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Joelinton

Stifler

by Stifler
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toontownman

toontownman

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Ronson333 said:

I honestly think he’s one screamer away from being the ultimate beast. Just needs one to go in.

Think this too. Once one goes in, we might see things turn around on that front. It's like any barren striker run. He was always built up to be a monster finisher on the training ground prior to Howe. Odd how he seems to fall apart.

 

Also. A lot of talk about him getting called up for Brazil on this current form.. only two more years and he can naturalize and represent England as he comes into his peak years 😉 

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Lotus

Lotus

Posted
Posted

I realise this will be an unpopular opinion and I could be in for a flaming here but I think needs to do more at one end of the pitch or the other.

 

I'm not sure he can legitimately play as a top 10 (of the table, not the world) 6 or DM in neuspeak. I think if EH had seen the tactical discipline he would be there already. He's good enough at getting a foot in, is strong and has a good engine so it must be his positioning and anticipation of tracking the late runners. That's the defensive end of the pitch.

 

As for the other end, I don't think he carries the ball well enough, nor dribble effectively and he doesn't he play regular defence splitting passes/assists. He doesn't arrive late in the box and score either.

 

He's good bang in the middle, throwing himself about and disrupting the opposition and then laying the ball off if he gets it. I like him, I love his effort and everyone loves a redemption story but I don't see him as a Makele or Pirlo and at the other end he's not a Kaka or Rui Costa. I think ultimately he will have to consistently produce in one of those roles if he stays a CM. 

Personally I think from a tactical POV, he's most at risk from Bruno's arrival. I

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kingxlnc

kingxlnc

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lotus said:

I realise this will be an unpopular opinion and I could be in for a flaming here but I think needs to do more at one end of the pitch or the other.

 

I'm not sure he can legitimately play as a top 10 (of the table, not the world) 6 or DM in neuspeak. I think if EH had seen the tactical discipline he would be there already. He's good enough at getting a foot in, is strong and has a good engine so it must be his positioning and anticipation of tracking the late runners. That's the defensive end of the pitch.

 

As for the other end, I don't think he carries the ball well enough, nor dribble effectively and he doesn't he play regular defence splitting passes/assists. He doesn't arrive late in the box and score either.

 

He's good bang in the middle, throwing himself about and disrupting the opposition and then laying the ball off if he gets it. I like him, I love his effort and everyone loves a redemption story but I don't see him as a Makele or Pirlo and at the other end he's not a Kaka or Rui Costa. I think ultimately he will have to consistently produce in one of those roles if he stays a CM. 

Personally I think from a tactical POV, he's most at risk from Bruno's arrival. I

I see what you're saying and it's a point well made but midfielders are made in different moulds. Could he be like a Jordan Henderson role for Liverpool? Or a Clarence Seedorf, he was a bit of both type of midfielder. Or even a Toni Kroos type. Not hugely attacking, nor hugely defensive either of them but very good midfielders who were integral to how their teams played. In terms of ex NUFC players is he similar to a Jenas (albeit a stronger version), someone mobile, athletic who can go from box to box without possessing huge speed or other attributes, a generalist? 

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kingxlnc

kingxlnc

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

His style of play reminds me of Dembele and there's absolutely a place in our team for that kind of player.

Well Dembele a lot of Spurs players have said was key to their success and it all started to go downhill after he left. Trippier in fact said they would have won the CL final if Dembele was playing. So that all bodes well :)

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Outremont

Outremont

Posted
Posted (edited)

Dembele had more creative attributes. 
 

I think it’s a point well made. To be elite he needs to improve his passing ala Kante. At the moment he is playing a McTominay disrupter role. We need more than that in the long run.

 

 

Edited by Outremont

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Lotus said:

I realise this will be an unpopular opinion and I could be in for a flaming here but I think needs to do more at one end of the pitch or the other.

 

I'm not sure he can legitimately play as a top 10 (of the table, not the world) 6 or DM in neuspeak. I think if EH had seen the tactical discipline he would be there already. He's good enough at getting a foot in, is strong and has a good engine so it must be his positioning and anticipation of tracking the late runners. That's the defensive end of the pitch.

 

As for the other end, I don't think he carries the ball well enough, nor dribble effectively and he doesn't he play regular defence splitting passes/assists. He doesn't arrive late in the box and score either.

 

He's good bang in the middle, throwing himself about and disrupting the opposition and then laying the ball off if he gets it. I like him, I love his effort and everyone loves a redemption story but I don't see him as a Makele or Pirlo and at the other end he's not a Kaka or Rui Costa. I think ultimately he will have to consistently produce in one of those roles if he stays a CM. 

Personally I think from a tactical POV, he's most at risk from Bruno's arrival. I

 

It's not a bad post, I think a lot of people will have had similar thoughts, but it's assuming midfielders value is either purely at one end of the pitch or the other. Seems to me what Joelinton provides is the engine, the box to box stuff where he is dominating the central area which is surely the essence of what you want from a midfielder. Bear in mind, some teams play with two defensive midfielders, depending on their style of football. Vieira and Petit from Wenger's legendary Arsenal team weren't really defensive or offensive midfielders, they just totally dominated the central area and destroyed the opposition.

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Outremont

Outremont

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Dembele scored 7 goals in 181 games for Spurs.

You’re right, take a look at this:

 

Dembele 243 apps, 12 goals, 12 assists

J7 93 apps, 7 goals, 5 assists 

 

J7 equivalent apps to Dembele

18 goals (+6), 13 assists (+1)

 

 

 

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Lotus

Lotus

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, TRon said:

 

It's not a bad post, I think a lot of people will have had similar thoughts, but it's assuming midfielders value is either purely at one end of the pitch or the other. Seems to me what Joelinton provides is the engine, the box to box stuff where he is dominating the central area which is surely the essence of what you want from a midfielder. Bear in mind, some teams play with two defensive midfielders, depending on their style of football. Vieira and Petit from Wenger's legendary Arsenal team weren't really defensive or offensive midfielders, they just totally dominated the central area and destroyed the opposition.

I get that point and I’m not saying I’m right, it’s just a feeling I’ve got.

 

Thing is, Vieira and Petit did actually contribute at either end as well. That’s what I think JL needs to bring to his game. I’m not saying he can’t. Just that right now, he isn’t.

 

Vieira and Petit also had the benefit of Bergkamp dropping from deep but seeing as we’re not playing with a 10 I think both CMs, i.e. JL and JW have to show some stats in one box or the other. JW is tbf. 
 

That’s why I have a gut feeling, once Bruno has made the physical adaptation he’ll replace JL in that position. I would hope JL proves very effective in a new position, perhaps in Fraser’s spot but slightly deeper and more central, proving cover for when Trips is back and making bombing runs down the right. 
JL might also do better exerting his physicality against a fullback rather than a CB. 

 

Guess we’ll see.

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Guest HTT II

Guest HTT II

Posted
Posted

As good as he’s been for us since Howe took over, I’m hoping we start next season with a whole new midfield that includes Bruno at the heart of it all.

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lotus said:

I get that point and I’m not saying I’m right, it’s just a feeling I’ve got.

 

Thing is, Vieira and Petit did actually contribute at either end as well. That’s what I think JL needs to bring to his game. I’m not saying he can’t. Just that right now, he isn’t.

 

Vieira and Petit also had the benefit of Bergkamp dropping from deep but seeing as we’re not playing with a 10 I think both CMs, i.e. JL and JW have to show some stats in one box or the other. JW is tbf. 
 

That’s why I have a gut feeling, once Bruno has made the physical adaptation he’ll replace JL in that position. I would hope JL proves very effective in a new position, perhaps in Fraser’s spot but slightly deeper and more central, proving cover for when Trips is back and making bombing runs down the right. 
JL might also do better exerting his physicality against a fullback rather than a CB. 

 

Guess we’ll see.

 

What did Vieira and Petit contribute at either end specifically that Joelinton doesn't? Obviously they were better players, but from what I recall they did a similar sort of job, just generally bossed the pitch box to box without specialising in either defending or attacking. Don't recall either of them scoring loads of goals, and Joelinton tracks back and helps out defence pretty diligently.

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Guest HTT II

Guest HTT II

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

What did Vieira and Petit contribute at either end specifically that Joelinton doesn't? Obviously they were better players, but from what I recall they did a similar sort of job, just generally bossed the pitch box to box without specialising in either defending or attacking. Don't recall either of them scoring loads of goals, and Joelinton tracks back and helps out defence pretty diligently.

They didn’t score goals or many. But they were far from just defensive players, their entire attack or press at the time which was kind of new to the league despite KK’s side doing it in our debut season in the PL (but, not from midfield), was down to Vieira and Petit and got even extra legs when Gilberto signed who was for my money, Vieira if he could play football.

 

 

Edited by HTT II

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, HTT II said:

They didn’t score goals or many. But they were far from just defensive players, their entire attack or press at the time which was kind of new to the league despite KK’s side doing it in our debut season in the PL (but, not from midfield), was down to Vieira and Petit and got even extra legs when Gilberto signed who was for my money, Vieira if he could play football.

 

 

 

 

That was my point as well really, they weren't really defensive or offensive, they were just box to box, bossing the central area of the pitch in tandem. Obviously they were fantastic footballers technically as well, but it's sort of a similar role to what Joelinton's doing, without either being a specialist in either defensive or offensive positions. Again, I'm not saying JL is in any way that calibre of player, just a similar mold.

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