Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Smal]

He was good against Liverpool too. Everyone was rubbish vs Cambridge, Man City, Arsenal and Leicester. It’s just nonsense.

[Happinesstan]

To be fair, we always get a performance out of him, it's just that sometimes it's not his scene. He needs to learn to allow others to take centre stage, when the script calls for it.

It's not essential for the next couple f seasons, but if we are going to be a top team, with Max as a big part of that, then he needs to be able to take a back-seat without any fuss. I'm not saying he's difficult, he seems too happy to be that, but he seems to struggle after missing out. I'm certain this is something that can be improved upon, and Howe seems to provide a healthy environment for such development. If he does that in the next two years we'll be singing his name for years to come. Give him a full pre-season under Howe before we judge him, I think.

[Smal]

 

Only any good 1 in 5 games apparently. 

[The Prophet]

Has this cunt been hounded out yet?

[loki679]

45 minutes ago, Smal said:

 

Only any good 1 in 5 games apparently. 

 

Not sure I'd trust a stat that has ASM better than De Bruyne, Son and Sterling, like

[Kid Icarus]

48 minutes ago, Smal said:

 

Only any good 1 in 5 games apparently. 

 

That's a very specific metric tbh. It's not a criticism, it's his strength, but there aren't many other players who do things in the same way he does as exclusively as he does

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

 

Only any good 1 in 5 games apparently. 

 

Maybe because the game of football and 'Shots and Key Passes Following Carries' aren't the same thing.

Stats like this don't tell you anywhere near as much as you own lying eyes. People don't need stats to tell me who played well and who didn't outside of Championship Manager.

Better people than us, actual top professional coaches, don't seem to venture far from the appraisal many of us have of erratic. Hence why he's here and not playing for France. Despite the dribbling, shots/key passes/carries, keepy uppy stats.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Papavasiliou]

On 19/03/2022 at 21:39, Jaqen said:

For all the 'selfish' talk doesn't he have one of the highest chances created stats in the league? 

 

There's always a weird narrative around him. From faking injuries to not wanting to try because Bruce got binned or caring more about his board game. 

 

He's a raw talent that has essentially carried our whole attack and creativity since he's been here. He's going to have off days, it's normal. Even if the 1 in 5 good games rhetoric was true that was still have him miles ahead of the likes of Murphy and Almiron. 

Everyone wants to find a "Hot take" so they just parrot a load of shite that seems correct if you're not actually paying attention. 

[The College Dropout]

Why do people get annoyed by stats? He’s v. good at those things. 

[Rafalove]

On 20/03/2022 at 07:10, Smal said:

He was good against Liverpool too. Everyone was rubbish vs Cambridge, Man City, Arsenal and Leicester. It’s just nonsense.

he was top class against Leeds.

 

Criricism is fair enough. I think he has weaknesss most notably his stamina and ability to stay fit. Sometimes his decision making isn’t perfect but nowhere as bad as people make out. People shouldn’t forget what he has done though. He’s basically kept us in the league for two seasons.

[joeyt]

I don't get the 'uninterested' criticism of him

 

Surely if he was uninterested he wouldn't be picking up the ball and trying to create chances

[STM]

He doesn't work hard off the ball, he clearly dislikes that side of the game, he also takes the huff on the pitch, which is annoying. Those are my only two criticisms of him.

 

He's still one of our best players, he still has a big future for us but he's not immune from criticism.

 

I got called arrogant for suggesting that we might outgrow him the other day. My point was that if we have ambitions to challenge for league titles, we can't have ANYONE who doesn't work for the team. ASM wouldn't get a game for any of the current top four or Spurs because none of their managers would accept him only giving 90% when tracking back or pressing ball.

 

He wants to be a ballon d'or winner, well he needs to have the correct attitude of one on the pitch.

 

I love watching him play and he has the ability to do whatever he wants.

[KaKa]

53 minutes ago, STM said:

He doesn't work hard off the ball, he clearly dislikes that side of the game, he also takes the huff on the pitch, which is annoying. Those are my only two criticisms of him.

 

He's still one of our best players, he still has a big future for us but he's not immune from criticism.

 

I got called arrogant for suggesting that we might outgrow him the other day. My point was that if we have ambitions to challenge for league titles, we can't have ANYONE who doesn't work for the team. ASM wouldn't get a game for any of the current top four or Spurs because none of their managers would accept him only giving 90% when tracking back or pressing ball.

 

He wants to be a ballon d'or winner, well he needs to have the correct attitude of one on the pitch.

 

I love watching him play and he has the ability to do whatever he wants.

 

He wouldn't get away with it at even the likes of West Ham, Southampton or Palace. I don't understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp.

 

Howe wants us to play with more of a high press, which is very different from what we did under Bruce. And so it's just not looking like a great fit at all.

 

But hey ... some stats and charts show he dribbles a lot and creates chances so nothing else at all matters. Just throw him out there and let him do what he wants regardless of what the manager is trying to do with the rest of the team. 

 

Urgh.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by KaKa

[Bompeter]

Has he not played every game under Howe in which he was fit? 

 

"Urgh" <- are you twelve? 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Bompeter said:

Has he not played every game under Howe in which he was fit? 

 

"Urgh" <- are you twelve? 

 

A completely nonsensical reply as expected

[mighty__mag]

 

 

[HawK]

I don't remember two of our previous best-ever players in recent history, and coincidentally not only Allan's compatriots but who also played the same position, in Mr Ginola and Mr Robert, missing out on lineups because they didn't press enough. You build your team around players like these, not make them fit in it. C. Ronaldo is a prime example. 

 

If Allan doesn't fit in the system thatHowe wants to implement, then we'll have to watch him go. And it'll be painful, because in a team that is built around 10 people working hard off the ball to carry him, he's going to be glorious. But if you're going to build a team to carry a player to win a league, that player isn't Allan, it's an Ibrahimovic or a CRonaldo, the true 'greats'. 

 

He's still my favourite player mind, I really hope he can learn to do the off-the-ball work that Howe wants.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Ginola and Robert had the benefit of playing in decent sides that didn't have to work quite so hard off the ball to make up for their shortcomings. 

Maxi should play for us and will play for us for the foreseeable. 

[Oregon_Geordie]

18 minutes ago, HawK said:

I don't remember two of our previous best-ever players in recent history, and coincidentally not only Allan's compatriots but who also played the same position, in Mr Ginola and Mr Robert, missing out on lineups because they didn't press enough. You build your team around players like these, not make them fit in it. C. Ronaldo is a prime example. 

 

If Allan doesn't fit in the system thatHowe wants to implement, then we'll have to watch him go. And it'll be painful, because in a team that is built around 10 people working hard off the ball to carry him, he's going to be glorious. But if you're going to build a team to carry a player to win a league, that player isn't Allan, it's an Ibrahimovic or a CRonaldo, the true 'greats'. 

 

He's still my favourite player mind, I really hope he can learn to do the off-the-ball work that Howe wants.

I honestly don't think anyone wants him tracking back and sprinting. Just hold the shape and occasionally press when triggered. If one player (him) doesn't bother, it alls falls apart. Little effort here and there and he'd be golden. It's not a lot to ask really...

[HawK]

31 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Ginola and Robert had the benefit of playing in decent sides that didn't have to work quite so hard off the ball to make up for their shortcomings. 

Maxi should play for us and will play for us for the foreseeable. 

 

Good point, can't disagree with that

 

And I really hope he does ^^

[Chris_R]

I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just want to see him starting 5+ games and see how he does. He looking immense in that first Everton game.

[KaKa]

18 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. 

 

That's because you're not actually paying attention to what anyone is saying, but instead just getting overly emotional about a player you like being criticized for things he clearly needs to improve on.

 

It's not like anyone on here is saying anything new either. This has been ASM's issue his whole career. It's the reason why he was sold from Nice, despite arguably being their most talented player at the time. However, Vieira is a complete no nonsense manager, and didn't appreciate ASM's lateness for training and efforts on the pitch. 

 

With the likes of Mike Ashley and Bruce here, and therefore with limited funds and a basic tactical approach, then ASM worked a treat and was absolutely vital for us. Now with the takeover and the direction Howe is going in, probably not so much, and it's all up to ASM really, because going forward there will be money to bring in other skilful and creative players that can do the work the manager requires for his setup, as that is no longer going to be a problem.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by KaKa

[Cf]

16 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. 

 

No-one does. We want him to sort out his deficiencies (which he clearly has) to ensure his inclusion and be one of the greats. If he doesn't do that then yes - we'll be looking to move on at some point. Just acknowledging that as a possibility though doesn't mean people want it to happen.

[Scoot]

People have to remember he's one of those players that treads a fine line between being brilliant and a match winner or not having a very good game. People have to accept because of the way he plays, it's not always going to come off.