Various: N-O has lost the plot over potential end of Mike Ashley's tenure

[Jackie Broon]

I think Bein are applying loads of pressure and PL are working with PIF to mitigate. Bein could be pushing for a rebate due to lack of exclusivity unless assurances are made re. the piracy or to just scupper the test.

 

PL don't have enough reason to reject whilst also not wanting to spend ££ on a rebate so stuck in the middle. Could also be discussions with SA/PIF on reduced fee for broadcast rights so they can "make good" on Bein.

 

Probably all bollocks of course 

 

And would also potentially be a matter for the Serious Fraud Office if that were happening. All the PL can legally consider is whether the proposed directors have committed a criminal offence (and their rules say they will give a decision within 5 working days). If they were to have come to the conclusion that they have, or not able to make up their mind, but were negotiating some kind of financial settlement to resolve it, that's potentially a case of extortion.

[Choppy Chop Chop]

FFS I'll be dead and buried before this is resolved

[Tiresias]

I mean it's a stupid situation all round no doubt, but I do think that some people have talked themselves completely into this saudi arabia are 100% in the right and there is no justification at all for Bein to be involved. Bein pay for TV rights from the league. They are engaged with this long standing squabble with Saudi Arabia for power in the region i guess but feels pretty childish all round. I don't really care who started it, but lot on here seem to think it's black and white etc. Say you were handsomely paying another business for a service when your arch nemesis signs up to be a stakeholder in that business of course you would kick up a fuss, especially when your arch nemesis has been using lets say less than ethical and above the board methods of gaining an advantage over you. Once they own Newcastle lets not forget the league is essentially owned by the clubs in it, it gives them sway and of course SA would then be seeking to dismiss any Qatari influence from the league at all. All silly stuff really.

 

And then they did have the gall to suggest they only had to be asked to stop the piracy. That is not something that will make the premier league happy cos it's obvious total bullshit. I had hoped that the anti piracy stuff was an explicit deal to be allowed in rather than just a show of good faith, but they may have blown that good faith with that bs.

 

I'm not saying the league should be taking this bloody long, it is ridiculous, and I'm not saying the league should care what Bein has to say, but Qatar are acting as anyone would expect them to act in the circumstances, the league can't flat out ignore the concerns of one of their major customers and are entitled too to feel a bit concerned they are about to become pawns in a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

 

Even if you ignore all the sportwashing etc it should also be of some concern to everyone, as short term fun the saudi ownership will be, if one of the main motivations of buying the club is to one up Qatar, what are the long term motivations? What if something changes geopolitically and the Qatar squabble is pushed aside, and they decide actually Newcastle United is an expensive folly? Of course all this mega wealth coming in the league is totally vulnerable to this but it still seems like people should be a little more concerned. Ultimately, in my opinion, it is obscene for nation states to own football clubs. Now it is ridiculous to single us out while Man City etc are all funded ridiculously, but I do fear for the clubs in the premier league in decades to come when this financial bubble bursts and the billionaire investors suddenly lose interest.

 

Anyway, sorry to clarify, I am very much excited to see the back of Ashley and god feel this club needs some ambition. the flaws in it are systemic and not the fault of the fans or even club or buyers themselves so I am going to enjoy it. I am a little more worried than some that it will be rejected I think, and I also think maybe there is no absolute right in this and no cartoon villains. Qatar are almost certainly right in thinking that if SA take over NUFC they will lose broadcast rights. Do people expect them to just roll over? All this talk of dodgy influence etc? Where have you been for the last few decades? Football and all sport is completely run by gangsters and chancers, why do people have any expectation of fair open transparency? That's why we need fan owned clubs etc. The thing of it is, you can have sustainable ownership of clubs with transparency and fans having proper say and safeguards, but then you don't get Trillionaires parachuting in and buying all the best players etc. The former is not the world we live in.

[Choppy Chop Chop]

I mean it's a stupid situation all round no doubt, but I do think that some people have talked themselves completely into this saudi arabia are 100% in the right and there is no justification at all for Bein to be involved. Bein pay for TV rights from the league. They are engaged with this long standing squabble with Saudi Arabia for power in the region i guess but feels pretty childish all round. I don't really care who started it, but lot on here seem to think it's black and white etc. Say you were handsomely paying another business for a service when your arch nemesis signs up to be a stakeholder in that business of course you would kick up a fuss, especially when your arch nemesis has been using lets say less than ethical and above the board methods of gaining an advantage over you. Once they own Newcastle lets not forget the league is essentially owned by the clubs in it, it gives them sway and of course SA would then be seeking to dismiss any Qatari influence from the league at all. All silly stuff really.

 

And then they did have the gall to suggest they only had to be asked to stop the piracy. That is not something that will make the premier league happy cos it's obvious total bullshit. I had hoped that the anti piracy stuff was an explicit deal to be allowed in rather than just a show of good faith, but they may have blown that good faith with that bs.

 

I'm not saying the league should be taking this bloody long, it is ridiculous, and I'm not saying the league should care what Bein has to say, but Qatar are acting as anyone would expect them to act in the circumstances, the league can't flat out ignore the concerns of one of their major customers and are entitled too to feel a bit concerned they are about to become pawns in a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

 

Even if you ignore all the sportwashing etc it should also be of some concern to everyone, as short term fun the saudi ownership will be, if one of the main motivations of buying the club is to one up Qatar, what are the long term motivations? What if something changes geopolitically and the Qatar squabble is pushed aside, and they decide actually Newcastle United is an expensive folly? Of course all this mega wealth coming in the league is totally vulnerable to this but it still seems like people should be a little more concerned. Ultimately, in my opinion, it is obscene for nation states to own football clubs. Now it is ridiculous to single us out while Man City etc are all funded ridiculously, but I do fear for the clubs in the premier league in decades to come when this financial bubble bursts and the billionaire investors suddenly lose interest.

 

Anyway, sorry to clarify, I am very much excited to see the back of Ashley and god feel this club needs some ambition. the flaws in it are systemic and not the fault of the fans or even club or buyers themselves so I am going to enjoy it. I am a little more worried than some that it will be rejected I think, and I also think maybe there is no absolute right in this and no cartoon villains. Qatar are almost certainly right in thinking that if SA take over NUFC they will lose broadcast rights. Do people expect them to just roll over? All this talk of dodgy influence etc? Where have you been for the last few decades? Football and all sport is completely run by gangsters and chancers, why do people have any expectation of fair open transparency? That's why we need fan owned clubs etc. The thing of it is, you can have sustainable ownership of clubs with transparency and fans having proper say and safeguards, but then you don't get Trillionaires parachuting in and buying all the best players etc. The former is not the world we live in.

 

Im 68 I want fun now

[Guest chopey]

FFP only works for established clubs, I personally enjoy when rich men spend loads on player's , I enjoyed Blackburn and Chelsea's rise and fall. Mallorca  have a bit of money now with ambition but FFP means their budget is £30 million a season, Barca pay one player more than that, how can they ever catch up.

[Guest awaymag]

I mean it's a stupid situation all round no doubt, but I do think that some people have talked themselves completely into this saudi arabia are 100% in the right and there is no justification at all for Bein to be involved. Bein pay for TV rights from the league. They are engaged with this long standing squabble with Saudi Arabia for power in the region i guess but feels pretty childish all round. I don't really care who started it, but lot on here seem to think it's black and white etc. Say you were handsomely paying another business for a service when your arch nemesis signs up to be a stakeholder in that business of course you would kick up a fuss, especially when your arch nemesis has been using lets say less than ethical and above the board methods of gaining an advantage over you. Once they own Newcastle lets not forget the league is essentially owned by the clubs in it, it gives them sway and of course SA would then be seeking to dismiss any Qatari influence from the league at all. All silly stuff really.

 

And then they did have the gall to suggest they only had to be asked to stop the piracy. That is not something that will make the premier league happy cos it's obvious total bullshit. I had hoped that the anti piracy stuff was an explicit deal to be allowed in rather than just a show of good faith, but they may have blown that good faith with that bs.

 

I'm not saying the league should be taking this bloody long, it is ridiculous, and I'm not saying the league should care what Bein has to say, but Qatar are acting as anyone would expect them to act in the circumstances, the league can't flat out ignore the concerns of one of their major customers and are entitled too to feel a bit concerned they are about to become pawns in a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

 

Even if you ignore all the sportwashing etc it should also be of some concern to everyone, as short term fun the saudi ownership will be, if one of the main motivations of buying the club is to one up Qatar, what are the long term motivations? What if something changes geopolitically and the Qatar squabble is pushed aside, and they decide actually Newcastle United is an expensive folly? Of course all this mega wealth coming in the league is totally vulnerable to this but it still seems like people should be a little more concerned. Ultimately, in my opinion, it is obscene for nation states to own football clubs. Now it is ridiculous to single us out while Man City etc are all funded ridiculously, but I do fear for the clubs in the premier league in decades to come when this financial bubble bursts and the billionaire investors suddenly lose interest.

 

Anyway, sorry to clarify, I am very much excited to see the back of Ashley and god feel this club needs some ambition. the flaws in it are systemic and not the fault of the fans or even club or buyers themselves so I am going to enjoy it. I am a little more worried than some that it will be rejected I think, and I also think maybe there is no absolute right in this and no cartoon villains. Qatar are almost certainly right in thinking that if SA take over NUFC they will lose broadcast rights. Do people expect them to just roll over? All this talk of dodgy influence etc? Where have you been for the last few decades? Football and all sport is completely run by gangsters and chancers, why do people have any expectation of fair open transparency? That's why we need fan owned clubs etc. The thing of it is, you can have sustainable ownership of clubs with transparency and fans having proper say and safeguards, but then you don't get Trillionaires parachuting in and buying all the best players etc. The former is not the world we live in.

 

All well and good but where in the O&D test does it say, we will consult with your broadcast partners and see what they think?  FFS, there is either a process that is followed or there isn't.    Personally I think the PL are weak and serious questions need to be asked when this is finished as its clear the current process, whatever that is, is not being followed and the PL integrity is now being brought into question!

[Stifler]

FFP doesn’t work. People forget that contrary to popular belief, it was actually around for Chelsea’s takeover.

FFP as others have pointed out, is designed to keep the poor clubs poor. It is designed to stop the rich clubs. If it was then even the likes of Man Utd being the best part of £1bn in debt should have been deducted points long ago.

[Hhtoon]

I think Bein are applying loads of pressure and PL are working with PIF to mitigate. Bein could be pushing for a rebate due to lack of exclusivity unless assurances are made re. the piracy or to just scupper the test.

 

PL don't have enough reason to reject whilst also not wanting to spend ££ on a rebate so stuck in the middle. Could also be discussions with SA/PIF on reduced fee for broadcast rights so they can "make good" on Bein.

 

Probably all bollocks of course 

 

And would also potentially be a matter for the Serious Fraud Office if that were happening. All the PL can legally consider is whether the proposed directors have committed a criminal offence (and their rules say they will give a decision within 5 working days). If they were to have come to the conclusion that they have, or not able to make up their mind, but were negotiating some kind of financial settlement to resolve it, that's potentially a case of extortion.

 

Well I suppose if someone made the complaint and it was phrased like that.

[The Bonk]

You’re assuming the PL had any integrity to begin with.

[Jackie Broon]

Not at all on my part, I've said all along that it's probably open for interpretation either way to some extent (although, I feel that a decision that any of the proposed directors are demonstrably guilty of an actual criminal offence is would be very shaky).

[Sima]

 

Liverpools crowds dropped to mid 30,000s under Roy Hodgson when they were mid table and mid 20s under Souness for certain games. Can't believe some of the shite I've been reading about them lately. 30 years of hurt apparently? In that time they've probably scooped around 15 trophies.

 

Close, 13.

 

More than we have in our entire history.  That includes two European Cups.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

I mean it's a stupid situation all round no doubt, but I do think that some people have talked themselves completely into this saudi arabia are 100% in the right and there is no justification at all for Bein to be involved.

 

not sure this is correct myself, certainly frustration being displayed at the level of influence and involvement they appear to be trying to have given they are one of many broadcasters the PL deal with

 

from my pov their complaints over piracy are fair enough, as per WTO report, and should saudi take steps to change they should allow the takeover

 

i think the main feeling on the part of our fans is no matter what SA do wrt piracy qatar aren't going to accept it and will keep throwing money at trying to get the takeover stopped for political reasons, not that SA are 100% in the right

[Thorpinho]

The frustration is that it is a "confidential" process not capable of influence by third parties, yet is openly being influenced by a tv company. The number 1 priority should be the fact they have a pathetic make up the numbers owner in ashley, and that a more competitive and properly run club can be made. Instead the league, yet again and since the early 90s, demonstrates itself to be the absolute bitch of any tv company with money.

[mrmojorisin75]

The frustration is that it is a "confidential" process not capable of influence by third parties, yet is openly being influenced by a tv company. The number 1 priority should be the fact they have a pathetic make up the numbers owner in ashley, and that a more competitive and properly run club can be made. Instead the league, yet again and since the early 90s, demonstrates itself to be the absolute bitch of any tv company with money.

 

nah not buying that like, the test itself specifically has provision for piracy issues and one of their own commercial partners had a claim against SA for pirating their own fucking product man

 

it's the letters from MP's, khashoggis mrs etc. that extend beyond their remit that's been troubling to me, the piracy thing is 100% legit and they shouldn't give up from their pov imo

[Jackie Broon]

The frustration is that it is a "confidential" process not capable of influence by third parties, yet is openly being influenced by a tv company. The number 1 priority should be the fact they have a pathetic make up the numbers owner in ashley, and that a more competitive and properly run club can be made. Instead the league, yet again and since the early 90s, demonstrates itself to be the absolute bitch of any tv company with money.

 

nah not buying that like, the test itself specifically has provision for piracy issues and one of their own commercial partners had a claim against SA for pirating their own fucking product man

 

it's the letters from MP's, khashoggis mrs etc. that extend beyond their remit that's been troubling to me, the piracy thing is 100% legit and they shouldn't give up from their pov imo

 

But the issue of piracy has to equate to a criminal offence by the prospective director under the Digital Economy Act to influence the test. If the PL were to decide that such an offence has been committed the director simply fails the test, any requirement of a settlement to resolve that would be straying into very dodgy territory for the PL with the level of scrutiny there could be of this.

 

IMO there seems to be more of a basis for the test to be failed in relation to Khashoggi (the CIA reportedly concluded that MbS was directly responsible for ordering the murder) or for the hacking of Jeff Bezos' phone via a message from MbS himself, both of which would be criminal offences in this country with sentences of over 12 months. A government failing to crack down of piracy doesn't seem likely to constitute a criminal offence.

[mrmojorisin75]

The frustration is that it is a "confidential" process not capable of influence by third parties, yet is openly being influenced by a tv company. The number 1 priority should be the fact they have a pathetic make up the numbers owner in ashley, and that a more competitive and properly run club can be made. Instead the league, yet again and since the early 90s, demonstrates itself to be the absolute bitch of any tv company with money.

 

nah not buying that like, the test itself specifically has provision for piracy issues and one of their own commercial partners had a claim against SA for pirating their own fucking product man

 

it's the letters from MP's, khashoggis mrs etc. that extend beyond their remit that's been troubling to me, the piracy thing is 100% legit and they shouldn't give up from their pov imo

 

But the issue of piracy has to equate to a criminal offence by the prospective director under the Digital Economy Act to influence the test. If the PL were to decide that such an offence has been committed the director simply fails the test, any requirement of a settlement to resolve that would be straying into very dodgy territory for the PL with the level of scrutiny there could be of this.

 

IMO there seems to be more of a basis for the test to be failed in relation to Khashoggi (the CIA reportedly concluded that MbS was directly responsible for ordering the murder) or for the hacking of Jeff Bezos' phone via a message from MbS himself, both of which would be criminal offences in this country with sentences of over 12 months. A government failing to crack down of piracy doesn't seem likely to constitute a criminal offence.

 

where have you got this from?  the test rules clearly state that the PL can bin off an application if they believe someone is guilty of an offence, not even convicted in another country or whatever, just in their own judgement

 

it's been the reason for a lot of pessimism in this thread tbh

[FloydianMag]

Time for some humour.

 

https://twitter.com/NUFCRobb/status/1276824422612164610

[Jackie Broon]

The frustration is that it is a "confidential" process not capable of influence by third parties, yet is openly being influenced by a tv company. The number 1 priority should be the fact they have a pathetic make up the numbers owner in ashley, and that a more competitive and properly run club can be made. Instead the league, yet again and since the early 90s, demonstrates itself to be the absolute bitch of any tv company with money.

 

nah not buying that like, the test itself specifically has provision for piracy issues and one of their own commercial partners had a claim against SA for pirating their own fucking product man

 

it's the letters from MP's, khashoggis mrs etc. that extend beyond their remit that's been troubling to me, the piracy thing is 100% legit and they shouldn't give up from their pov imo

 

But the issue of piracy has to equate to a criminal offence by the prospective director under the Digital Economy Act to influence the test. If the PL were to decide that such an offence has been committed the director simply fails the test, any requirement of a settlement to resolve that would be straying into very dodgy territory for the PL with the level of scrutiny there could be of this.

 

IMO there seems to be more of a basis for the test to be failed in relation to Khashoggi (the CIA reportedly concluded that MbS was directly responsible for ordering the murder) or for the hacking of Jeff Bezos' phone via a message from MbS himself, both of which would be criminal offences in this country with sentences of over 12 months. A government failing to crack down of piracy doesn't seem likely to constitute a criminal offence.

 

where have you got this from?  the test rules clearly state that the PL can bin off an application if they believe someone is guilty of an offence, not even convicted in another country or whatever, just in their own judgement

 

it's been the reason for a lot of pessimism in this thread tbh

 

Their reasonable opinion still has to be a legally sound one, and it actually has to be an act equivalent to an offence in this country.

 

Sorry, it's not actually offences under the Digital Economy Act, the specific offence referenced in the PL handbook is 'Dishonestly receiving a programme broadcast from within the UK with intent to avoid payment' contrary to s.297 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

[Wolfcastle]

BZG never got the official "waste of time" ending that Staveley and co #1 got. Or the "taking the club off the market" routine. It just faded into nothing, the media are that tired/pathetic to follow up and after a few weeks only about 5% of us believed it so saying anything was just calling attention to it.

This limbo suits the club and the PL. No backlash, no assessement and the tried and tested no investment routine we've had for most of the last 13years. Perhaps as the season has been dragged out so to has this 'takeover' disproportionatley and without justification to excuse it.

Feels like that where we are to me. Was never optimistic after the first week or two but am almost certain now it wont happen and its business/death of the club as usual.

[SUPERTOON]

I honestly think they will drag it on for as long as possible in the hope they walk away.

[Rafalove]

Like I said.

 

Newcastle fans need constant positive reinforcement

 

 

I think we have been incredibly patient, can you see the Man U or Liverpool fans being as patient as us?

 

Would be interesting to see what sort of support either of them would get if they went 50 years without a trophy.

 

Liverpools crowds dropped to mid 30,000s under Roy Hodgson when they were mid table and mid 20s under Souness for certain games. Can't believe some of the s**** I've been reading about them lately. 30 years of hurt apparently? In that time they've probably scooped around 15 trophies.

 

 

Weren’t those attendances under Hodgson organised boycotts though?

[Guest neesy111]

Like I said.

 

Newcastle fans need constant positive reinforcement

 

 

I think we have been incredibly patient, can you see the Man U or Liverpool fans being as patient as us?

 

Would be interesting to see what sort of support either of them would get if they went 50 years without a trophy.

 

Liverpools crowds dropped to mid 30,000s under Roy Hodgson when they were mid table and mid 20s under Souness for certain games. Can't believe some of the s**** I've been reading about them lately. 30 years of hurt apparently? In that time they've probably scooped around 15 trophies.

 

 

Weren’t those attendances under Hodgson organised boycotts though?

 

Yes and under Souness they had the Kop closed while it was made to conform to safety requirements for being an all-seater.

[Guest godzilla]

I honestly think they will drag it on for as long as possible in the hope they walk away.

 

They're not going to walk away this theory that the Premier League are dragging it for this purpose is mental

[ExiledGeordie]

Given the scenes in Liverpool the other night I’d imagine if this does go through the timing of the announcement will be factored in.

[Tiresias]

Football administration not being totally transparent and above board?

 

 

Seriously though, yes it is all a bit dubious, but it's not like Saudi Arabia have their hands clean either. I am surprised it wasn't waved through due to how much money on offer tbh.

 

I just think everyone acting like Bein sports thing being an issue is a) surprising, and b) completely unreasonable. Sorry any major broadcasting partner is always going to have a lot of sway, officially or unofficially and the premier league is not going to totally ignore Saudi Arabia's fairly brazen piracy for years. And to repeat. I hope it'll pass, I think it's just stupid power games between Qatar and Saudi Arabia and it's silly it's bleeding into football and all and no I'm not taking sides, I just don't accept Saudi Arabia as innocent victims (not are Qatar innocent victims) of a much more savvy Qatar campaign. Yes they are lobbying against us, yes they maybe are wielding an outsize influence (though again they ARE a major broadcasting partner) and they are doing what Saudi Arabia should have been well prepared for them to do. They have to have known that Bein would object, they could have prepared for this all by tidying up the piracy in well in advance considering how long this takeover has been in preparation.