Various: Mike Ashley in talks with Sheikh Khaled bin Zayed Al Nehayan

[Collage]

Tough one:

 

Scenario 1: Ashley sells, but a CL club comes in for Rafa and he's off too

 

Scenario 2: Ashley doesn't sell, but Rafa stays

 

What would you choose?

[Optimistic Nut]

Good one...or...

 

Scenario 1: Ashley stays, Rafa stays, we spend around £60m net (or whatever the club generates)

Scenario 2: Ashley sells, Rafa goes to Arsenal, we get a new manager with around £100m net spend.

[Bimpy474]

Tough one:

 

Scenario 1: Ashley sells, but a CL club comes in for Rafa and he's off too

 

Scenario 2: Ashley doesn't sell, but Rafa stays

 

What would you choose?

 

I love Rafa and he's our best hope for success, but as this is hypothetical. Ashley gone (as in dead hopefully) would top anything else.

[Bimpy474]

I’d happily put up with Ashley if he never attended another game or his cronies and allowed Rafa to do what the fuck he liked with a reasonable budget every season. I think if Rafa ended up building a top 6 side, I don’t think it would require lots of money per season to maintain that as he tends to build a squad or team of younger players who can develop and become top class players to sustain such success. He didn’t spend much compared to others at Liverpool IIRC.

 

But he won't, how many more times do you need to see him fuck the club over before you realise thinking IF Ashley.......

 

Oh I realise enough and know full well what I’ve outlined just won’t happen. I’m Just saying that if it did, I’d settle for it kind of as a means to an end if you like.

 

Aye i guess so, least worse scenario if Ashley doesn't sell i suppose.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Here's a tough one though:

 

Scenario 1: Ashley sells, but a CL club comes in for Rafa and he's off too

 

Scenario 2: Ashley doesn't sell, but Rafa stays

 

What would you choose?

 

Obviously I’d love Rafa to stay, but under Ashley he is just the glue that’s been used to fix something broken. We will break again if Ashley remains and runs the club as he has, even with Rafa.

 

For me Ashley Out is more key to our future than Rafa In. He’s a great manager, perfect for us now and under any circumstances really, but he is not the only top manager out there or the only man for us ever.

 

I’d regretfully be...not happy, but OK with Ashley selling the club and Rafa leaving if that’s the way things went, but only if the new owners appointed a good manager as they are and always will be the key to any club, especially ours.

 

We had a decent team at times under Pardew, but he was rubbish. We have an average team under Rafa, but we aren’t rubbish and that’s because he’s great. We had a great team and great manager under KK and a great manager in Sir Bobby and very good team under him. We had Hughton who wasn’t a great manager, but he was a good fit, the right man and we did well despite not having a great side or even a top one.

 

And that’s what it’s about for me, the right manager.

 

Hopefully we get taken over, Rafa gets backed, we build a top team and go onto much success.

 

Any new owner would be mad to want to replace Rafa though. Mind I do fear if someone other than Stavely and her lot took the club over, they wouldn’t give Rafa much time and if we were to be taken over by someone like the owners of Man City I’d fear they would want someone more flamboyant, more modern or more instant if you like as I don’t think even with mega money Rafa would be able to deliver instant success and I don’t think he’d go for world renowned players anyway. For example I couldn’t see Rafa signing someone like Pogba for us, he’s far more likely to sign a Diame.

 

Such a takeover as what happened at City would worry me regarding our fans as well. Would Rafa’s football ever be good enough aesthetically? We are seeing how Man Utd fans are now using how City are playing as to how they should play under Mourinho which will eventually see him peddled. We are seeing it on a different scale at Arsenal with Wenger.

 

We’ve seen it already here at NUFC with Big Sam, albeit again on a different level or scale.

 

I don’t think we’d ever lose our local support in the way Man Utd and City have as we are a one City club and very partisan, if anything we’d probably attract a number of mackems. My worry if we were owned by people who could spend half a billion on players in a year, that fans would see that and see how we’d play under Rafa even if it brought a Cup or a title challenge and would want more and better. Me, I don’t like his football (too much) but I’ve been schooled by KK and then Sir Bobby. His football is on another planet to the likes of Pardew and Big Sam, however, and I really enjoyed our performance against Arsenal which was a good mixture of tactics, organisation, solid defending, counter attacks and effective positive football.

 

I know I’m going off on a tangent and worrying or thinking about too many what ifs which even after a takeover would be way down the line.

 

I say, let’s just enjoy Rafa while we have him and hope for the best, whatever goes on behind the scenes.

[Dave]

Giving the manager funds to spend is only one half of the problem with Ashley. Say Chelsea came in for Lascelles this summer and were offering £40m (not that I'm saying he's worth that, or good enough for them etc), does anyone really think we would not only reject that kind of money and not encourage bids, but also commit to keeping him to build on this season and show enough ambition to convince the player to stay?

 

I don't.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Giving the manager funds to spend is only one half of the problem with Ashley. Say Chelsea came in for Lascelles this summer and were offering £40m (not that I'm saying he's worth that, or good enough for them etc), does anyone really think we would not only reject that kind of money and not encourage bids, but also commit to keeping him to build on this season and show enough ambition to convince the player to stay?

 

I don't.

 

The fact that you're even having to ask this is just a sign that he just hasn't been around for a while and we're doing alright. I don't think there's a scenario in which this has anything but a terrible ending next season unless he sells.

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Giving the manager funds to spend is only one half of the problem with Ashley. Say Chelsea came in for Lascelles this summer and were offering £40m (not that I'm saying he's worth that, or good enough for them etc), does anyone really think we would not only reject that kind of money and not encourage bids, but also commit to keeping him to build on this season and show enough ambition to convince the player to stay?

 

I don't.

 

Ashley would probably be wanting to press the sell button at a 20m offer.

 

I don't think we are in a position to turn down certain offeres mind, I don’t think anyone but the elite clubs can and even then player power will dictate.

 

It’s a tough one. Say someone offers us 40m for Lascelles and Ashley says Rafa can have that to spend, would Rafa take that? I think ideally he’d want to keep Lascelles, but I’m also confident he would be confident finding someone somewhere who could become another Lascelles for us and him.

 

Selling your best players only ever leads to one thing... it’s catching up with Southampton for example.

 

Wages is my main concern under Ashley, I honestly think he believes players are mere employees like his SD staff who get paid enough and any more is too much. He doesn’t value a footballer as an asset other than a saleable one.

 

Our wage structure will see to it that players will eventually want to leave, especially the better ones, more than what we do or don’t do on the pitch or links to other clubs.

 

Maybe that’s a good thing the likes of Lascelles and Shelvey are not in the England squad or likely to be as that is as much a tapping up meeting than a get together for an international match when it comes to agents and players from other clubs.

[Unbelievable]

Giving the manager funds to spend is only one half of the problem with Ashley. Say Chelsea came in for Lascelles this summer and were offering £40m (not that I'm saying he's worth that, or good enough for them etc), does anyone really think we would not only reject that kind of money and not encourage bids, but also commit to keeping him to build on this season and show enough ambition to convince the player to stay?

 

I don't.

 

Ashley would probably be wanting to press the sell button at a 20m offer.

 

I don't think we are in a position to turn down certain offeres mind, I don’t think anyone but the elite clubs can and even then player power will dictate.

 

It’s a tough one. Say someone offers us 40m for Lascelles and Ashley says Rafa can have that to spend, would Rafa take that? I think ideally he’d want to keep Lascelles, but I’m also confident he would be confident finding someone somewhere who could become another Lascelles for us and him.

 

Selling your best players only ever leads to one thing... it’s catching up with Southampton for example.

 

Wages is my main concern under Ashley, I honestly think he believes players are mere employees like his SD staff who get paid enough and any more is too much. He doesn’t value a footballer as an asset other than a saleable one.

 

Our wage structure will see to it that players will eventually want to leave, especially the better ones, more than what we do or don’t do on the pitch or links to other clubs.

 

Maybe that’s a good thing the likes of Lascelles and Shelvey are not in the England squad or likely to be as that is as much a tapping up meeting than a get together for an international match when it comes to agents and players from other clubs.

 

Why would he take a proven liar’s word on something as vital as that for the club’s future?

[Optimistic Nut]

I don't think Benitez will stay here if we're selling players unless it's daft money. Like HTT says, there's 3, maybe 4 clubs in the world who wouldn't do that. Even if we're taken over I don't think Lascelles or the club would say no. As long as he's backed properly though and can buy what he needs I don't have a problem with that.

[Unbelievable]

I don't think Benitez will stay here if we're selling players unless it's daft money. Like HTT says, there's 3, maybe 4 clubs in the world who wouldn't do that. Even if we're taken over I don't think Lascelles or the club would say no. As long as he's backed properly though and can buy what he needs I don't have a problem with that.

 

Yeah well, therein lies the problem with Ashley doesn’t it? Let’s face facts here: Ashley is only interested in staying in this league and he will see us finishing comfortable midtable as a vindication for not spending much last summer or indeed this one, rather than a sign to speculate to accumulate and invest to move forward. I’m surprised any of this still needs spelling out after all these years. It’s takeover or bust for the future of the club with Rafa, plain and simple.

[Optimistic Nut]

Win-win really though. If he's not backed, Rafa walks and the heat cranks up again.

 

I think he would have been annoyed in the summer and even in January but I think understanding of the fact we'd just spent a year in the Championship without the big money that comes with just being in this league. If it gets to August 10th and he's not been able to get what he needs then I don't think he hangs around. If he's still here at the end of the window it more than likely means he's spent. I still think Ashley will sell soon, more than likely the next 6-12 months, but if we've spent then I don't think it's urgent or something that needs to be rushed.

[Skeletor]

Win-win really though. If he's not backed, Rafa walks and the heat cranks up again.

 

I think he would have been annoyed in the summer and even in January but I think understanding of the fact we'd just spent a year in the Championship without the big money that comes with just being in this league. If it gets to August 10th and he's not been able to get what he needs then I don't think he hangs around. If he's still here at the end of the window it more than likely means he's spent. I still think Ashley will sell soon, more than likely the next 6-12 months, but if we've spent then I don't think it's urgent or something that needs to be rushed.

 

How is that win-win? We've been there several times and he always stays.

[Dave]

We literally won't get anyone better than Rafa, either from an ability standpoint, his stature and what else he brings to a club in terms of vision and buy-in.

 

There is no scenario where him leaving equates to a win.

[HaydnNUFC]

I don't think it's extreme as the Hegelian dialectal synthesis a few have came to in some posts over the course of the season: no takeover equating to Rafa leaving. The word compete everyone saw in most of his interviews in the summer, his views on the season and future when away on the training camp in Spain. He wants the necessary funds to compete with your Burnleys, your Leicesters, your Evertons and your Bournemouths of the league. We've been able to do just that from January but with players who aren't ours; the total of money these players would cost is up for debate. But a budget of similar to what McClaren was given, £50m-£80m which the club has already received or is about to receive via the windfall of TV money would allow us to compete with those clubs and most likely better them, I think most would agree on that. How far the club can go is just whether Rafa is allowed that amount of money. Caulkin put it beautifully here as he always does:

 

It is not correct to say that Benítez will leave this summer if a takeover by Amanda Staveley, the businesswoman, does not proceed. What he recoils from more than anything else is the prospect of unemployment. Benítez is key to what Staveley hopes to put into practice at Newcastle — him staying was enshrined in each of her three previous bids for the club — but the same would apply to other prospective owners, Ashley included. He is an enormous asset.

 

It is entirely possible that Benítez will end up staying by default, but you would hope that Newcastle would have the wit to recognise what they have at their fingertips. It is not just about offering Benítez a bigger salary or the promise of transfer funds because those promises are no longer enough. They have been worthless. The club is aching for renewal at every level — the training ground, the academy — and that takes money, commitment and ambition.

 

Newcastle patently know what they have, which is why they are pursuing their most gilded employee with such vigour, but to be a big club, to be what Benítez thinks they can be, they have to truly behave like one. Is their goal to be “pound for pound,” the best they can be, as they once stated — that awful, pen-pusher’s phrase — or is it to win something, to stand for something, to strive and keep striving?

 

Yes, Sunday was fun. It was fun because in a sense it did not matter, because the pressure was off and politics and tension could be ignored for 90 minutes and a game football enjoyed on its own merits. In another respect, it mattered like hell. It mattered like breathing, like life itself. Newcastle United beat Arsenal at St James’ Park, just like they beat Manchester United, and the ground shook. If they only realised it, this is what Rafa’s Newcastle could be.

 

No one is expecting it, that "Newcastle [Ashley] would have the wit to recognise what they have at their fingertips". Read the word that Caulkin put just before that. Hope. That is what kills with NUFC.

[Bimpy474]

Ashley goes but Rafa goes too.

 

Sophie's choice that.

[xLiaaamx]

Can't be arsed with doom and gloom about the summer already. Just wanted to enjoy the games for a bit man. Why do we constantly have to talk about how the future's going to be shit.

[Lotus]

What version of reality am I in whereby I'm on a football forum and have to open a new tab to learn what a Hegelian dialectic is??

[loki679]

What version of reality am I in whereby I'm on a football forum and have to open a new tab to learn what a Hegelian dialectic is??

 

I was gonna say there's no way he's 18 years old

[mrmojorisin75]

People still expecting Ashley to do the right thing in the transfer market

 

Get to fuck. He needs to sell up or it's going to be a long, long summer again, just like every other fucking summer we've had under this fuck.

 

the issue this summer, as it was last summer, will be that even though we'll get this seasons TV money some of it will have already been spent on the players we signed last year (remembering we pay up front and noone else does) so the only thing ashley will allow us to spend will be whatever remains of the final payments from this season and whatever you get paid up front of next seasons money before the transfer window closes

 

i would be very surprised if that amounts to £80m like but you never know

 

also doesn't take into account the ludicrous way they sometimes decide to count wages in spending or the royal fuck factor of ashley maybe just deciding he doesn't want to

 

is anyone smart enough to look at how much we've spent vs. money to come in between now and september to estimate what might be available?

[Guest chopey]

Half of what Sky announce takeaway the money we lost going down divide by Leeds takeaway the season ticket price freeze = about a quarter you can make from player sales .

[Darth Crooks]

Ashley goes but Rafa goes too.

 

Sophie's choice that.

 

Sophie can fuck off then.

[mickthemagpie]

What version of reality am I in whereby I'm on a football forum and have to open a new tab to learn what a Hegelian dialectic is??

 

Hell, i'm glad i wasn't the only one!

[Collage]

Tough one:

 

Scenario 1: Ashley sells, but a CL club comes in for Rafa and he's off too

 

Scenario 2: Ashley doesn't sell, but Rafa stays

 

What would you choose?

 

I love Rafa and he's our best hope for success, but as this is hypothetical. Ashley gone would top anything else.

 

Yeah, that would be my knee-jerk answer. But as has been said, we won't get anyone better than Rafa. If he would commit long-term (i.e sign a new contract) and get, say the transfer money that McClaren got, the future would look bright. Potentially

[Raconteur]

It is the hope that kills you. See, I'm expecting an Ashley window. I've decided a takeover is too much to hope for, so I'm setting my sights lower.

 

I'm hoping that somewhere in the region of the £50-80m previously mentioned is made available for Rafa. I'm hoping that will cover Kenedy, a decent starting striker and another starter (AM? RW?). After that, we can sell players (that Rafa approves of selling, like Mitro) to fund other upgrades.

 

It shouldn't be too much to hope for - there are many who would say there is no hope under Ashley.

 

The sales is the big one - if there is a £40m bid for Lascelles it is entirely conceivable that Ashley would accept it before asking Rafa. You'd hope that Rafa would argue that he's irreplaceable and that £40m is not enough if he got the chance (and Ashley might be swayed by that).

 

In the worst case, you'd hope Rafa can find another gem like Lejeune. Oh, and the small matter of hoping Rafa doesn't walk over a sale against his will.

 

Back to hoping.