Various: N-O has lost the plot over potential end of Mike Ashley's tenure

[Whitley mag]

To think Saudi's or bust is feckin mental imo. I get why that argument can be made but if there are others interested, and they are genuine. To say no because they're not the Saudi's is crazy.

 

There’s been other interest for 13 years, I’m interested in the group who have finally had a bid accepted. This group are also not leveraging the club with debt and have the financial muscle to transform us.

 

 

[Whitley mag]

Some massively baseless speculation going on.

 

The PL cant discuss TV rights with the Saudis whilst also taking about the takeover. That amounts to, at best, a conflict of interest and at worst, corruption.

 

They cant say "we will pass this, if you bid for tv rights." 

 

They are looking to see if SA can be properly linked to piracy, which should worry everyone, since they almost certainly were involved.

 

If Bein are being consulted, it's because they are providing evidence against the Saudi's, not because they are discussing future TV rights FFS.

 

Like it or not, this takeover is on a knife edge and when Masters said the other week, "we will discuss that when we get to it," it shows now that this part of the process had not properly begun.

 

As it confidential can the premier league discuss the takeover with bein ?

 

How do you not know Masters is trying to keep everyone happy to try and avoid legal action. Surely that is the best outcome for premier league.

 

 

The PL can speak to Bein, provided that it's part of evidence gathering. They can speak to whoever they want but when they do, presumably said party will also have to sign confidentiality forms.

 

This is a PL investigation, not a Staveley one or a Qatar/Bein one. They choose what is relevant and important with regards to the tests in which they have set.

 

If they can find any reasonable evidence that breaks any of their tests, then they will block the takeover until whatever the issues is has been sorted.

 

I suspect that the french courts have a much more stringent set of thresholds than that of the PL, making proving piracy to the PL easier.

 

Is that not the key though ‘until whatever the issues are have been sorted’.

 

I’m convinced with the individuals we have involved in this, they will ensure it is sorted.

 

 

[Bimpy474]

To think Saudi's or bust is feckin mental imo. I get why that argument can be made but if there are others interested, and they are genuine. To say no because they're not the Saudi's is crazy.

 

There’s been other interest for 13 years, I’m interested in the group who have finally had a bid accepted. This group are also not leveraging the club with debt and have the financial muscle to transform us.

 

I get that and i agree, I'm saying if some other group were genuine, its daft to just dismiss it.

 

It'll be a moot point anyhoo, if the Saudi bid goes through like we all hope.

[Judge Holden]

It'll go through man.

[Yorkie]

I couldn't give a fuck about the human rights angle either. I don't care where Saudi Arabia are as a country in terms of human rights, where they have been or where they are going. I just want their money for us as a club and the investment they will bring to our city. That's not to say I don't care about human rights. I do.

 

I'm not convinced by that last sentence given what comes before it...

 

I'm probably being pedantic because I understand the sentiment and feel like we should be able to support a football team without feeling implicated in atrocities in the Middle East. But "I don't give a fuck, I just want their money" is the kind of comment on social media that's got the likes of Jonathan Liew frothing and generalising the wider fanbase as a set of people 'showing the middle finger' to anything that isn't solely to do with the progress of their team. Which I don't think actually is a fair representation; it's just emotion and frustration at the delay.

[Bimpy474]

It'll go through man.

 

Aye, think that'll be the case and we can finally be free.

[Guest godzilla]

Some massively baseless speculation going on.

 

The PL cant discuss TV rights with the Saudis whilst also taking about the takeover. That amounts to, at best, a conflict of interest and at worst, corruption.

 

They cant say "we will pass this, if you bid for tv rights." 

 

They are looking to see if SA can be properly linked to piracy, which should worry everyone, since they almost certainly were involved.

 

If Bein are being consulted, it's because they are providing evidence against the Saudi's, not because they are discussing future TV rights FFS.

 

Like it or not, this takeover is on a knife edge and when Masters said the other week, "we will discuss that when we get to it," it shows now that this part of the process had not properly begun.

 

As it confidential can the premier league discuss the takeover with bein ?

 

How do you not know Masters is trying to keep everyone happy to try and avoid legal action. Surely that is the best outcome for premier league.

 

 

The PL can speak to Bein, provided that it's part of evidence gathering. They can speak to whoever they want but when they do, presumably said party will also have to sign confidentiality forms.

 

This is a PL investigation, not a Staveley one or a Qatar/Bein one. They choose what is relevant and important with regards to the tests in which they have set.

 

If they can find any reasonable evidence that breaks any of their tests, then they will block the takeover until whatever the issues is has been sorted.

 

I suspect that the french courts have a much more stringent set of thresholds than that of the PL, making proving piracy to the PL easier.

 

You still have to be able to show that that they have made their decision of proof, based on factual evidence; otherwise if it is knocked back and ends up in court they are leaving themselves wideopen. Maybe they do have the evidence that PIF have direct links to the piracy and also they can show that PIF is not a separate legal entity - only time will tell on both as none of us know.

[Raconteur]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

[Judge Holden]

 

Not sure what to make of this

 

I’m fairly sure BeIn let it be known that they would be seeking some sort of compensation if the deal goes through, possibly withholding future payments (if any)

 

Richard Masters has probably been already assured that SA will take up the slack if this were to happen and would be acquiring the rights next time around.

 

If BeIn had to let go of a hundred staff over the decline in revenue relating to BeoutQ, they might not be in a position to bid next time anyway.

 

In Steve Wraith's most recent YouTube video, Neil Mitchell (@geordiedentist) suggested that their is possibly a negotiation underway to have BeIn pay a reduced EMEA region PL license fee and PIF pay a PL license fee covering Saudi televising of PL games.  If this negotiation is underway it would require the PL to speak to BeIn and to convince them to agree.

 

 

That Dentist knows nothing.

[Guest godzilla]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

[duo]

This take over 

 

I just want to know either way - sick of this dragging on.

[ED209]

Everyone is just making stuff up, speculating, I’m getting bored of it now.

 

I’m going to stick to following random planes on flight radar.

[Raconteur]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

 

Of course everything is subject to law. That doesn’t mean you can sue a corporation because they won’t let you join according to their properly constituted rules and by-laws.

[Kid Icarus]

 

Saudi haven’t done anything worse than what most other nations have done historically, they were just stupid enough to get caught in the act where Khashoggi was concerned.

 

 

The number of countries who have murdered journalists is quite short - and the list of those who have dismembered journalists shorter still. Let's not p*ss on our legs and say it's raining.

 

I’d argue that the 2007 video that Wikileaks put out of the Americans killing several journalists and civilians and laughing about it was equally as chilling.

 

The USA and the UK for that matter have far more blood on their hands than Saudi do overall. So let’s not sit up on some moral high horse.

 

I’m not saying we should condone any of it by the way, we shouldn’t, but if you’re going to criticise one nation right now you should also be able to turn that  magnifying glass on others too.

 

None of the other nations are buying us. If they were you'd see exactly the same objection to it from exactly the same people.

[Guest godzilla]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

 

Of course everything is subject to law. That doesn’t mean you can sue a corporation because they won’t let you join according to their properly constituted rules and by-laws.

 

If they don't agree with the decision then of course they can take them to court. It happens all the time in business and industry across the world. You believe what you want to though.

[Raconteur]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

 

Of course everything is subject to law. That doesn’t mean you can sue a corporation because they won’t let you join according to their properly constituted rules and by-laws.

 

If they don't agree with the decision then of course they can take them to court. It happens all the time in business and industry across the world. You believe what you want to though.

 

No need for the condescension - especially when you’ve made no attempt whatsoever to actually answer the question initially posed: on what basis do people think the consortium can sue the PL if the takeover is denied. As you so eloquently and intelligently said, everything is subject to law. So on what basis, in law, would the consortium have to sue the PL if they fail the O&D test?

 

And even though you’re being a dick, I’ll give you a start. One basis might be that the consortium would sue on the grounds that the O&D test wasn’t properly applied - but that is a lunatic case, legally. The rules are malleable and it’s a great big “if”. So I don’t buy it.

 

So, again, on what basis could the consortium sue the PL?

[duo]

Everyone is just making stuff up, speculating, I’m getting bored of it now.

 

I’m going to stick to following random planes on flight radar.

It's getting really boring. 

[Wandy]

I couldn't give a fuck about the human rights angle either. I don't care where Saudi Arabia are as a country in terms of human rights, where they have been or where they are going. I just want their money for us as a club and the investment they will bring to our city. That's not to say I don't care about human rights. I do.

 

I'm not convinced by that last sentence given what comes before it...

 

I'm probably being pedantic because I understand the sentiment and feel like we should be able to support a football team without feeling implicated in atrocities in the Middle East. But "I don't give a fuck, I just want their money" is the kind of comment on social media that's got the likes of Jonathan Liew frothing and generalising the wider fanbase as a set of people 'showing the middle finger' to anything that isn't solely to do with the progress of their team. Which I don't think actually is a fair representation; it's just emotion and frustration at the delay.

 

I don't care if clickbait journalists are frothing either. In addition though, I'm afraid it might be an idea to accept that they are correct on this, and the wider fanbase are showing a middle finger to anything that isn't soley to do with the progress of the club.

 

Like I say, I do care about human rights and want to live in a fair, progressive & unprejudiced world. But being owned by a regime who have a contentious record in human rights won't taint any ejnoyment I get out of NUFC being successful under them.

[Teasy]

 

Not sure what to make of this

 

I’m fairly sure BeIn let it be known that they would be seeking some sort of compensation if the deal goes through, possibly withholding future payments (if any)

 

Richard Masters has probably been already assured that SA will take up the slack if this were to happen and would be acquiring the rights next time around.

 

If BeIn had to let go of a hundred staff over the decline in revenue relating to BeoutQ, they might not be in a position to bid next time anyway.

 

I love these imaginary best case scenarios that you all convince yourselves of.

 

You're a real weirdo man.

[TRon]

I couldn't give a fuck about the human rights angle either. I don't care where Saudi Arabia are as a country in terms of human rights, where they have been or where they are going. I just want their money for us as a club and the investment they will bring to our city. That's not to say I don't care about human rights. I do.

 

I'm not convinced by that last sentence given what comes before it...

 

I'm probably being pedantic because I understand the sentiment and feel like we should be able to support a football team without feeling implicated in atrocities in the Middle East. But "I don't give a fuck, I just want their money" is the kind of comment on social media that's got the likes of Jonathan Liew frothing and generalising the wider fanbase as a set of people 'showing the middle finger' to anything that isn't solely to do with the progress of their team. Which I don't think actually is a fair representation; it's just emotion and frustration at the delay.

 

I don't care if clickbait journalists are frothing either. In addition though, I'm afraid it might be an idea to accept that they are correct on this, and the wider fanbase are showing a middle finger to anything that isn't soley to do with the progress of the club.

 

Like I say, I do care about human rights and want to live in a fair, progressive & unprejudiced world. But being owned by a regime who have a contentious record in human rights won't taint any ejnoyment I get out of NUFC being successful under them.

 

Especially considering football lost it's soul long ago. It's been up for the highest bidder for decades now, if this was a fair world where every club was forced to rely on their own self generated income, we'd be one of the top clubs in the world anyway. But we're not thanks to clubs being owned by billionaires from Russia or China, so I'll take the Saudi investment quite happily thank you. Them above all others in fact. By a long way.

[Guest godzilla]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

 

Of course everything is subject to law. That doesn’t mean you can sue a corporation because they won’t let you join according to their properly constituted rules and by-laws.

 

If they don't agree with the decision then of course they can take them to court. It happens all the time in business and industry across the world. You believe what you want to though.

 

No need for the condescension - especially when you’ve made no attempt whatsoever to actually answer the question initially posed: on what basis do people think the consortium can sue the PL if the takeover is denied. As you so eloquently and intelligently said, everything is subject to law. So on what basis, in law, would the consortium have to sue the PL if they fail the O&D test?

 

And even though you’re being a dick, I’ll give you a start. One basis might be that the consortium would sue on the grounds that the O&D test wasn’t properly applied - but that is a lunatic case, legally. The rules are malleable and it’s a great big “if”. So I don’t buy it.

 

So, again, on what basis could the consortium sue the PL?

 

Wasn't being condescending at all if that's your opinions and thoughts then so be it. I already answered the question, they could go to court due to the Premier League decision, being in their opinion incorrect, based on the evidence provided. Whether that's based on the responsibility for the piracy, PIF being a separate legal entity or even something else. It would then be up to the court to decide if the decision based on the evidence provided was correct. As I said before, it happens all across the world daily.

[manorpark]

I’m curious to know why some people think the PIF/PCP/RB consortium will sue the Premier League if the takeover is denied. The PL can do virtually what they like as long as they keep to their flexible and malleable  rules.

 

Everything is subject to law. If the PIF/PCP/RB consortium don't agree with the Premier Leagues 'reasonable opinion' decision based on the evidence provided then I will be very surprised if they don't take it to court (after the appeal process has played out). 

 

Of course everything is subject to law. That doesn’t mean you can sue a corporation because they won’t let you join according to their properly constituted rules and by-laws.

 

If they don't agree with the decision then of course they can take them to court. It happens all the time in business and industry across the world. You believe what you want to though.

 

No need for the condescension - especially when you’ve made no attempt whatsoever to actually answer the question initially posed: on what basis do people think the consortium can sue the PL if the takeover is denied. As you so eloquently and intelligently said, everything is subject to law. So on what basis, in law, would the consortium have to sue the PL if they fail the O&D test?

 

And even though you’re being a dick, I’ll give you a start. One basis might be that the consortium would sue on the grounds that the O&D test wasn’t properly applied - but that is a lunatic case, legally. The rules are malleable and it’s a great big “if”. So I don’t buy it.

 

So, again, on what basis could the consortium sue the PL?

 

Wasn't being condescending at all if that's your opinions and thoughts then so be it. I already answered the question, they could go to court due to the Premier League decision, being in their opinion incorrect, based on the evidence provided. Whether that's based on the responsibility for the piracy, PIF being a separate legal entity or even something else. It would then be up to the court to decide if the decision based on the evidence provided was correct. As I said before, it happens all across the world daily.

 

 

If the decision goes against them, the entire consortium will sue the Premier League for the reasons Godzilla lists, and probably a few more reasons.

 

That is why there is not a "cat in hell's chance" of this bid being rejected, in my opinion. The PL are just trying to 'squeeze' as much out of the consortium (assurances re alleged piracy, etc, etc) before announcing the approval.

 

In my opinion, that is!

[Wandy]

I think if anyone was likely to sue it would be Ashley. I imagine he is urgently in need of that £300m. Staveley wouldn’t be far behind him too if she loses that £17m. Having said that, I doubt that this could be dragged through the courts. More likely to see all parties shuffle away in embarrassment IMO but, even if there is a court case, I don’t see how that would help the sale of the club to the Saudis as the deal would be over and the club available again to be bought by a new party.

[Tiresias]

The thing of it to me is regardless of all the other ethical issues, it is fundamentally wrong for premier league clubs to be owned by state level actors, let alone billionaire businessmen of dubious repute. It leaves clubs, which are important community 'assets' with historic and cultural value to fans subject to the whims of things way beyond merely the world of football. Clubs should be fan owned so safeguard their wellbeing and to make sure they are run better. Unfortunately it is probably impossible to force the clubs to sell even small proportions of the clubs.

 

If the league does not bring in fan ownership it should at least but stringent rules in place about how businessmen operate clubs in the league. The league can and should say you are not welcome in the league unless you meet these standards to prevent owners like Ashley happening.

 

Unfortunately the set up is no accident, it is set up to bring in maximum investment so a few clubs have all the money. This system is designed to get investment like Saudi money in. I will not refuse myself the joy of ambition and investment in the club, I will not resent any excitement among fans. I also know in my ideal running of the league that would, without all other leagues instituting the same rules, lead to all the top talent deserting the league for pay elsewhere. It is not illogical to have it how they do, it brings the big players, it brings the product in the league that generates the investment. It just rips the soul out of the whole thing and endangers the wellbeing of clubs long term (look at the amount of debt Man United are in). That is the tradeoff. All my anger is at the whole running of football. I am not interested in this competition some have going on of 'oh but Qatar are also evil'. Yes they are all cunts. Yes there are people acting unscripulously who are pretending to be moral crusaders and maybe people getting political points out of the Khasoggi thing it's all just a swamp from which noone comes out looking great. I just don't think all this stuff is, for me with the qualms over it just an appendum. Football clubs should never have been allowed to be political pawns of whole states, even if it wasn't Saudi Arabia, even if it was some nice state noone hates like fucking New Zealand who bought us to boost tourism (not sure budget would be that great) it is still utterly wrong, albeit not much more than being 100% owned by random billionaires. The league should take some action to safeguard the clubs for the fans in the long term and normally will not do so in order to make a quick buck.

 

If the league rejects the ownership it will not be over 'moral' grounds, contrary to some it is not a test of the morals of Saudi Arabia. If it does it will be over Saudi Arabia piracy issue and I guess (and yes a lot of people are on long chains of logic of what is going on here) and of course a league can't completely ignore concerns of broadcast partners. Neither can it renegotiate the deal with Saudi Arabia mid takeover as that would be clear bribery. Even if they pretend it is some kind of moral stand against a state like Saudi Arabia owning the club that is like drawing a line in the sand so far out to sea you are already drowning. I do slightly fear this, that it will be thrown out so the league can pretend to look principled regardless of the legal reasoning. I dread a long drawn out legal battle as if the takeover hasn't taken long enough as is.

 

I appreciate the 'don't care just want it done view' completely, I am mostly with you. I just think it's possible to feel a little sad at how football has got to this point, but also joyous that Ashley is gone and some money is coming to the club and the area. I will not resent that, and I hope, as much as I think it's wooly nonsense, that Saudi Arabian engagement in the world will improve things (although that reminds me of when Brendan Rogers after losing to sunderland with liverpool said he was proud to show the poor people of the north east his brand of football a bit, we are not some shining beacon of righteousness, it is again, an issue that sports clubs should not be mere playthings of teh super rich and of nation states). I think it's miserable how much shit seems to have come out of it, now maybe that's on me for dissenting a little from the isn't it all so completely wonderful line, but all teh attacks on everyone in the media etc feels slightly uneeded. There are some dishonest folk around, there is also a completely broken model of funding sports journalism which means even the good journos are reliant on clickbait a bit. It would be better if there was a quality filter but I do also think it is a respectable opinion to say that the takeover should be blocked, even if I disagree as it's a systemic issue not with this takeover by itself.

 

I am really looking forward to ambition and to enjoying the football again. I hope we get there, I really do. But again I won;t be cheerleading our owners, more cordially hoping it is positive in the end and hoping some reform comes for how clubs are run one day. I also do slightly fear  now if it will happen, it is ridiculous how long it is taking, almost like they want SA to withdraw interest so they are freed of making a lose-lose decision from their PR point of view.

[Craig H]

Regarding the piece in the Financial Times, where does it state the meetings are in relation to the takeover?

 

Bien Sports have an interest in the Premier League in respect of broadcasting matches. Up until recently those matches may not have proceeded therefore the product bought had changed. There have numerous reports of TV companies potentially seeking a partial refund of their outlay.

 

Masters more likely than met with them regarding those issues and would not necessarily discuss the Owners and Directors test, I would assume he wouldn’t be involved in the actual test but would be the one to sign it off.

 

So the report would be accurate in that they met and Bien are up in arms about the takeover but it doesn’t have to follow that this was the topic discussed but it makes better story by implying something may have occurred.

 

Looking at the O&DT it comes down to disqualification of a director. Who is the director that is causing concern? The PIF or NCUK don’t have as I see the prince as a director and it’s it’s probably being looked at with regards to a legal entity.

 

I note the term to sue being used. If there is a finding under Rule f.5 there is a right to appeal the finding to a tribunal (a bit like Keegan v Ashley) that’s where it could get costly for the PL.

 

If it goes through in the near future I wouldn’t be surprised if it occurs around the time of the games coming back.