Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[huss9]

he's persisting in playing without our best midfielder.  his explanations dont really make sense.

 

I don't think he really needs to make any explanations. His tendency to stick with formations and players has usually been proven correct. He's consistently backed Gayle for example, when plenty of fans were fed up, early last season included. Same goes for Lascelles, daft as it seems now. I can remember loads of supporters calling him worse than s*** during a bad run in the championship. I think the biggest chance we've got of surviving this season is we have a manager who is clear minded and knows exactly what he wants regardless of what anyone else thinks, including the owner.

 

unfortunately his "usually  correct" tactics/selection have not worked in the last 7 games.

still the man for the job but he needs to go back to basics.

pack the midfield and press high.

[Ketsbaia]

Top work, Rafa

[UncleBingo]

Burnley have better players than we do in core areas I'm afraid. Heaton, Pope, Defour, Brady, Cork even the likes of Jeff Hendrick. 

 

Chris Wood, Jonathan Walters, Sam Vokes, Ben Mee, James Tarkovski, Charlie Taylor - the list goes on.

 

Exactly.

 

They are an established PL side with a solid squad, we've just come up from the Championship, spent next to nowt in the Summer and suddenly we have better players than them.

 

Some people need to get a grip.

[NEEJ]

Top work, Rafa

If serious, you're an absolute rectangle. Thought better of you.

[sbnufc]

Don't get why we went 442, then when it's clearly not working straight back to 4231 which was working

We lost today with 442, lost against Watford 442, Man Utd was 442 and the Bournemouth loss was 442

 

Beat Palace with Ayoze behind Joselu, same when we beat Stoke, Swansea and West Ham. Ayoze was behind Joselu against Liverpool which we drew

 

Since we last won a game (correct me if I'm wrong) but the only time we started 4231 Ayoze behind Joselu was West Brom and we drew. Lost all the others with 442 (and the back 3/5/whatever at Chelsea)

 

edit: lost at Burnley with the 4231 didnt we, so 1 loss with that since we won a game

 

Sure the football was abysmal to watch with 4231 but I'd rather have results at this point

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Not sure today was anything to do with tactics or formations. We look a team that’s shaky and lacking confidence at times, and we’re letting in goals due to mistakes.

 

I was expecting Rafa to go back to 4231 today, but in the end it turned out to be relatively fine.

[Disco]

We need an English in. Gerry Francis for me.

[sbnufc]

We need an English in. Gerry Francis for me.

Curbishley is available

[mighty__mag]

Burnley have better players than we do in core areas I'm afraid. Heaton, Pope, Defour, Brady, Cork even the likes of Jeff Hendrick. 

 

Chris Wood, Jonathan Walters, Sam Vokes, Ben Mee, James Tarkovski, Charlie Taylor - the list goes on.

 

Exactly.

 

They are an established PL side with a solid squad, we've just come up from the Championship, spent next to nowt in the Summer and suddenly we have better players than them.

 

Some people need to get a grip.

 

Their side is mostly made up of championship and football league signings. More recently they got players with prem experience but nothing to shout about in Bardsley Cork and Walters. Equally they lost two huge players for them in Michael Keane and Andre Gray.

 

They are nothing superior to us, they have just managed to make things click gritty determined and not afraid to play any sides big or small, the fact they are doing well is down to their manager and mental approach to games. Suddenly pretending to ourselves they are a team of world beaters is a bit far fetched, all This established premier league players, fair enough we spent a season out of the league when they had one extra, is it such a gap they opened in that time. Fucking hell at the start of the season if we went for Cork instead of Merino, and Walters, or Bardsley instead of other signings we would have had some moaning.

 

Florian Lejeune

Christian Atsu

Jacob Murphy

Javier Manquillo

Mikel Merino

Joselu

 

Their big buy was Wood who was championship top scorer.

We had a player who was on a similar tally carrying the same sort of goalscoring form up from the championship from the same season (Gayle). Their last season they just managed to survive with 40pts and close to the relegation.

 

I don't beleive us and Burnley are suddenly worlds apart. We just haven't managed to get it right with our new signings. Most of our championship side or if you put out our best championship side from last season would probably perform better. I cant see much in the new signings that made any drastic improvements.

Merino is a tidy player but lately this week and last week he has been responsible for two goals shipped. And his form is wank since he returned from injury.

 

Anyways fuck it I need to get a grip

 

 

 

 

 

[Away Toon]

Would any of the top 6 managers or Dyche, Howe, Puel, Silva etc be doing worse than Rafa with this squad? Just a question. Puts Kevlar suit and tin hat on.

[r0cafella]

His net spend with us is what? Less than 10 million? We are clearly buying players which are some way down his list.

 

Given everything I’m not sure what people expect?

[ElDiablo]

We look so poorly organised and shapeless which is really down to him. I know you're not allowed to say that though.

[ilikenewcastle]

Why is everyone so obsessed with Burnley all of a sudden? Anyway, if you insist on comparing us with them, they finished 16th as a newly promoted side which is what we're on course to do ourselves right now.

[Heron]

Rafa isn't so godly that he cannot be criticised. However, he is also in a different solar system to some of the shit we've put up with in the last ten years under the same cancerous owner. So hmm make a judgement call on that...

 

[Zero]

The collapse started when we start to play Gayle again.

[CPL]

The collapse started when we start to play Gayle again.

 

Who is currently our top goal scorer. One assist and a goal last night plus goals at Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge. We have missed Lascelles’ leadership and also Atsu’s ball outlet.  This would be a better and fair assessment in my opinion.

[Zero]

No. I am serious. We lost our form once Gayle is getting back to the team. I ain't criticising Gayle but I do think we have been working well as a unit before we dropped Perez and play Gayle. Although Perez was playing poorly and Gayle deserved a chance, sometimes team chemistry is not totally related to individual performance.

 

Get back to 4231, Perez and Joselu, Atsu and Ritchie, Merino and Hayden please.

[CPL]

No. I am serious. We lost our form once Gayle is getting back to the team. I ain't criticising Gayle but I do think we have been working well as a unit before we dropped Perez and play Gayle. Although Perez was playing poorly and Gayle deserved a chance, sometimes team chemistry is not totally related to individual performance.

 

Get back to 4231, Perez and Joselu, Atsu and Ritchie, Merino and Hayden please.

 

I can see where you’re coming from and I think 4-2-3-1 suits us better but I don’t think we can drop Gayle at the minute especially with his pace and goal threat. I would play Joselu just behind Gayle as Perez and Gayle together was just disastrous against Huddersfield.

 

Edit: Joselu is also on 3 goals so joint top goal scorer.

 

[Zero]

No. I am serious. We lost our form once Gayle is getting back to the team. I ain't criticising Gayle but I do think we have been working well as a unit before we dropped Perez and play Gayle. Although Perez was playing poorly and Gayle deserved a chance, sometimes team chemistry is not totally related to individual performance.

 

Get back to 4231, Perez and Joselu, Atsu and Ritchie, Merino and Hayden please.

 

I can see where you’re coming from and I think 4-2-3-1 suits us better but I don’t think we can drop Gayle at the minute especially with his pace and goal threat. I would play Joselu just behind Gayle as Perez and Gayle together was just disastrous against Huddersfield

 

Last night Joselu was exactly playing behind Gayle. The difference is probably just to ask Joselu to play a bit more closer to midfield but I don't think it makes a big difference. Joselu simply not up to that role. He is very limited, so as the other players we have.  That's also related to why we are struggling now - our players aren't good enough to carry out Rafa various tactics and the team simply stop working once we made any changes.

 

[CPL]

No. I am serious. We lost our form once Gayle is getting back to the team. I ain't criticising Gayle but I do think we have been working well as a unit before we dropped Perez and play Gayle. Although Perez was playing poorly and Gayle deserved a chance, sometimes team chemistry is not totally related to individual performance.

 

Get back to 4231, Perez and Joselu, Atsu and Ritchie, Merino and Hayden please.

 

I can see where you’re coming from and I think 4-2-3-1 suits us better but I don’t think we can drop Gayle at the minute especially with his pace and goal threat. I would play Joselu just behind Gayle as Perez and Gayle together was just disastrous against Huddersfield

 

Last night Joselu was exactly playing behind Gayle. The difference is probably just to ask Joselu to play a bit more closer to midfield but I don't think it makes a big difference. Joselu simply not up to that role. He is very limited, so as the other players we have.  That's also related to why we are struggling now - our players aren't good enough to carry out Rafa various tactics and the team simply stop working once we made any changes.

 

 

So I assume you would drop Gayle?

[Stottie]

Interesting theory. However, didn't we pick up points earlier in the season thanks to goals from Lascelles, Clark, and that one from Merino? I don't think it was the formation.

 

To get full value out of Gayle, I think we need to play Shelvey, and it is that that might screw things up. fwiw, I subscribe to the theory that Gayle is capable of doing as well as the historical average for leading Championship strikers entering the PL with the same team. It's 40% fewer goals per game. For Gayle, that would make him a 12-13 a season striker, entirely reasonable for a midtable side. This assumes that there isn't some weird fitness or mental thing going on with Gayle, which was kind of hinted at during the summer.

 

https://experimental361.com/2017/07/15/how-do-goalscorers-fare-after-their-team-is-promoted/

 

If I may criticise Rafa yesterday, I'd have kept Elliot in and dropped Manquillo. Elliot's save percentage is about the same as Lloris (who's slumping a bit) and above Pickford's. I don't like Elliot but he's more mediocre than useless. They'll be at least five worse than him in the league. Brighton's is for certain. I'd criticise Rafa on this because we've seen Darlow makes bad decisions, rushing out for balls he'll never get, and it makes the whole defence nervous. The other Rafa criticism I'd make is that his substitutions could almost be scripted and should be more proactive.

 

We're on a bad run and are crying out for some spine in the team. Lascelles can't come back soon enough for me.

[Zero]

No. I am serious. We lost our form once Gayle is getting back to the team. I ain't criticising Gayle but I do think we have been working well as a unit before we dropped Perez and play Gayle. Although Perez was playing poorly and Gayle deserved a chance, sometimes team chemistry is not totally related to individual performance.

 

Get back to 4231, Perez and Joselu, Atsu and Ritchie, Merino and Hayden please.

 

I can see where you’re coming from and I think 4-2-3-1 suits us better but I don’t think we can drop Gayle at the minute especially with his pace and goal threat. I would play Joselu just behind Gayle as Perez and Gayle together was just disastrous against Huddersfield

 

Last night Joselu was exactly playing behind Gayle. The difference is probably just to ask Joselu to play a bit more closer to midfield but I don't think it makes a big difference. Joselu simply not up to that role. He is very limited, so as the other players we have.  That's also related to why we are struggling now - our players aren't good enough to carry out Rafa various tactics and the team simply stop working once we made any changes.

 

 

So I assume you would drop Gayle?

 

Yes, make him an impact sub. In short, base on my observation:

1. We need 3 midfield to cover up our defense line, and Perez coverage on both sides are critical.

2.  We need someone to be able to hold up balls and give our defense line time to recover. That has to be Joselu. Gayle simply not his strength.

 

Another slight twist could be push Merino up to replace Perez. Still we need Joselu there.

 

I know what you mean, dropping our in form striker doesn't make much sense, but to me the team looks fucking disjoint and it is obvious that we can't defend like this. What's the point of scoring 1 goal per match if in return we would concede 3? Yes we do miss Lascelles but that's not the only factor. Our team as a whole need to revert back to how we achieved success earlier this season, and restore players confidence asap.

 

Just like we always said great players can always perform in many occasions, limited players can only perform in very limited conditions.

[Sean]

Interesting theory. However, didn't we pick up points earlier in the season thanks to goals from Lascelles, Clark, and that one from Merino? I don't think it was the formation.

 

To get full value out of Gayle, I think we need to play Shelvey, and it is that that might screw things up. fwiw, I subscribe to the theory that Gayle is capable of doing as well as the historical average for leading Championship strikers entering the PL with the same team. It's 40% fewer goals per game. For Gayle, that would make him a 12-13 a season striker, entirely reasonable for a midtable side. This assumes that there isn't some weird fitness or mental thing going on with Gayle, which was kind of hinted at during the summer.

 

https://experimental361.com/2017/07/15/how-do-goalscorers-fare-after-their-team-is-promoted/

 

If I may criticise Rafa yesterday, I'd have kept Elliot in and dropped Manquillo. Elliot's save percentage is about the same as Lloris (who's slumping a bit) and above Pickford's. I don't like Elliot but he's more mediocre than useless. They'll be at least five worse than him in the league. Brighton's is for certain. I'd criticise Rafa on this because we've seen Darlow makes bad decisions, rushing out for balls he'll never get, and it makes the whole defence nervous. The other Rafa criticism I'd make is that his substitutions could almost be scripted and should be more proactive.

 

We're on a bad run and are crying out for some spine in the team. Lascelles can't come back soon enough for me.

 

In regards those figures, Gayle was averaging a goal every 93 minutes last season. Cba to work it out properly but even 40% fewer would be more than 13 goals I believe surely? Like around 19/20?

[Stottie]

We let Leicester dominate for about twenty-five minutes in the first half, but they only scored with a long ranger that should have been saved. The only easy chance we gifted Leicester was Okazaki's at the end, and we had to score it for him. We gave Vardy basically nothing all game. He mightn't be likable, but he is a very good striker who scored a worldie last week was it.

 

In isolation the game wasn't too bad. If you wanted to, you could cherry pick that we got back into it and looked more likely than them to get a third. We're a bottom half team, so "look like winning" is about as good as it will get. What is genuinely disturbing is when you take this game in the context of our last ten games. Several of our players are clearly struggling, even ones like Merino who looked good a couple of months ago. There seems to be a malaise, and its hard to see how we can turn the corner on it.

 

Since we don't have another RB, the struggling Yedlin has to stay in, but I'd drop Lejeune, Manquillo and Darlow. I'd play Gamez over Manquillo if Dummett is not ready. I'd keep Gayle in and maybe play all three CMs. I would also tell them to get in the refs face when two of them get elbowed within five seconds. Accepting things like that meekly is all part of the malaise. That incident alone was worth 0.5 on the relegationometer.

[Sean]

We let Leicester dominate for about twenty-five minutes in the first half, but they only scored with a long ranger that should have been saved. The only easy chance we gifted Leicester was Okazaki's at the end, and we had to score it for him. We gave Vardy basically nothing all game. He mightn't be likable, but he is a very good striker who scored a worldie last week was it.

 

In isolation the game wasn't too bad. If you wanted to, you could cherry pick that we got back into it and looked more likely than them to get a third. We're a bottom half team, so "look like winning" is about as good as it will get. What is genuinely disturbing is when you take this game in the context of our last ten games. Several of our players are clearly struggling, even ones like Merino who looked good a couple of months ago. There seems to be a malaise, and its hard to see how we can turn the corner on it.

 

Since we don't have another RB, the struggling Yedlin has to stay in, but I'd drop Lejeune, Manquillo and Darlow. I'd play Gamez over Manquillo if Dummett is not ready. I'd keep Gayle in and maybe play all three CMs. I would also tell them to get in the refs face when two of them get elbowed within five seconds. Accepting things like that meekly is all part of the malaise. That incident alone was worth 0.5 on the relegationometer.

 

Yep. At the end of the day Leicester had more quality than us at both ends of the pitch, we're also a very young and inexperienced team and that's showing at the minute. I also think the whole teams struggling to play in front of the crowd, I know people will say that moans and groans shouldn't affect them but it will. They all looked scared to try anything yesterday, also there were more than a few occasions of players turning on each other visibly, I'm of the opinion most of this was done with the intention of showing the crowd they were not the problem but one of their teammates was. We need experienced players and big characters but we don't really have any.