and more between themselves as to tactics, signings etc etc due to the current state this club is in thanks to Ashley.

As I suggested on another thread only long term visit to the lower leagues will see the end of Ashley. Mass boycott wont happen and will make zero difference anyway. 

[TRon]

Would Rafa ever go to Manure, or is the Liverpool connection going to finish that idea immediately?

 

Man U would never even dream of it, wrong type of manager, and definitely with the wrong pedigree.

[Astroblack]

They want someone with more style and suave like Zidane.

 

We're safe.

[ToonArmy1892]

All about opinions and that, but people having a go at Rafa for the Chelsea game, i just don't get them.

 

The tactics were working before a poor referee decision, Chelsea couldn't break us down and that long range effort showed they were getting frustrated.

 

I think some people just won't accept defensive tactics full stop, even when they are working.

[Guest chopey]

Fat Sam's Everton never had a shot on target for about 4 games and he gets lorded as a defensive mastermind.

[rgk_lfc]

Would Rafa ever go to Manure, or is the Liverpool connection going to finish that idea immediately?

 

You have a higher chance of being hired as the Manure manager than Rafa.

[James]

Anyone remember when we played for a point against hapless Derby Coonty?

[Guest reefatoon]

Anyone remember when we played for a point against hapless Derby Coonty?

 

It was the way we tried to do it at hapless Reading that sent me over the edge (we lost that 1-0 too). Just can't watch that type of football at all. Probably why i gave Sunday's game 15 minutes before switching it off and doing something else instead.  Football like that only has one outcome.

[Scoot]

Anyone remember when we played for a point against hapless Derby Coonty?

 

Is that the Derby County who finished the season with 11 points, 4 if them against us? 1 win all season?

[Dave]

Anyone remember when we played for a point against hapless Derby Coonty?

 

Bit racist.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Our possession stats are worrying, you can still have more of the ball and not be gung ho. We clearly don’t practice much with the ball in terms of possession. Rafa used to be big on possession when he was at Valencia who would pass the ball to death, I wish I still had all those old PDF files he wrote about possession and other tactics which used to be available on the UEFA coaching portal. I don’t even know if that still exists.

 

Playing the way we do will keep us in games, but will inevitably lead to a loss especially against the better teams or make it difficult for us to get anything out of a game unless we nick something on the counter. We even play like that against lesser teams or teams who are not as good as Chelsea.

 

What gets me is when we do keep the ball, move it quick, get at teams and play a high pressing game we have shown we can beat teams like Chelsea as we did last season. I thought the way we played against Arsenal for example at home was superb and the blueprint to how we should approach all games other than against the likes of City and Liverpool.

 

I didn’t see much of the game, but Chelsea are not a great team and to have less than 20% of the ball is worrying and just as worrying were Rafa’s comments about how possession isn’t important which is a far cry from how he viewed it at Valencia and Liverpool where his teams were often criticised for their ‘nothing’ possession...

 

His methods work though and were what kept us up last season and likely will do this season, but my god, I wouldn’t like to pay to watch that and it’s not my kind of football because it’s ultimately as one dimensional as the fooyball served up by the likes of Allardyce and Pardew and will only ever get you to a certain point.

 

It doesn’t help matters mind when he cannot do more in terms of developing how we play and changing how we play because he cannot sign the players to help that or make that transition a quicker process and a bigger step.

[Infinitely Content]

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

These tactics would be a problem if we approached every game in this manner, It's not particularly enjoyable, but I think with a more settled forward line and our best 11 fit we would have created more anyway.

 

Bottom line I can take 3 or 4 of these kinds of backs to the wall performances as long as we try and take it to the rest of the teams.

[loki679]

Our possession stats are worrying, you can still have more of the ball and not be gung ho. We clearly don’t practice much with the ball in terms of possession. Rafa used to be big on possession when he was at Valencia who would pass the ball to death, I wish I still had all those old PDF files he wrote about possession and other tactics which used to be available on the UEFA coaching portal. I don’t even know if that still exists.

 

Playing the way we do will keep us in games, but will inevitably lead to a loss especially against the better teams or make it difficult for us to get anything out of a game unless we nick something on the counter. We even play like that against lesser teams or teams who are not as good as Chelsea.

 

What gets me is when we do keep the ball, move it quick, get at teams and play a high pressing game we have shown we can beat teams like Chelsea as we did last season. I thought the way we played against Arsenal for example at home was superb and the blueprint to how we should approach all games other than against the likes of City and Liverpool.

 

I didn’t see much of the game, but Chelsea are not a great team and to have less than 20% of the ball is worrying and just as worrying were Rafa’s comments about how possession isn’t important which is a far cry from how he viewed it at Valencia and Liverpool where his teams were often criticised for their ‘nothing’ possession...

 

His methods work though and were what kept us up last season and likely will do this season, but my god, I wouldn’t like to pay to watch that and it’s not my kind of football because it’s ultimately as one dimensional as the fooyball served up by the likes of Allardyce and Pardew and will only ever get you to a certain point.

 

It doesn’t help matters mind when he cannot do more in terms of developing how we play and changing how we play because he cannot sign the players to help that or make that transition a quicker process and a bigger step.

 

It's the same old circular argument though.  If we'd opened up then they'd have cut us to pieces and you can't play a high intensity press for 90 minutes, the players would be finished by 60.

 

Sure, i'd love to see us go out and try and get at them.  Right up until the 2nd or 3rd goal went in and everyone is shouting for us to play more defensively.

[Guest reefatoon]

Our possession stats are worrying, you can still have more of the ball and not be gung ho. We clearly don’t practice much with the ball in terms of possession. Rafa used to be big on possession when he was at Valencia who would pass the ball to death, I wish I still had all those old PDF files he wrote about possession and other tactics which used to be available on the UEFA coaching portal. I don’t even know if that still exists.

 

Playing the way we do will keep us in games, but will inevitably lead to a loss especially against the better teams or make it difficult for us to get anything out of a game unless we nick something on the counter. We even play like that against lesser teams or teams who are not as good as Chelsea.

 

What gets me is when we do keep the ball, move it quick, get at teams and play a high pressing game we have shown we can beat teams like Chelsea as we did last season. I thought the way we played against Arsenal for example at home was superb and the blueprint to how we should approach all games other than against the likes of City and Liverpool.

 

I didn’t see much of the game, but Chelsea are not a great team and to have less than 20% of the ball is worrying and just as worrying were Rafa’s comments about how possession isn’t important which is a far cry from how he viewed it at Valencia and Liverpool where his teams were often criticised for their ‘nothing’ possession...

 

His methods work though and were what kept us up last season and likely will do this season, but my god, I wouldn’t like to pay to watch that and it’s not my kind of football because it’s ultimately as one dimensional as the fooyball served up by the likes of Allardyce and Pardew and will only ever get you to a certain point.

 

It doesn’t help matters mind when he cannot do more in terms of developing how we play and changing how we play because he cannot sign the players to help that or make that transition a quicker process and a bigger step.

 

It's the same old circular argument though.  If we'd opened up then they'd have cut us to pieces and you can't play a high intensity press for 90 minutes, the players would be finished by 60.

 

Sure, i'd love to see us go out and try and get at them.  Right up until the 2nd or 3rd goal went in and everyone is shouting for us to play more defensively.

 

 

In fairness, that didn't happen in the previous few season's when we played them and got a result.

[ToonArmy1892]

Andy Hinchcliffe at the start of the second half...

 

"I'm a little bit bemused really by the comments in the studio at half time, i've been very impressed with Newcastle, i can understand why they are playing this way, yes it's defensive but they are getting players over the half way line, they're not just sitting in their own half kicking it into Chelsea's half and staying there"

 

[HaydnNUFC]

One of the very small few at Sky who isn't an utter mong.

[xLiaaamx]

I'm beggining to just think this is how he is when he has new players settling in.

 

We started the championship very cautiously.

 

We started last season very cautiously, and then in the second half of the season we were very aggressive and in peoples faces.

 

I suspect as the season goes on we'll get more aggressive again.

[Newintoon]

Just seen clip of presser on ssnews, the tactics are a result of the transfer window, keep jabbing him Rafa, keep jabbing

[Dave]

Andy Hinchcliffe at the start of the second half...

 

"I'm a little bit bemused really by the comments in the studio at half time, i've been very impressed with Newcastle, i can understand why they are playing this way, yes it's defensive but they are getting players over the half way line, they're not just sitting in their own half kicking it into Chelsea's half and staying there"

 

 

Refreshing. Overall I felt we could have been more positive but the suggestion (particularly only halfway through the match) that we simply weren't taking part was bollocks IMO.

[joeyt]

I thought we were quite considerably poorer in the second half than the first. Felt like we barely got over the half way line until we scored in the 2nd whereas we got into some good positions 1st half

[TRon]

We were five minutes from getting a very good point all said and done. It wasn't pretty but it took a couple of scrappy goals to beat us, and on another day we could have been 2-0 down and out of the game within half an hour.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Our possession stats are worrying, you can still have more of the ball and not be gung ho. We clearly don’t practice much with the ball in terms of possession. Rafa used to be big on possession when he was at Valencia who would pass the ball to death, I wish I still had all those old PDF files he wrote about possession and other tactics which used to be available on the UEFA coaching portal. I don’t even know if that still exists.

 

Playing the way we do will keep us in games, but will inevitably lead to a loss especially against the better teams or make it difficult for us to get anything out of a game unless we nick something on the counter. We even play like that against lesser teams or teams who are not as good as Chelsea.

 

What gets me is when we do keep the ball, move it quick, get at teams and play a high pressing game we have shown we can beat teams like Chelsea as we did last season. I thought the way we played against Arsenal for example at home was superb and the blueprint to how we should approach all games other than against the likes of City and Liverpool.

 

I didn’t see much of the game, but Chelsea are not a great team and to have less than 20% of the ball is worrying and just as worrying were Rafa’s comments about how possession isn’t important which is a far cry from how he viewed it at Valencia and Liverpool where his teams were often criticised for their ‘nothing’ possession...

 

His methods work though and were what kept us up last season and likely will do this season, but my god, I wouldn’t like to pay to watch that and it’s not my kind of football because it’s ultimately as one dimensional as the fooyball served up by the likes of Allardyce and Pardew and will only ever get you to a certain point.

 

It doesn’t help matters mind when he cannot do more in terms of developing how we play and changing how we play because he cannot sign the players to help that or make that transition a quicker process and a bigger step.

 

It's the same old circular argument though.  If we'd opened up then they'd have cut us to pieces and you can't play a high intensity press for 90 minutes, the players would be finished by 60.

 

Sure, i'd love to see us go out and try and get at them.  Right up until the 2nd or 3rd goal went in and everyone is shouting for us to play more defensively.

 

No one says we have to open them up or be gung ho, that’s what I hate about the game today in terms of the parking the bus or all out attack debate, there can be a middle ground as Wolves demonstrated against City and as we have done many a time even under Rafa.

 

Away from home I don’t really care about performances, well I do, but it’s the points that matter most so if we were to scrape a last minute winner to win all away games 1-0 having sat behind the ball for 90 minutes with 20% possession or whatever, I wouldn’t be critical.

 

At home I expect us or rather to want to see us take the game to whoever we are playing more because I feel we always get better results at SJP or unexpected results when we do. I’m not asking for KK style attacking football, but more of how we played at home to Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal for example last season, especially against weaker or compatible sides.

 

We would stand a better chance of either winning or not losing or relying on thin margins like own goals going against us or dodgy pens to point to how unlucky we were not to get something.

 

I get why Rafa has us set up that way and again as I’ve said it works, but only to a degree and it’s the same one dimensional hit and hope almost type of football Allardyce and Pardew play or played, only we are better organised, less likely to be thrashed and are of course tactically more astute so we don’t lose as many or struggle as much. That and Rafa has a huge line of credit and good will on the stands...

 

Can we play better? Of course we can and even though we are limited by the quality or lack of within our squad, we should not use that as an excuse or to go soft when we perform bad or lose or question our tactics and methods.

 

20% possession at home? Chelsea are not Man City and we are not Cardiff. I think we are better or could be having more of the ball and taking more chances going forward than we are not having the ball and allowing the opposition to s we stay in the game because it puts so much pressure on the players to keep them out and then our forwards to nick a goal.

 

There is a balance or middle ground, we showed that at times last season.