Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[magvicar]

1 minute ago, Bishops Finger said:

How do I know what to ignore and what not to. I'm sorry mate but I just understand anyone apart from Bruce's media chums that could defend him. He's the worst manager I've ever seen in the premiership and I'm completely bemused as to how many times he's been employed as a manager. And I wouldn't put you on ignore just coz I don't agree with what you're saying, you might talk sense sometimes?

I'm not exactly defending Bruce anymore than I do with any other manager, including Benitez.

I've given Benitez his kudos and also Bruce but also slated the pair of them.

That goes for most other managers and generally this is how it works.

 

Some people's messiah's aren't everyone's messiah's.

[PauloGeordio]

4 minutes ago, magvicar said:

I'm not exactly defending Bruce anymore than I do with any other manager, including Benitez.

I've given Benitez his kudos and also Bruce but also slated the pair of them.

That goes for most other managers and generally this is how it works.

 

Some people's messiah's aren't everyone's messiah's.

??

[Chicken Dancer]

The football was not better under Bruce, like. Benitez was heavily criticised for that 0-1 defeat to Man City in 17/18 and it stuck (the 100pt season btw). Don't get me wrong, it was never free-flowing attacking football, but we used to create plenty chances in certain games.

 

Going toe-to-toe with that Man City team would have meant a 0-4 defeat or something, Rafa was wise to the importance of goal difference. We played pretty much the exact same game plan the following February and won 2-1, nobody said a word because we won. The same sort of thing is happening now - the media/socials is telling everyone that we are this disgusting, time-wasting mess whereas we who watch it every week know it not to be the case. 

 

It took a few transfer windows but the second half of 18/19 when we signed Almiron and were playing a settled side every week we looked every bit a decent team.

 

Benitez will always be a pragmatic manager, but to say the football was better under Bruce is utterly absurd and just outright wrong. I'd have loved to see Benitez able to sign a £40m striker. I understand that Benitez wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but Bruce was like a sunday league manager and that's being kind. The Geordie Pardew, but maybe that's being harsh on the silver fox.

[The Prophet]

[magvicar]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

I understand that Benitez wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but Bruce was like a sunday league manager and that's being kind. The Geordie Pardew, but maybe that's being harsh on the silver fox.

Very harsh to be fair.

[Likelylad]

Good Lord! What is happening in here?

[UncleBingo]

Still chuckling at have-a-go football. ??

[Dr Venkman]

4 hours ago, magvicar said:

You're entitled to your opinion on what you think I dress it up as but that's my opinion and I won't be wavering on it anymore than you will on what you think.

 

You've made an assumption there, that my opinion won't 'waver'. I change my mind when the evidence changes. Not having an open mind is another hallmark of the hard of thinking.

[magvicar]

1 minute ago, Dr Venkman said:

 

You've made an assumption there, that my opinion won't 'waver'. I change my mind when the evidence changes. Not having an open mind is another hallmark of the hard of thinking.

You're not going to change your mind on this specific argument against me, just as I won't.

 

[Dr Venkman]

 righto. It's been fun.

[St. Maximin]

2 hours ago, Chicken Dancer said:

The football was not better under Bruce, like. Benitez was heavily criticised for that 0-1 defeat to Man City in 17/18 and it stuck (the 100pt season btw). Don't get me wrong, it was never free-flowing attacking football, but we used to create plenty chances in certain games.

 

Going toe-to-toe with that Man City team would have meant a 0-4 defeat or something, Rafa was wise to the importance of goal difference. We played pretty much the exact same game plan the following February and won 2-1, nobody said a word because we won. The same sort of thing is happening now - the media/socials is telling everyone that we are this disgusting, time-wasting mess whereas we who watch it every week know it not to be the case. 

 

It took a few transfer windows but the second half of 18/19 when we signed Almiron and were playing a settled side every week we looked every bit a decent team.

 

Benitez will always be a pragmatic manager, but to say the football was better under Bruce is utterly absurd and just outright wrong. I'd have loved to see Benitez able to sign a £40m striker. I understand that Benitez wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but Bruce was like a sunday league manager and that's being kind. The Geordie Pardew, but maybe that's being harsh on the silver fox.

Good point, though don’t fully agree about the outcome of that Man City match. Many weak teams have had a go at home to them and got thumped, but many have got positive results too. I don’t really blame Rafa for that, but it wasn’t pretty to watch and we’d have been far less complimentary to a less successful manager for that. I don’t have an issue with pundits criticising it tbh - more annoyed Bruce wouldn’t get the same treatment. 
 

Also this might differ to others here, but I have reservations over him pointing out the limitations of our squad, which helped him get away with some pretty bad runs of form. There’s often not an awful lot the separates teams that scrape into the top 10 from those in the relegation zone. We had no more of a ‘Championship squad’ than plenty of other teams, or Bruce did at times. 

[wormy]

7 hours ago, UncleBingo said:

Which players did he get more out of exactly?

 

7 hours ago, magvicar said:

Most I reckon.

 

Cant believe I opened the thread to this and realised there was another five pages of bites.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Lock the fucking thread for a week or so

[Chicken Dancer]

9 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Good point, though don’t fully agree about the outcome of that Man City match. Many weak teams have had a go at home to them and got thumped, but many have got positive results too. I don’t really blame Rafa for that, but it wasn’t pretty to watch and we’d have been far less complimentary to a less successful manager for that. I don’t have an issue with pundits criticising it tbh - more annoyed Bruce wouldn’t get the same treatment. 
 

Also this might differ to others here, but I have reservations over him pointing out the limitations of our squad, which helped him get away with some pretty bad runs of form. There’s often not an awful lot the separates teams that scrape into the top 10 from those in the relegation zone. We had no more of a ‘Championship squad’ than plenty of other teams, or Bruce did at times. 

They only dropped points in 6 games that season to be fair. That was the best version of Pep’s city. 

[STM]

In my book, anyone going out of their way to criticise Rafa, wants their heads checked. I can just about accept that he's not everyone's cup of tea. He's very pragmatic, political and his charisma isn't something people will generally warm too but that's as far as it goes. He was a superb tactician.

 

On the other hand, anyone remotely suggesting Bruce and Rafa were comparable or even defending Bruce is the slightest, wants to get in the fucking bin.

 

Bruce was a fat fraud, who's made his way in management due to one reason, his mates in the ex footballer community. If you didn't know any better, you'd think the disingenuous lard arse used to hold legendary house parties for his team mates when he was Man United captain, thus exonerating him from any criticisms.

 

The two are polar opposites. Rafa was a fountain of footballing knowledge, Bruce a bufoon. Rafa cared deeply for the clubs and communities he was involved with, Bruce cared for himself. Rafa fought against the regime, Bruce worked with it. Rafa developed players, Bruce destroyed them. 

 

Rafa is more a geordie than that cunt will ever be. 

[Heron]

14 minutes ago, STM said:

In my book, anyone going out of their way to criticise Rafa, wants their heads checked. I can just about accept that he's not everyone's cup of tea. He's very pragmatic, political and his charisma isn't something people will generally warm too but that's as far as it goes. He was a superb tactician.

 

On the other hand, anyone remotely suggesting Bruce and Rafa were comparable or even defending Bruce is the slightest, wants to get in the fucking bin.

 

Bruce was a fat fraud, who's made his way in management due to one reason, his mates in the ex footballer community. If you didn't know any better, you'd think the disingenuous lard arse used to hold legendary house parties for his team mates when he was Man United captain, thus exonerating him from any criticisms.

 

The two are polar opposites. Rafa was a fountain of footballing knowledge, Bruce a bufoon. Rafa cared deeply for the clubs and communities he was involved with, Bruce cared for himself. Rafa fought against the regime, Bruce worked with it. Rafa developed players, Bruce destroyed them. 

 

Rafa is more a geordie than that cunt will ever be. 

In a nutshell.

[LV]

4 hours ago, UncleBingo said:

Still chuckling at have-a-go football. ??

Have a go at getting relegated while fucking off to Portugal every couple of weeks 

[MrRaspberryJam]

Magvicar is class. 

[St. Maximin]

3 hours ago, Chicken Dancer said:

They only dropped points in 6 games that season to be fair. That was the best version of Pep’s city. 

Oh aye they were incredible. Playing ultra-defensive is still risky though and only achieved in us not ruining the goal difference too much. They could have easily scored more on another day, though I guess that doesn’t matter as they didn’t. 
 

I’m agreeing by and large with the pro-Rafa comments here thankfully. Just don’t think it should be too black and white (ironically) that his achievements means we shouldn’t be happy with criticism. He certainly has his limitations and it’s fine to recognise those without making out they mean he’s a bad manager. Not like we don’t criticise our favourite players after all. 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by St. Maximin

[LV]

1 hour ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

Magvicar is class. 

He makes me miss @Rod

[MrRaspberryJam]

3 minutes ago, LV said:

He makes me miss @Rod

 

He'll be back. He's just on a 5 day bender somewhere. 

[Chicken Dancer]

5 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Oh aye they were incredible. Playing ultra-defensive is still risky though and only achieved in us not ruining the goal difference too much. They could have easily scored more on another day, though I guess that doesn’t matter as they didn’t. 
 

I’m agreeing by and large with the pro-Rafa comments here thankfully. Just don’t think it should be too black and white (ironically) that his achievements means we shouldn’t be happy with criticism. He certainly has his limitations and it’s fine to recognise those without making out they mean he’s a bad manager. Not like we don’t criticise our favourite players after all. 

 

 

 

Completely agree with everything you’ve said. He definitely had flaws of which I think stubbornness was the worst. You sort of know what you’re going to get with him too in terms of how you’ll set up, you just need to buy into it as a fan which thankfully we (mostly) did. St James’ never turned under him from what I can remember. I’m sure Bruce would have had some awkward afternoons had it not been for the majority of his tenure being behind closed doors. 

 

I do remember though always having confidence during the bad runs that he’d get it right eventually. Genuinely - despite league positions - I was never once worried about getting relegated under him (excluding 15/16). Just knew he’d get results when needed. The only time I ever really wavered was Leicester at home (think it was the 125 years game), but quickly remembered it was December and we would definitely stay up. 
 

Special bloke who was one of the only shining lights of a rotten period in the clubs history. Love Rafa me, always welcome at mine for a drink. 

[St. Maximin]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

Completely agree with everything you’ve said. He definitely had flaws of which I think stubbornness was the worst. You sort of know what you’re going to get with him too in terms of how you’ll set up, you just need to buy into it as a fan which thankfully we (mostly) did. St James’ never turned under him from what I can remember. I’m sure Bruce would have had some awkward afternoons had it not been for the majority of his tenure being behind closed doors. 

 

I do remember though always having confidence during the bad runs that he’d get it right eventually. Genuinely - despite league positions - I was never once worried about getting relegated under him (excluding 15/16). Just knew he’d get results when needed. The only time I ever really wavered was Leicester at home (think it was the 125 years game), but quickly remembered it was December and we would definitely stay up. 
 

Special bloke who was one of the only shining lights of a rotten period in the clubs history. Love Rafa me, always welcome at mine for a drink. 

Spot on, it’s a shame people would rather be ignorant and not examine why he was so popular here. I do hope he gets another decent job and shows what he’s capable of, though I feel there are some adjustments he might need to make, in line with how football in general has changed. I imagine he’s constantly studying and learning though, rather like our current manager. Really doubt that about the other bloke in between…

[Chicken Dancer]

4 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Spot on, it’s a shame people would rather be ignorant and not examine why he was so popular here. I do hope he gets another decent job and shows what he’s capable of, though I feel there are some adjustments he might need to make, in line with how football in general has changed. I imagine he’s constantly studying and learning though, rather like our current manager. Really doubt that about the other bloke in between…

Yeah I think time has made people view his time here negatively, completely forgetting how he was shit on like messrs Keegan, Shearer and Hughton before him. He really was one of us, and like someone else has said, 10x the Geordie Bruce will ever be.

 

Sadly I think his stock has fell to a level he won’t get another ‘top’ job, and I do think coaches like Benitez have been left behind by the modern game. Guardiola and Klopp (and others) have revitalised the way everyone tries to play now, and in my opinion probably the only way to be successful is to play the ‘modern’ way. 
 

Conte is the next bloke who will be seen in the Rafa mould. Fans won’t stand for being pragmatic now, especially those of clubs who think they should be at the top end of the table.

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

13 hours ago, magvicar said:

As I mentioned earlier in the posting, I enjoyed some of his time but his football became tedious 

 

 

 

This doesn’t align with my memories.  The last 5-6 months after we signed miggy was the best football we played under Rafa IMO. 
 

- relegation season - style didn’t really matter.  I don’t remember how good or bad we were to be honest.  I was just looking for the points 

- promotion season - we were, if anything, a little negative for the league we were in. We achieved the objective but it was not free flowing.  
- 1st season up. We did what we had to to stay up.  Played well sometimes,   sometimes very defensive. 
- 2nd season first half. Lots of bad luck with results.  Performances ok

- 2nd season second half with miggy.  We really started to play well. With an attacking threat at last.  We didn’t have maxim yet.  Miggy gave us someone who offered something and despite the lack of goals made a huge difference to the style. 
 

We lost Rafa, signed Bruce.  Got maxim so had two good attacking threats and took a huge step backwards in style of play. 
 

Using stats people compare Bruce and Rafa over Rafa’s two seasons in the league.  I think that’s totally unfair as we were a newly promoted team, building and improving.  Stats should compare the rafas last 6 months with Bruce’s time. 
 

Bruce’s football was poor defence.  Conceded 15-20 chances.  Prey they didn’t take them.  Hope we score on the break. 
 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by KetsbaiaIsBald