Papavasiliou Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 On 19/03/2022 at 21:39, Jaqen said: For all the 'selfish' talk doesn't he have one of the highest chances created stats in the league? There's always a weird narrative around him. From faking injuries to not wanting to try because Bruce got binned or caring more about his board game. He's a raw talent that has essentially carried our whole attack and creativity since he's been here. He's going to have off days, it's normal. Even if the 1 in 5 good games rhetoric was true that was still have him miles ahead of the likes of Murphy and Almiron. Everyone wants to find a "Hot take" so they just parrot a load of shite that seems correct if you're not actually paying attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Why do people get annoyed by stats? He’s v. good at those things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 On 20/03/2022 at 07:10, Smal said: He was good against Liverpool too. Everyone was rubbish vs Cambridge, Man City, Arsenal and Leicester. It’s just nonsense. he was top class against Leeds. Criricism is fair enough. I think he has weaknesss most notably his stamina and ability to stay fit. Sometimes his decision making isn’t perfect but nowhere as bad as people make out. People shouldn’t forget what he has done though. He’s basically kept us in the league for two seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I don't get the 'uninterested' criticism of him Surely if he was uninterested he wouldn't be picking up the ball and trying to create chances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 He doesn't work hard off the ball, he clearly dislikes that side of the game, he also takes the huff on the pitch, which is annoying. Those are my only two criticisms of him. He's still one of our best players, he still has a big future for us but he's not immune from criticism. I got called arrogant for suggesting that we might outgrow him the other day. My point was that if we have ambitions to challenge for league titles, we can't have ANYONE who doesn't work for the team. ASM wouldn't get a game for any of the current top four or Spurs because none of their managers would accept him only giving 90% when tracking back or pressing ball. He wants to be a ballon d'or winner, well he needs to have the correct attitude of one on the pitch. I love watching him play and he has the ability to do whatever he wants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, STM said: He doesn't work hard off the ball, he clearly dislikes that side of the game, he also takes the huff on the pitch, which is annoying. Those are my only two criticisms of him. He's still one of our best players, he still has a big future for us but he's not immune from criticism. I got called arrogant for suggesting that we might outgrow him the other day. My point was that if we have ambitions to challenge for league titles, we can't have ANYONE who doesn't work for the team. ASM wouldn't get a game for any of the current top four or Spurs because none of their managers would accept him only giving 90% when tracking back or pressing ball. He wants to be a ballon d'or winner, well he needs to have the correct attitude of one on the pitch. I love watching him play and he has the ability to do whatever he wants. He wouldn't get away with it at even the likes of West Ham, Southampton or Palace. I don't understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Howe wants us to play with more of a high press, which is very different from what we did under Bruce. And so it's just not looking like a great fit at all. But hey ... some stats and charts show he dribbles a lot and creates chances so nothing else at all matters. Just throw him out there and let him do what he wants regardless of what the manager is trying to do with the rest of the team. Urgh. Edited March 22, 2022 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bompeter Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Has he not played every game under Howe in which he was fit? "Urgh" <- are you twelve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Bompeter said: Has he not played every game under Howe in which he was fit? "Urgh" <- are you twelve? A completely nonsensical reply as expected Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I don't remember two of our previous best-ever players in recent history, and coincidentally not only Allan's compatriots but who also played the same position, in Mr Ginola and Mr Robert, missing out on lineups because they didn't press enough. You build your team around players like these, not make them fit in it. C. Ronaldo is a prime example. If Allan doesn't fit in the system thatHowe wants to implement, then we'll have to watch him go. And it'll be painful, because in a team that is built around 10 people working hard off the ball to carry him, he's going to be glorious. But if you're going to build a team to carry a player to win a league, that player isn't Allan, it's an Ibrahimovic or a CRonaldo, the true 'greats'. He's still my favourite player mind, I really hope he can learn to do the off-the-ball work that Howe wants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Ginola and Robert had the benefit of playing in decent sides that didn't have to work quite so hard off the ball to make up for their shortcomings. Maxi should play for us and will play for us for the foreseeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandrotastico Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, HawK said: I don't remember two of our previous best-ever players in recent history, and coincidentally not only Allan's compatriots but who also played the same position, in Mr Ginola and Mr Robert, missing out on lineups because they didn't press enough. You build your team around players like these, not make them fit in it. C. Ronaldo is a prime example. If Allan doesn't fit in the system thatHowe wants to implement, then we'll have to watch him go. And it'll be painful, because in a team that is built around 10 people working hard off the ball to carry him, he's going to be glorious. But if you're going to build a team to carry a player to win a league, that player isn't Allan, it's an Ibrahimovic or a CRonaldo, the true 'greats'. He's still my favourite player mind, I really hope he can learn to do the off-the-ball work that Howe wants. I honestly don't think anyone wants him tracking back and sprinting. Just hold the shape and occasionally press when triggered. If one player (him) doesn't bother, it alls falls apart. Little effort here and there and he'd be golden. It's not a lot to ask really... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 31 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: Ginola and Robert had the benefit of playing in decent sides that didn't have to work quite so hard off the ball to make up for their shortcomings. Maxi should play for us and will play for us for the foreseeable. Good point, can't disagree with that And I really hope he does ^^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I just want to see him starting 5+ games and see how he does. He looking immense in that first Everton game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Chris_R said: I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. That's because you're not actually paying attention to what anyone is saying, but instead just getting overly emotional about a player you like being criticized for things he clearly needs to improve on. It's not like anyone on here is saying anything new either. This has been ASM's issue his whole career. It's the reason why he was sold from Nice, despite arguably being their most talented player at the time. However, Vieira is a complete no nonsense manager, and didn't appreciate ASM's lateness for training and efforts on the pitch. With the likes of Mike Ashley and Bruce here, and therefore with limited funds and a basic tactical approach, then ASM worked a treat and was absolutely vital for us. Now with the takeover and the direction Howe is going in, probably not so much, and it's all up to ASM really, because going forward there will be money to bring in other skilful and creative players that can do the work the manager requires for his setup, as that is no longer going to be a problem. Edited March 24, 2022 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Chris_R said: I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. No-one does. We want him to sort out his deficiencies (which he clearly has) to ensure his inclusion and be one of the greats. If he doesn't do that then yes - we'll be looking to move on at some point. Just acknowledging that as a possibility though doesn't mean people want it to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 People have to remember he's one of those players that treads a fine line between being brilliant and a match winner or not having a very good game. People have to accept because of the way he plays, it's not always going to come off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, HawK said: I don't remember two of our previous best-ever players in recent history, and coincidentally not only Allan's compatriots but who also played the same position, in Mr Ginola and Mr Robert, missing out on lineups because they didn't press enough. You build your team around players like these, not make them fit in it. C. Ronaldo is a prime example. If Allan doesn't fit in the system thatHowe wants to implement, then we'll have to watch him go. And it'll be painful, because in a team that is built around 10 people working hard off the ball to carry him, he's going to be glorious. But if you're going to build a team to carry a player to win a league, that player isn't Allan, it's an Ibrahimovic or a CRonaldo, the true 'greats'. He's still my favourite player mind, I really hope he can learn to do the off-the-ball work that Howe wants. As much as I agree with your point like, I still think that ASM's lack of doing anything off the ball sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the likes of Ginola, Robert, or Ben Arfa. The game has changed loads in that time as well. I think I have a pretty high threshold for players who put most of their energy into attacking, but I do think ASM takes the piss at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 29 minutes ago, Scoot said: People have to remember he's one of those players that treads a fine line between being brilliant and a match winner or not having a very good game. People have to accept because of the way he plays, it's not always going to come off. To be fair that's not really the issue being brought up with him in the main. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abacus Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I think you should be able to carry a flair player, at times. But that requires the rest of the team to not just be good enough to do their jobs competently, but to do it well. Just look at the difference that having an actual left back and (briefly) a real quality right back made on the rest of the team. I think the trouble is that so much of our squad has needed upgrading for so long, that's it's really hard to tell if he is someone who is worth carrying occasionally or not. Love watching St Max play and he can win a game on his own, but I can recognise his flaws too. I just think it's quite hard to judge him until the squad in general has been upgraded. I.e. to what extent has he been masking our weaknesses, and to what extent could he perform better with other players around him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 52 minutes ago, KaKa said: To be fair that's not really the issue being brought up with him in the main. So what is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Scoot said: So what is it? It's all over the last few pages man. The main issue is his work rate defensively in the current pressing setup, not how much stuff doesn't come off. I think all that would be far more palatable if he was more committed to the work the team does when they don't have the ball. It looks particularly bad when he's just lost it and then stays down sat on the pitch moaning at the ref while the team is then having to defend without him. Edited March 24, 2022 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, KaKa said: It's all over the last few pages man. The main issue is his work rate defensively in the current pressing setup, not how much stuff doesn't come off. I think all that would be far more palatable if he was more committed to the work the team does when they don't have the ball. It looks particularly bad when he's just lost it and then stays down sat on the pitch moaning at the ref while the team is then having to defend without him. I do apologise man! Edit: having just skipped through the last 3 pages, my point still stands like. Edited March 24, 2022 by Scoot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 https://theathletic.com/3208810/2022/03/26/saint-maximins-france-dream-looks-unlikely-but-howe-can-use-it-to-make-him-even-better?source=user-shared-article Decent article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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