Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Chicken Dancer]

Kane was nothing, if I remember correctly- Sherwood was caretaker or something and had a bit of a striker crisis, so had to play him. Similar situation with Rashford I think, can't remember much fanfare about either (certainly not on FM ) prior to them breaking into the squads or as youngins, although I could be wrong. They got in by accident and have stayed there - makes you wonder how many kids/young players just need a run of games, there'll be 1000s that slip through.

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Aye Kane wasn't great (from memory) goals wise but the value he would have got from the loan is huge. I didn't see his games but I imagine his all round game was pretty decent. It's also the fact he CAN play against men, in men's football without being completely bullied.

 

Probably not the place for it, but I watched Toney every week for Scunthorpe, and even at that level he still looked like a kid. Obviously he bossed it, but looking at him now he looks like a completely different player. There's no way he would have come into the Newcastle team at the time and got to the level he is now. He looks like an absolute beast now.

[Shearergol]

Just now, Chicken Dancer said:

Kane was nothing, if I remember correctly- Sherwood was caretaker or something and had a bit of a striker crisis, so had to play him. Similar situation with Rashford I think, can't remember much fanfare about either (certainly not on FM ) prior to them breaking into the squads or as youngins, although I could be wrong. They got in by accident and have stayed there - makes you wonder how many kids/young players just need a run of games, there'll be 1000s that slip through.

 

All this time and I hadn't realised Kane played for Norwich.

[Guest HTT II]

9 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Aye Kane wasn't great (from memory) goals wise but the value he would have got from the loan is huge. I didn't see his games but I imagine his all round game was pretty decent. It's also the fact he CAN play against men, in men's football without being completely bullied.

Aye, the experience would have been decent for him and probably helped him become more hungrier to make it. You make a good point there, stats can be misleading, I don’t think he scored many, but he could have looked really good for all we know and today fans and media and pundits look at a player and base their analysis on stats alone mostly.
 

Look at Kane this season, he has what 4 goals? If he was 23 now Spurs fans would be wanting him out with that kind of form, and although he’s been off form for a while now, he has become one of the best strikers in the world since he come through. Another good point, loans lower down can test a player physically and that alone if they come through can show they can at least compete physically, which is half the battle.

 

I’ve seen 17 year old kids with nowt to them against other 17 year olds much more stronger and although more skilled and more talented, be absolutely destroyed by cloggers who end up making it and the talented player doesn’t.

 

You’re a scout and it’s about scouting and using proper data IMO on all kinds of metrics than just well the big lad beat him in the air so he’s shit at heading or whatever. That’s why I’m hoping in the near future we start using tech more to analyse players and look at technical strengths and weaknesses over physical, especially at younger ages.

 

My nephew was deemed slow, weak and skinny, he’s 6ft plus now and does martial arts and goes on runs. Some of the kids bigger and stronger than him at the same age now didn’t develop at their original rate, he caught up or become taller, stronger, quicker. None of them play today at any level other than maybe 5-a-side with mates etc.

 

Those group of kids 15 years ago were deemed the cream of the crop at NUFC/youth level.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by HTT II

[Guest Biggsbond14]

Martinez linked for a return apparently did the Everton fans not hound him out too ?

[Fantail Breeze]

Really hope they get Martinez, would be hilarious. Would possibly drag them into a relegation fight.

[cubaricho]

Martinez would be an absolute idiot to walk away from this Belgium squad in a WC year.

[r0cafella]

Rafa needs another NUFC. A club that he can go into who respects his achievements for what they are and given the freedom to do his job. Once he finds such a club he will absolutely fly and overachieve. 

[Thiago]

10 hours ago, cubaricho said:

Martinez would be an absolute idiot to walk away from this Belgium squad in a WC year.

But don't be shocked if he dips out after the WC. The current crop is drifting towards retirement and the next wave isn't half as good. It's the worst time to take a national team. 

[TRon]

9 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Rafa needs another NUFC. A club that he can go into who respects his achievements for what they are and given the freedom to do his job. Once he finds such a club he will absolutely fly and overachieve. 

 

Could say the same for Mourinho to some extent, but his ego will be the problem anywhere in England. But these guys are students of the game, they haven't suddenly turned into bad managers. I don't think either will be getting top level jobs in a hurry though, at least not while teams like Liverpool, City and Chelsea are sweeping up everything playing attacking football. They would probably do better doing what Simeone does at Atletico, take charge of an unfancied club and make them punch above their weight. 

[r0cafella]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Could say the same for Mourinho to some extent, but his ego will be the problem anywhere in England. But these guys are students of the game, they haven't suddenly turned into bad managers. I don't think either will be getting top level jobs in a hurry though, at least not while teams like Liverpool, City and Chelsea are sweeping up everything playing attacking football. They would probably do better doing what Simeone does at Atletico, take charge of an unfancied club and make them punch above their weight. 

Disagree, Rafa took us on when we were at a very Low ebb, nothing to suggest he’s over egotistical about the clubs he takes over. 
 

will he find this kind of club? That remains to be seen but he’d be a fantastic appointment for any Ho hum who would back him the way he needs. 

[TRon]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Disagree, Rafa took us on when we were at a very Low ebb, nothing to suggest he’s over egotistical about the clubs he takes over. 
 

will he find this kind of club? That remains to be seen but he’d be a fantastic appointment for any Ho hum who would back him the way he needs. 

 

I was talking about Mourinho re the ego, Rafa doesn't really have one, I only made the comparison because they have similar football philosophies, and are both now considered yesterday's men. 

[r0cafella]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I was talking about Mourinho re the ego, Rafa doesn't really have one, I only made the comparison because they have similar football philosophies, and are both now considered yesterday's men. 

I’m not sure I would say they are yesterdays men mind. I get the point your making though the level of success the enjoyed previously hasn’t been the same recently. 
 

I wouldn’t rule them out yet, but any future achievements they have should be put in to context. The richest clubs are likely to continue to dominate and it’s unlikely we will see them hire top down managers such as Rafa or Jose. 

[gbandit]

What do we think are the chances of Everton being pulled into this relegation battle? When’s DCL due back? Looks like he’s back in contention now so maybe they’ll be fine but if picks up another injury I could see them getting sucked in 

[St1pe]

11 minutes ago, gbandit said:

What do we think are the chances of Everton being pulled into this relegation battle? When’s DCL due back? Looks like he’s back in contention now so maybe they’ll be fine but if picks up another injury I could see them getting sucked in 

I don’t think any of the bottom 4 teams will pick up enough points to drag anyone else into it this season. 

[Manxst]

11 minutes ago, gbandit said:

What do we think are the chances of Everton being pulled into this relegation battle? When’s DCL due back? Looks like he’s back in contention now so maybe they’ll be fine but if picks up another injury I could see them getting sucked in 

Totally depends on the new manager and how they turn it around/get a bounce. Their squad is good enough to survive for sure, but Rafa didn’t get them to perform. If they carry on as they currently are, they’ll get sucked right into the mire at the bottom with us for sure.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, ManDoon said:

There are some shades of us 09. Imo 

We had Shearer and what’s his face as manager though. 
 

what’s his face era was the reason we went down.  

[Kid Icarus]

Can't see Everton going on a run so bad that it would be worse than the bottom 4, let alone any of the bottom 3. 

[gjohnson]

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Could say the same for Mourinho to some extent, but his ego will be the problem anywhere in England. But these guys are students of the game, they haven't suddenly turned into bad managers. I don't think either will be getting top level jobs in a hurry though, at least not while teams like Liverpool, City and Chelsea are sweeping up everything playing attacking football. They would probably do better doing what Simeone does at Atletico, take charge of an unfancied club and make them punch above their weight. 

Mourinho needs a team where he is the main man plain and simple. 

Yes he might be going a little stale now, but if he showed up here he'd be lauded and would be afforded a massive amount of patience. 

[Guest HTT II]

6 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Mourinho needs a team where he is the main man plain and simple. 

Yes he might be going a little stale now, but if he showed up here he'd be lauded and would be afforded a massive amount of patience. 

He’s someone I would trust to run any club top to bottom, but when he eventually leaves that’s the dilemma…

 

Ideally Rafa is a manager you give 5 years at least to reboot/rebuild and then use his expertise, contacts and formula to either find another Rafa or bring in the experts and specialists he comes with. 
 

Could he work with people not in his own circle? I think he can, but would want the final say and in football sadly there are too many egos off the pitch and politics and maneuvering.

 

Who would I trust more, a DOF or Rafa to bring in the right players needed? The actual football manager, coach and the one required to get any new player performing and getting value for money out of them.

 

If football wasn’t such mega business now, I think leaving it upto the managers would make the game more competitive and more about the team like it was in KK’s first era here as manager, where Norwich finished 3rd, Forest 3rd, where it was about the players signed by the manager as to how well a team did or didn’t and how they got them playing.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by HTT II

[Menace]

17 minutes ago, HTT II said:

He’s someone I would trust to run any club top to bottom, but when he eventually leaves that’s the dilemma…

 

Ideally Rafa is a manager you give 5 years at least to reboot/rebuild and then use his expertise, contacts and formula to either find another Rafa or bring in the experts and specialists he comes with. 
 

Could he work with people not in his own circle? I think he can, but would want the final say and in football sadly there are too many egos off the pitch and politics and maneuvering.

 

Who would I trust more, a DOF or Rafa to bring in the right players needed? The actual football manager, coach and the one required to get any new player performing and getting value for money out of them.

 

If football wasn’t such mega business now, I think leaving it upto the managers would make the game more competitive and more about the team like it was in KK’s first era here as manager, where Norwich finished 3rd, Forest 3rd, where it was about the players signed by the manager as to how well a team did or didn’t and how they got them playing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's done at the top though, he won't get another job for a European team again imo. I'm very grateful for the job he did at Newcastle, but he also bought some serious shite, I know they were not necessarily his first choice but christ, Hanley, Muto, Jacob Murphy Selz etc.. all horrific signings. Will be interesting to see where he goes from here

[Guest HTT II]

6 minutes ago, Menace said:

 

He's done at the top though, he won't get another job for a European team again imo. I'm very grateful for the job he did at Newcastle, but he also bought some serious shite, I know they were not necessarily his first choice but christ, Hanley, Muto, Jacob Murphy Selz etc.. all horrific signings. Will be interesting to see where he goes from here

Aye, I’d have to agree, but Rafa has always been or tried to always be about turning an unconventional or not so top team/or the best tea, into a European force or contender. If Ashley backed him the way he wanted, and he didn’t want silly money spent as it’s never been Rafa’s way, we’d have been pushing Leicester and West Ham by now for a place in the Europe League. 

[Guest HTT II]

17 minutes ago, Menace said:

 

He's done at the top though, he won't get another job for a European team again imo. I'm very grateful for the job he did at Newcastle, but he also bought some serious shite, I know they were not necessarily his first choice but christ, Hanley, Muto, Jacob Murphy Selz etc.. all horrific signings. Will be interesting to see where he goes from here

Every manager buys some duds, Rafa is no exception. I have long accepted that with any manager and try to judge a manager on how he identifies the right positions needing fulfilled and their characters and level and how he utilises said players as to their true benchmark in the transfer market and he was shopping at pound land basically, let’s not forget.
 

The end result is all that matters, first time promotion as Champions and mid-table stability with a solid defence and a progressive attack once he brought in Rondon and Almiron and a team of players who played regularly under hi, almost to a man improved under him individually for the team to become more than the sum of its parts and for me we massively over performed given the net spend and what he had to work with under Ashley and the restraints and at times defeatist nature of the entire ethos of the club on and off the pitch.

 

The man is a legend in my eyes and saved us and without him there would be no takeover, he helped engineer it. Just a shame he wasn’t around as manager on that glorious day when Ashley was no longer the owner. Oh white might have been/become…

 

Liverpool, many duds, CL, FA Cup and title runs. End result is what matters. I’d rather a manager who buys a few duds here and there but by the sheer virtue of his coaching ability can get results than having a shit managers who has to buy so well and buy top players or needs top players just to get results, it’s a game of coaching on the training field, not football manager at the end of the day.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by HTT II

[Guest HTT II]

Btw, of all our managers, I don’t think anyone has or ever will match KK in terms of the number of players signed that were not only decent, but often great and great value for money even for the time or the number of times he got right. Even those that didn’t work out, we either got our money back, made a profit on or didn’t make a big loss on.

[Happinesstan]

10 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Btw, of all our managers, I don’t think anyone has or ever will match KK in terms of the number of players signed that were not only decent, but often great and great value for money even for the time or the number of times he got right. Even those that didn’t work out, we either got our money back, made a profit on or didn’t make a big loss on.

Not many didn't work out. Even those that [in a sense] qualify, worked out but were improved upon quicker than expected. I'm thinking Malcolm Allen, Mark Robinson [injury ended him], Paul Kitson, Darren Huckerby.

Keegan rarely signed a dud. Maybe at other clubs his record is different, but I can't think of many at NUFC.

 

Edit: Keegan's ability to spot the talent and nurture it was second to none. Maybe Pep is similar, but you can't really compare as it doesn't really matter if he gets one or two wrong.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Happinesstan