PIF and RB Sports & Media

[Guest]

Does this continue today or is that it until we hear the outcome?

[Decky]

It still fucking infuriates me that Spurs are one of the 'big 6' too. Fucking why? What have they done to earn that? Built a nice stadium and qualified for the CL a few times? Big deal, we did the same 20 years ago and it got us fuck all in return all these years later. Even Arsenal now, yes they're obviously historically a big player but clubs like Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa have fantastic history as well and reached a level Arsenal have never got to with European glory so is it a big 7 now Villa are back in the league? Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool are absolutely miles ahead of both.

 

Long story short its money that is driving this, if we got bought over you'll hear 'big 7' being fired about within months of the deal being done and we'll have done nothing to earn it apart from get rich. I wonder if some day we'll get a proper investigation into this racket and find out brown envelopes have been getting passed about PL HQ for years?

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Decky

[r0cafella]

15 minutes ago, Decky said:

 

The joke of it is Arsenal have completely fallen away and Spurs are heading down the same road. Back to a top 4. You have the likes of Leicester and West Ham floating about but ultimately its the same cunts getting those spots, same old boring shite. Why not encourage more competition if it improves the brand? Because the PL have absolutely no balls and are deep into the pocket of six clubs that threatened to destroy their brand literally just last year, working on it in private while they appealed for our takeover to be blocked too. Complete scum clubs throwing threats out to the league who then throw their own threats out to us. The biggest punishment/act of revenge the PL could do for the top 6 is approve our takeover but its completely obvious that even after the stab in the back the PL are still the bitch of those six clubs. 

Decky my friend, please don’t be confused the top 6 has nothing to do with sporting integrity it’s a pure business play. 
 

football as a sport has been finished for a long time now, it’s just another business to further enrich the wealthy. 

[Ben]

But but ......I thought each club had a 5% equal share of the EPL.

[mrmojorisin75]

14 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Still seems absolutely shite that the PL seem to be doing everything to stop this rather than saying what needs to be done or how they can help make the takeover run through smoothly.

 

I think this is an interesting point but ultimately the only alternative to the current setup is to not have PIF as an owner/director isn't it?  Given the stance the PL have taken.  You would imagine the consortium's lawyers will know this and the sticking point is that PIF will want to own the club instead of creating fake layers of separation to satisfy the fucking premier league.

[Guest]

They’d have just have rejected the bid outright if that was the case surely?

[r0cafella]

14 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

They’d have just have rejected the bid outright if that was the case surely?

No, they don’t want to reject anything. They want the PIF to withdraw so it all goes away. 
 

Failing the PIF will just create additional scrutiny which they don’t want. Unfortunately for them I don’t think they expected Ashley to take them to court. 

[Hhtoon]

17 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

They’d have just have rejected the bid outright if that was the case surely?

 

Offered arbitration didn't they? And then PIF officially "pulled out".

[mrmojorisin75]

21 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

They’d have just have rejected the bid outright if that was the case surely?

 

The point is that once barriers started being thrown up I'm sure PIF/consortium could have took it upon themselves to create a structure that would avoid all this but they haven't done that, which suggests to me they simply don't want to.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

I do have to wonder if (big if) we were a "big 6 club" ourselves how FCB would try & influence the outcome of a Saudi backed consortium taking over Norwich for instance ? 

Clearly I don't condone anything anything the PL have done but Im fairly convinced the fat fucker would be all over the PL trying to block the exact same as he's trying to push through



 

[Thumbheed]

Did anyone else think that the argument of seperation for SJHL and the club to be quite flimsy? 

 

Seems to me to be the key point to the hearing.

[RS]

7 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Did anyone else think that the argument of seperation for SJHL and the club to be quite flimsy? 

 

Seems to me to be the key point to the hearing.

No flimsier than Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyanwa and the City Group?

[54]

5 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

I do have to wonder if (big if) we were a "big 6 club" ourselves how FCB would try & influence the outcome of a Saudi backed consortium taking over Norwich for instance ? 

Clearly I don't condone anything anything the PL have done but Im fairly convinced the fat fucker would be all over the PL trying to block the exact same as he's trying to push through



 

Lets not be mistaken, there are no good guys in this situation. There are bad guys and bad guys. Just a bunch of rich people that are throwing a public tantrum at each other, that have no idea how to even relate to the fans that each of them claim to have the best interests of.

 

Mike Ashley is an utter tosser that has somehow over the last 18 months put himself in a position where, in the press and in the eyes of some fans he is the good guy. He has treated the entirety of this club with utter distain for 13 years, done the exact opposite of what was right for the club at every turn, and antagonised us fans at every corner. He's an asshole and should have no support with anyone associated with the club, now or in the future when we're finally rid of him.

 

While I obviously want this takeover to go through, I do have serious misgivings about the Saudis owning the club, there human rights record is abhorrent, they're corrupt and just "get rid" of people that have a different opinion to the state. We'd be used as a vessel to improve their image Worldwide to billions of people, and that doesn't sit right in the stomach.

 

If at the very beginning of this whole situation that was the reason the Premier League rejected it, i'd actually be in support of it. Money isn't the only thing worth something in this world and If we where just bought by some other random rich guy, that only had the money to get us in that 10th to 7th region, but we'd actually try and do things the right way, I'd probably prefer that then the Saudi state owning us.

 

It actually makes me a bit of a hypocrite as I know full well, I'll be cheering every goal that goes in should the takeover go through, and probably not even give an iota of care if we ever won anything.

 

The human rights record wasn't the reason though, and in a world where it's very clear the Premier League have been corrupt at every turn, have treated the club and fans with utter contempt, and are clearly influenced by an elite minority. This whole process has shown how fit for purpose they are, that being not at all, so it's going to a sweet day when/ if the takeover goes though, and they can quite frankly get fucked.

[Thumbheed]

4 minutes ago, RS said:

No flimsier than Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyanwa and the City Group?

Agreed, but unless I missed it, I didnt hear that type of argument from the QC, just seemed to be centred around under what capacity Ashley signed forms. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Thumbheed

[Thumbheed]

2 minutes ago, 54 said:

Lets not be mistaken, there are no good guys in this situation. There are bad guys and bad guys. Just a bunch of rich people that are throwing a public tantrum at each other, that have no idea how to even relate to the fans that each of them claim to have the best interests of.

 

Mike Ashley is an utter tosser that has somehow over the last 18 months put himself in a position where, in the press and in the eyes of some fans he is the good guy. He has treated the entirety of this club with utter distain for 13 years, done the exact opposite of what was right for the club at every turn, and antagonised us fans at every corner. He's an asshole and should have no support with anyone associated with the club, now or in the future when we're finally rid of him.

 

While I obviously want this takeover to go through, I do have serious misgivings about the Saudis owning the club, there human rights record is abhorrent, they're corrupt and just "get rid" of people that have a different opinion to the state. We'd be used as a vessel to improve their image Worldwide to billions of people, and that doesn't sit right in the stomach.

 

If at the very beginning of this whole situation that was the reason the Premier League rejected it, i'd actually be in support of it. Money isn't the only thing worth something in this world and If we where just bought by some other random rich guy, that only had the money to get us in that 10th to 7th region, but we'd actually try and do things the right way, I'd probably prefer that then the Saudi state owning us.

 

It actually makes me a bit of a hypocrite as I know full well, I'll be cheering every goal that goes in should the takeover go through, and probably not even give an iota of care if we ever won anything.

 

The human rights record wasn't the reason though, and in a world where it's very clear the Premier League have been corrupt at every turn, have treated the club and fans with utter contempt, and are clearly influenced by an elite minority. This whole process has shown how fit for purpose they are, that being not at all, so it's going to a sweet day when/ if the takeover goes though, and they can quite frankly get fucked.

Great post. 

 

 

[HawK]

It's like picking between Scrooge and Xerxes

[ScottishMagpie]

Fecking brilliant post 54!!

[frankpingel]

54, brilliant summary of how I and probably most feel overall about the situation.

[Guest reefatoon]

Was interested in Lewis saying they were "fighting arbitration". found that quite a strange word to use. They offered us arbitration as they couldn't come to an agreement, so why would he use the word "fight" if they weren't trying their hardest for this not to happen. Felt the word fight was a bit of a slip, but is how they really feel about the takeover. They have their heels dug right in now and will fight it all the way. To me they have absolutely no intention of trying to work with all parties to get it resolved.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by reefatoon

[Wandy]

With the arbitration...is it a case of the Saudis having to prove to the tribunal panel that the state is separate to PIF?

 

Or is it a case of the PL having to prove to the panel that the state and PIF are one and the same?

 

In other words, who has the burden of proof?

 

 

[Jackie Broon]

36 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Did anyone else think that the argument of seperation for SJHL and the club to be quite flimsy? 

 

Seems to me to be the key point to the hearing.

 

I thought it was convincing, but they don't need to win that part it's just something that would torpedo the PL's case if they do.

 

The main argument will be that the scope of the arbitration is different to the CAT case and most of that was heard in private.

 

The SJHL stuff just gives us two different routes to defeat the PL's case, the PL have to win both arguments, we only have to win one.

 

Even if the PL do that it looks like at best they will get a stay until after arbitration  they're not getting the case thrown out altogether.

[TK-421]

10 minutes ago, Wandy said:

With the arbitration...is it a case of the Saudis having to prove to the tribunal panel that the state is separate to PIF?

 

Or is it a case of the PL having to prove to the panel that the state and PIF are one and the same?

 

In other words, who has the burden of proof?

 

 

 

I believe its the former, PIF have to prove they are separate from the Saudi State. Its not on the PL to prove the link, They are happy just to sit and keep saying they (PIF) need to prove separation, and the can gets kicked along again.

 

However, had there not been claims over the last year or so that declarations had been hand delivered from the Saudi Royal family, stating as such, which clearly hasn't been enough to satisfy the PL (yet).

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by TK-421

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It might be flimsy in common sense, but it might be quite strong under the letter of company law. Always hard to judge how much normal common sense applies. 

[Thumbheed]

8 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I thought it was convincing, but they don't need to win that part it's just something that would torpedo the PL's case if they do.

 

The main argument will be that the scope of the arbitration is different to the CAT case and most of that was heard in private.

 

The SJHL stuff just gives us two different routes to defeat the PL's case, the PL have to win both arguments, we only have to win one.

 

Even if the PL do that it looks like at best they will get a stay until after arbitration  they're not getting the case thrown out altogether.

Ahhh see, my interpretation was that if SJHL fell within the scope of the PL rules, then that in affect would sink any need for a CAT case as they're bound by the agreement to settle disputes internally, so of that argument is proved to be correct then this would get thrown out. 

[Wandy]

22 minutes ago, TK-421 said:

 

I believe its the former, PIF have to prove they are separate from the Saudi State. Its not on the PL to prove the link, They are happy just to sit and keep saying they (PIF) need to prove separation, and the can gets kicked along again.

 

However, had there not been claims over the last year or so that declarations had been hand delivered from the Saudi Royal family, stating as such, which clearly hasn't been enough to satisfy the PL (yet).

 

 

 

 

Is it not simply the case that the burden of proof was only on the Saudis to get past the ODT? But when in court the burden of proof switches to the PL?

 

With Beloff on that panel I still think the PL will fancy their chances and won't be backing down....unless the burden of proof falls to them.