Graeme Jones

[Joey Linton]

Remember when he was first coming in and Bruce stood there on Sky (I think) after the Arsenal game (again i think) and distanced himself from it and refused to talk about it, but then when the results picked up him and Edwards started saying he was actually his choice to come in all along?

[Tsunami]

Ritchie and Murphy have cost us 4 goals so far this season by being caught out of position; we’ve also conceded a penalty game. The middle 3 at the back aren’t collectively good enough to make up for the defensive frailties of Murphy and Ritchie. 
 

I don’t blame either Murphy or Ritchie but they’re being increasingly targeted by the opposition and we’ll continue to concede soft goals if it’s allowed to continue.

 

There’s no way he can play those 2 in this system at OT, it could be double figures.

[Fantail Breeze]

Jones is probably a great coach, but he’s also probably not a great manager.

 

He’s certainly not a PL manager. Who would’ve thought bringing in someone of that quality to prop up Bruce was never going to work?

 

Wouldn’t have much issue with Jones staying on under a new manager, but if we made him the manager we’d end up in trouble. Especially as Bruce is only likely to leave when we’re firmly in the shit.

[Raconteur]

11 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Murphy has to be one of the least defensively capable players in that position. I feel bad for him, his pace bails him out sometimes but he simply can’t play that role. 

What makes it works is that he’s got a natural, PL standard right wingback in Manquillo, but persists with Murphy because he can sometimes whip in a good cross and occasionally strike a decent dead ball.

 

Has Manquillo seen any action at all this season? Burnley, maybe?

 

EDIT: noticed Manquillo played in the cup and we didn’t concede any shit goals down the right…

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Raconteur

[Tsunami]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Jones is advocating Murphy and Ritchie over Lewis and Manquillo for the offensive options they provide. No matter, it has to change for the next match where we’ll go to a back 10.

[Happinesstan]

1 minute ago, Tsunami said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Jones is advocating Murphy and Ritchie over Lewis and Manquillo for the offensive options they provide. No matter, it has to change for the next match where we’ll go to a back 10.

Was thinking about this yesterday. Jones trains the attack with Murphy and Ritchie in mind, but Bruce trains the defence into defending the 18 yd line.

[TRon]

Would Graham Jones be considered for a manager role at any other major PL club? His only credentials so far are as being a good assistant for Martinez and Southgate. Not really any sort of track record to judge him on really. When we signed Rafa (by default) we knew what we were getting and still found him wanting. What does it say about our ambition that our alternative to Steve fucking Bruce is Graham Jones?

 

 

[Mattoon]

22 minutes ago, TRon said:

Would Graham Jones be considered for a manager role at any other major PL club? His only credentials so far are as being a good assistant for Martinez and Southgate. Not really any sort of track record to judge him on really. When we signed Rafa (by default) we knew what we were getting and still found him wanting. What does it say about our ambition that our alternative to Steve fucking Bruce is Graham Jones?

 

 

 

The one big thing he has going for him is he's not Bruce. If it's a binary choice I'd roll the dice.

[TRon]

12 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

 

The one big thing he has going for him is he's not Bruce. If it's a binary choice I'd roll the dice.

 

Yeah , that's one hell of a qualification tbf. He's better than the shite manager that none of us wanted in the first place. 

[nbthree3]

His system is the 442 diamond, played that consistently with Luton. It worked well in League 1 for Nathan Jones and he kept that on. However his Luton conceded the most goals in the division with 71 by the time he left which was in the middle of the pandemic before Restart. 43 goals scored was the 4th lowest and the xG tables from what I've seen had them rooted at the bottom so for whatever reason it wasn't successful. More suited to a coaching role definitely than management. In his own words "he tried attacking everybody" and it left them exposed like proven

 

Since Brighton we've exclusively played 3-5-2 which Bruce tailored this summer's incomings - only Willock but remember he kept "bashing away" apparently - on. Always risky if it didn't work out.

 

Few lines when he was appointed https://www.nufc.co.uk/nufc-tv/latest-videos/graeme-jones-speaks-after-joining-steve-bruces-coaching-staff/

 

"I'm here to offer a neutral opinion... I've seen lots of different styles and approaches... the big thing for me has always to try control games with the ball, you can control games without the ball and there needs to be that balance."

 

"If you haven't got the best players in the league you need to be a little pragmatic... to get a style of play that benefits Newcastle United that gets the best players out on the pitch." 

 

"I'm coming in here to help, to offer a different opinion... the longer I stay neutral, the better... the more supportive I can be in that role" 

 

"It's up to Steve whether he uses that opinion and that advice, or little bits to help us go forward." 

[Kanji]

We absolutely need to go back to the 4-4-2 diamond with Wilson or Joelinton (the backup) playing one striker position. Maxi or Fraser the other (Fraser the backup) and Almiron as the 10. Willock and Longstaff as the other. Hayden or another DCM as the holding player. Manquillo and Lewis as the fullbacks and Fede/Lascelles and Schar as the CB. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Kanji

[AyeDubbleYoo]

We’re making so many mental selections and substitutions. It’s an assumption,  but some of them have the feel of Jones about them for me. 
 

Following on from the split strikers, we’ve got wingers playing fullback and attackers playing CM. We’re bringing on Joelinton and not going anywhere near Gayle. It’s all a bit too clever for its own good, and feels a bit like the stuff that was mentioned when he was appointed. 
 

Of course Bruce is ultimately responsible but we don’t have any evidence that Jones isn’t also very dodgy. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Guest HTT II]

Jones, forget about his stint with England, is an ordinary coach and would be a disaster as anything other than a coach. What he brings to the table is a plan of sorts which for us under Bruce, is like inventing the wheel…

[Guest HTT II]

Still absolutely not good enough at this level in what we do, how we play, how we approach games and the opposition. 

[TRon]

2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

We’re making so many mental selections and substitutions. It’s an assumption,  but some of them have the feel of Jones about them for me. 
 

Following on from the split strikers, we’ve got wingers playing fullback and attackers playing CM. We’re bringing on Joelinton and not going anywhere near Gayle. It’s all a bit too clever for its own good, and feels a bit like the stuff that was mentioned when he was appointed. 
 

Of course Bruce is ultimately responsible but we don’t have any evidence that Jones isn’t also very dodgy. 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to knock the guy, I admire anyone who has some conviction in their methods, and from what we've seen, his ideas do produce attractive football if given the chance. 

 

I just don't see how he has the sort of CV which qualifies him for a job managing one of the biggest clubs in England. Honestly he would be a more logical fit for Sunderland. But then so would Bruce. 

[St. Maximin]

4 hours ago, Kanji said:

We absolutely need to go back to the 4-4-2 diamond with Wilson or Joelinton (the backup) playing one striker position. Maxi or Fraser the other (Fraser the backup) and Almiron as the 10. Willock and Longstaff as the other. Hayden or another DCM as the holding player. Manquillo and Lewis as the fullbacks and Fede/Lascelles and Schar as the CB. 

 

 

 

We do? It stopped working quickly. No real strikers and no real wingers. If we had Pep Guardiola and his Barca attackers then fair enough, but not with ours sadly. Even if it means not playing Miggy as 10, I think we’d have to resort to a more simple 4-3-3 or like what Rafa had when we signed Miggy. He wasn’t a number 10 exactly for him either I thought. 
 

Bruce (and maybe Jones too) has tried a range of formations that showed some initial success before becoming confusing and ineffective. At times the ‘Rafa tactics’ worked well. He tried a back four and we thumped Bournemouth. He played the split-strikers role and we blew Everton away. He played the current formation at the end of last season and we had some great results. Eventually they all stopped working, with the lack of organisation and plan becoming evident as well as the players’ limitations being exposed. Sure we will try something else soon and expect a similar trend 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by St. Maximin

[Happinesstan]

Problem is the lack of a LB [what a surprise]

We should be buzzing with Wilson up top, ASM taking up wide positions in the attacking third with added support from the FB on the other side, Almiron and Willock. We could get away with Manquillo, but there is nobody on the left to do that job.

I think I'd go with giving Lewis the experience but with the instruction to protect him more.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Happinesstan

[Sima]

21 hours ago, ManDoon said:

Man I literally forgot about Manquillo. He’s actually become a good player here, and has all the attributes to play that role. Idiotic he’s not playing 

 

Manquillo is shite tbf, he's just less shite that what we currently have at full back.

[Gavin400]

31 minutes ago, Sima said:

 

Manquillo is shite tbf, he's just less shite that what we currently have at full back.

Agreed. Manquillo is our best defensive right full back.

[Guest]

He’s not shit on the ball either. Not exactly TAA but he can at least pass and cross the ball as well.

[Consortium of one]

It's an awful squad.  It's hard to single out individual players for shiteness.

 

It's an awful coaching staff.  It's led by a fat pantywaste and is doomed for failure.

 

It's an awful backroom staff.  Are they even all back from furlough?

 

It's an awful Board.  It's only occupant is a glorified purchasing agent.

 

It's an awful owner.  Even when he gave 1/2 a shite he made awful decisions.

 

 

 

 

[loki679]

6 minutes ago, Consortium of one said:

It's an awful squad.  It's hard to single out individual players for shiteness.

 

It's an awful coaching staff.  It's led by a fat pantywaste and is doomed for failure.

 

It's an awful backroom staff.  Are they even all back from furlough?

 

It's an awful Board.  It's only occupant is a glorified purchasing agent.

 

It's an awful owner.  Even when he gave 1/2 a shite he made awful decisions.

 

 

 

 

 

Harsh on Steve although you're right about Steve.  Jury is still out on Steve.

[HaydnNUFC]

Don't agree that it's an awful squad. There's a nucleus of a decent side in there, they're just being used utterly terribly, in the wrong positions and with tactics and a formation which is pure self harm. IMO its our best squad since 2013-14 and it should be in midtable with no worries of a relegation battle. 

 

It just underlines how shit Bruce is and how much of a cunt Ashley is. With a decent couple of additions under a decent manager who knows what he's doing, we're well clear of any flirtation with relegation. Bruce would probably have Leicester, Villa and West Ham's current squads struggling and fighting with relegation. It's just how utterly shit the bloke is.

[Yorkie]

I think 18/19 was easily a better first team and squad tbh. The only player from today who's more talented than anyone from then is ASM. There's an argument for Wilson of course but his and Rondon's contributions are pretty evenly matched. 

 

It was still mid-tableish but there was actually some competent depth in basically all positions, plenty of balance, Shlongstaff wasn't total bobbins, Dubravka not constantly injured, Ritchie at LWB wasn't the failure it is now, Almiron (/the attack) all worked in tandem, and the three centre-backs complemented each other incredibly well too. 

 

Build on that with a couple of key additions and we were rocking and rolling. So close. 

[Consortium of one]

Wilson, ASM, Miggy and?

 

When you have a free like Hendricks taking away a place for a better player you have an awful squad.

 

How many players have been with us 5 seasons or more who can no longer distinguish themselves?

 

Yes, there is talent, but how many of these players would be gone with a more progressive ownership?