Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[gdm]

So much shite written in here

[Raconteur]

 

A journalist is guessing that Ashley might have a restraint of trade case. I’d really like to hear how they argue that.

 

Mind, same journalist in the same article says the PL have to say something other than generic, meaningless bullshit. Sure thing, from your lips to God’s ears, you blessedly ignorant fool

 

Are you a lawyer?

 

I am not a lawyer. I have worked as a junior in a law firm - which is nothing close to an expert. But I have some training and experience. Enough to know there’s a lot of wheat, a lot of chaff and not a lot of it is obvious.

 

It’s why I get mad when obviously spurious bullshit is spouted, and why I take most everything else I read with a grain of salt.

 

You worked as a junior, so you don’t have the training or knowledge. You’re legal opinion has as much veracity as everybody else’s. let them have their opinion

 

My legal opinion has very little veracity, you’re right. It’s even worse than you think - because my experience is in Australia. But some people have zero.

 

My response was as much to the blasé offering from that story - maybe restraint of trade, perhaps. Again, I have nothing approaching the legal knowledge to say “There is no case”. I know enough that if someone says “There is a case”, then I can respond with “And how do you support that?”

 

I would love opinions - if they have merit. Truth is, I’m fucking devastated by the collapse of the deal. I see people with hope - but it seems every scrap of hope I see people cling to seems, well, hopeless. If anyone has genuine hope that PIF will own NUFC, then I want to be convinced by them.

[Wandy]

Thank you for your response.

 

 

In that tripe above you unwittingly just confirmed that your little theory about how the PL and buyers have conducted themselves in the last four months cannot be included in any list of facts. Could you please rephrase this for clarity?

 

You stated it yourself. Known facts : They have not made a decision yet. Nobody knows why. No legal proceedings have taken place yet. Nobody knows why. The PIF issued a statement saying they intended to walk away but in actual fact have not yet done so officially. Nobody knows why. l’m with you here, except for the part I have underlined.

 

I responded to your argument by stating that you are merely guessing about the details in which the O&D test have been adhered to. Er, what?

 

Nobody knows how this has played out but many people have suggested that the PL have abused the rules of the test to get where we are. Pretty sure I agreed that the PL broke it’s own rules Everything, and I mean everything, is guesswork at the moment when it goes to working out how the negotiations have played out.

 

Nobody has offered a legal argument to suggest that proceedings can be made against the PL in the same way that nobody has offered one to suggest that they cant. A specious argument. I’m saying I don’t think there is a case, prove me wrong

 

That's because, once again, nobody knows either way. People have relied on their information for this entire farce through journalists who claimed to have sources ITK. Well it's worth pointing out that some of those same journalists are now saying that the buyers believe they will have legal grounds to pursue this. Yes, there’s an article from the South Shields Gazette above. A lot of words that says nothing

 

It's entirely reasonable to think that this has not gone legal yet because the buyers would prefer to get this done through reasonably amicable negotiation. Reasonable is a stretch, but it seems to be their current strategy, yes

 

It's also possible that the buyers became aware at an early stage that the PL were not adhering to the rules and guidance of their own test but said nothing and played along in the hope that the outcome would be positive. A reasonable theory, I’d be curious to hear it developed

 

Maybe, just maybe, they have been keeping a tally of all the rule bending in readiness for the legal route. That is not fantasy, it's just taking a different stance on what might have transpired and how things will now play out.Speak to me of this legal route

 

I don’t even know what you’re arguing anymore. The PL is corrupt and actively stymied a bid by PIF as a favour to BeIn - that’s my opinion. It’s also my opinion that absolutely nothing anyone can and will change enough to enable PIF to take part in a consortium to buy NUFC. I’d love to be presented with strong arguments to change than opinion. Do you have them?

 

And yeah, if you think that somehow Boris and Chi and Amanda and James and the Trust can make Richard Masters rubber stamp a PIF deal, then I comfortable with using the term fantasist.

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process.

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away.

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you.

 

 

[Shearergol]

Thought Staveley stated that she wouldn’t give up, without a mention of PIF?

[Judge Holden]

Thank you for your response.

 

 

In that tripe above you unwittingly just confirmed that your little theory about how the PL and buyers have conducted themselves in the last four months cannot be included in any list of facts. Could you please rephrase this for clarity?

 

You stated it yourself. Known facts : They have not made a decision yet. Nobody knows why. No legal proceedings have taken place yet. Nobody knows why. The PIF issued a statement saying they intended to walk away but in actual fact have not yet done so officially. Nobody knows why. l’m with you here, except for the part I have underlined.

 

I responded to your argument by stating that you are merely guessing about the details in which the O&D test have been adhered to. Er, what?

 

Nobody knows how this has played out but many people have suggested that the PL have abused the rules of the test to get where we are. Pretty sure I agreed that the PL broke it’s own rules Everything, and I mean everything, is guesswork at the moment when it goes to working out how the negotiations have played out.

 

Nobody has offered a legal argument to suggest that proceedings can be made against the PL in the same way that nobody has offered one to suggest that they cant. A specious argument. I’m saying I don’t think there is a case, prove me wrong

 

That's because, once again, nobody knows either way. People have relied on their information for this entire farce through journalists who claimed to have sources ITK. Well it's worth pointing out that some of those same journalists are now saying that the buyers believe they will have legal grounds to pursue this. Yes, there’s an article from the South Shields Gazette above. A lot of words that says nothing

 

It's entirely reasonable to think that this has not gone legal yet because the buyers would prefer to get this done through reasonably amicable negotiation. Reasonable is a stretch, but it seems to be their current strategy, yes

 

It's also possible that the buyers became aware at an early stage that the PL were not adhering to the rules and guidance of their own test but said nothing and played along in the hope that the outcome would be positive. A reasonable theory, I’d be curious to hear it developed

 

Maybe, just maybe, they have been keeping a tally of all the rule bending in readiness for the legal route. That is not fantasy, it's just taking a different stance on what might have transpired and how things will now play out.Speak to me of this legal route

 

I don’t even know what you’re arguing anymore. The PL is corrupt and actively stymied a bid by PIF as a favour to BeIn - that’s my opinion. It’s also my opinion that absolutely nothing anyone can and will change enough to enable PIF to take part in a consortium to buy NUFC. I’d love to be presented with strong arguments to change than opinion. Do you have them?

 

And yeah, if you think that somehow Boris and Chi and Amanda and James and the Trust can make Richard Masters rubber stamp a PIF deal, then I comfortable with using the term fantasist.

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process.

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away.

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you.

 

 

 

I ate a big red candle.

[Raconteur]

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process. truth be told, it was when I first identified your particular voice. And since I reject the possibility of the latter happening, the former is irrelevant

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away. I think we might be getting somewhere. No “timescale” is mealy-mouthed bullshit, when they have a proscribed timescale in their own rules. Now, process, resolution - that might have no timescale. But each step does. And so, as I asked before, how did they stick to their rules and yet not make a decision?

 

 

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.  That’s the claim, not the confirmation. Confirmation is when multiple people say it, preferably people not in the consortium

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you. Precisely. People keep saying “legal options”, without ever saying what those options are. I am dubious that solid grounds exist. I hope to be convinced otherwise

 

 

 

Sorry to bore you all - I’m bored.

[Guest]

 

https://twitter.com/agbnufc/status/1292453106010251264?s=21

[Ketsbaia]

It does feel incredibly odd being on the same side as Ashley. Sticking with the wrestling theme, it's like those awkward tag teams who don't get along but somehow still have the belts.

 

Is the world ready for such mega powers teaming up?

[Happinesstan]

It does feel incredibly odd being on the same side as Ashley. Sticking with the wrestling theme, it's like those awkward tag teams who don't get along but somehow still have the belts.

 

Is the world ready for such mega powers teaming up?

 

Ashley, the Saudis, Boris, some bloke without a mask.

 

We've found some odd bedfellows through all of this.

 

All for our fair share of the corruption.

[Wandy]

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process. truth be told, it was when I first identified your particular voice. And since I reject the possibility of the latter happening, the former is irrelevant

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away. I think we might be getting somewhere. No “timescale” is mealy-mouthed bullshit, when they have a proscribed timescale in their own rules. Now, process, resolution - that might have no timescale. But each step does. And so, as I asked before, how did they stick to their rules and yet not make a decision?

 

 

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.  That’s the claim, not the confirmation. Confirmation is when multiple people say it, preferably people not in the consortium

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you. Precisely. People keep saying “legal options”, without ever saying what those options are. I am dubious that solid grounds exist. I hope to be convinced otherwise

 

 

 

Sorry to bore you all - I’m bored.

 

Take away your sarcasm and we are actually more on the same page than you make out. I myself am far from convinced that this will be resolved in a positive way for us but I am taking the silence as a positive and you appear to be taking the opposite view. Your unconvinced about the legal grounds - fair enough. But that doesnt mean that they aren't out there. One way or another, we will find out soon enough though.

[TRon]

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process. truth be told, it was when I first identified your particular voice. And since I reject the possibility of the latter happening, the former is irrelevant

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away. I think we might be getting somewhere. No “timescale” is mealy-mouthed bullshit, when they have a proscribed timescale in their own rules. Now, process, resolution - that might have no timescale. But each step does. And so, as I asked before, how did they stick to their rules and yet not make a decision?

 

 

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.  That’s the claim, not the confirmation. Confirmation is when multiple people say it, preferably people not in the consortium

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you. Precisely. People keep saying “legal options”, without ever saying what those options are. I am dubious that solid grounds exist. I hope to be convinced otherwise

 

 

 

Sorry to bore you all - I’m bored.

 

Take away your sarcasm and we are actually more on the same page than you make out. I myself am far from convinced that this will be resolved in a positive way for us but I am taking the silence as a positive and you appear to be taking the opposite view. Your unconvinced about the legal grounds - fair enough. But that doesnt mean that they aren't out there. One way or another, we will find out soon enough though.

 

I am also in agreement with Racontuer even though I find his posts really rub me up the wrong way. But essentially I agree with him that it's difficult to see the PL bowing to the pressure. I just think there's too many parties stacked against us. Not just BeIN, but also the other PL clubs. Very difficult for the PL to be neutral in this when they have a vested interest through those links regardless of the merits of the bid from an NUFC view.

[bealios]

Although I wouldn’t pretend this is my area, there are plenty of legal avenues where one could try and base a claim. I’m not sure restraint of trade would be the right one tbh, but if you can get yourself to the position that the PL owe NUFC a duty of care, and they have breached that duty with how they have conducted the process, causing a loss, then that is one angle. Not saying it would succeed, but sometimes that isn’t the point. Just the threat of a £100m + claim might be enough to “settle”.

 

You’ve also got the more obvious claims if you can show that the premier league is carrying out a public function - which can in certain circumstances apply to private bodies.

 

 

 

[Smal]

It does feel incredibly odd being on the same side as Ashley. Sticking with the wrestling theme, it's like those awkward tag teams who don't get along but somehow still have the belts.

 

Is the world ready for such mega powers teaming up?

 

See, I can’t really understand why more people aren’t angry at Ashley. He’s finally decided to accept a bid, and the bid is from a state who, let’s face it, should never be allowed to own a football club.

 

I expect this to go down like a lead balloon, but whether you think the PL are corrupt or not, it’s hardly a surprise that a bid from the chief rival of one of the PL’s biggest commercial partners had gone bad.

 

I do think the PL should give fans answers, but I also think they’ve been put in a pretty difficult position. They’re stuck in the middle of a geopolitical war that potentially has pretty serious ramifications that, unfortunately for us, are bigger than nufc.

 

Edit: I’ll add - I do think the PL have to take some blame for the position they’re in because their ownership test is clearly insufficient. It shouldn’t be difficult for them to add something saying states/heads of state cannot own clubs.

 

 

[Whitley mag]

I’m certainly no legal expert but surely the bottom line must be, a governing body in the U.K. has basically refused to give a decision, basically saying we’ll just sit here month after month and neither accept or reject the bid.

 

As someone selling a business surely you must have some sort of case, maybe that’s way to simplistic but I just can’t get my head around how they get away with that.

 

A consortium has invested at least 17 million and god knows how much in legal fees, they also claim it was indicated that there would be no problems.

 

At the very least surely the PL have to make a decision and reject it, I just don’t see how they can retain any sort of credibility otherwise. Also I don’t see how silence is an option now, Masters will have to reply to the ombudsman, MP’s and PM, i think the level of detail in the reply will give us a big clue where we’re at.

[Wandy]

Anyway, what happened to those two young lawyers that were always piping up with positive noises back in the good old days of April & May?  I need some straw clutching from someone in the legal field once again.

[Miggys First Goal]

Only in 2020 would Ashley and Newcastle fans unite for a common goal. Crazy times.

[Wandy]

I just remembered that I actually have an old school friend who is a commercial lawyer.  I messaged him and asked him if he thought there was a legal case that could be pursued. His response was that it was unlikely that the buyers could do anything but Ashley possibly could if 1) The PL in some way breached the rules of their test and 2) that the breach caused the seller to "suffer a detrement" because of the breach.

[Miggys First Goal]

Gan on, Mike! Bankrupt them.

[Wandy]

I mean, if its true that Ashley has legitimate grounds for recourse, then it kind of makes sense why the buyers pulled out as there is no legal avenue that they can go down themselves so they were at a dead end. Also makes sense why Staveley has been cooing over Ashley despite him being a dick and altering the price. They now rely on him getting it through so they stepped aside to let him get on with it.

[Si]

Gan on, Mike! Bankrupt them.

We've stayed so far from the light.

[Mattoon]

Imagine if Ashley actually forced the PL hand and it was because of him and only him that we were actually sold to PIF. The cognitive dissonance would be on an astronomical scale ?

[Wandy]

 

https://twitter.com/MoneyMikeAshley/status/1292407881090969606?s=20

[Bimpy474]

Quite a lot of guess work going on in here 

[Rafalove]

One of the all time great twitter accounts.

[cosmic]

If Gordon B Stein actually exists and has owned companies quoted on the SE surely a quick google would verify his existence ? Can't find anything

 

https://columbus-erp.com/about-us/the-board/

 

Gordon B. Stein is real and is CFO of Columbus Energy Resources PLC. His profile on website matches that described in his letter. Anyone familiar with this company?