PIF and RB Sports & Media

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Unbelievable said:

A country's legal system is not a normal thing for a government to concern itself with now..?

That’s not what I’m saying.  What I’m saying is that it is clearly not the act of a normal, functioning state to commit piracy.  
 

KSA doesn’t have Rule of law - so yes, everyone should be concerned about their legal system, just as human beings. 

[Unbelievable]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

That’s not what I’m saying.  What I’m saying is that it is clearly not the act of a normal, functioning state to commit piracy.  
 

KSA doesn’t have Rule of law - so yes, everyone should be concerned about their legal system, just as human beings. 

The state was committing piracy now? This is getting more comical by the minute.

 

 

Edited September 16 by Unbelievable

[TheBrownBottle]

6 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

The state was committing piracy now? This is getting more comical by the minute.

 

 

 

Yep - don’t even see how this is controversial.  The WTO ruled on it - it’s why they paid Qatar a billion quid.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2020/6/16/saudi-state-behind-beoutq-piracy-tv-operation-wto-ruling

[Unbelievable]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep - don’t even see how this is controversial.  The WTO ruled on it - it’s why they paid Qatar a billion quid.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2020/6/16/saudi-state-behind-beoutq-piracy-tv-operation-wto-ruling

I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine the person watching illegal streams is committing the piracy, whereas a person or institute "supporting" it is not? Also to go back to the first point, what constitutes illegal behaviour in a sovereign country is, as far as I am aware, a matter of the government of that country first and foremost.

[TRon]

On 05/09/2024 at 14:01, The College Dropout said:

Well it’s an obvious hack. It’s within the rules. And they haven’t done it.  

 

Just to get back to this - people are wondering why everything seems to have gone quiet on the stadium development/training ground/multi-club models etc - My theory is that PIF won't be that motivated to invest massive amounts in infrastructure if we aren't allowed to do the same with the squad. It's a successful team on the pitch that brings glory at the end of the day, not a nice training ground or state of the art stadium. Maybe they are holding their horses and seeing how long it is likely to be before we can realistically challenge for the title.

[Kaizero]

15 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine the person watching illegal streams is committing the piracy, whereas a person or institute "supporting" it is not? Also to go back to the first point, what constitutes illegal behaviour in a sovereign country is, as far as I am aware, a matter of the government of that country first and foremost.

 

The person providing the opportunity to "pirate" intellectual property is breaking the law in a much more serious manner than the person watching as they are the ones committing the act of piracy. That said, those watching are also breaking the law, just not in as serious a manner as the originator(s). Imagine a pirate ship back in the day, the Captain orders the crew to attack a merchant vessel. The Captain and the active pirates are clearly commiting more serious criminality than a deckhand remaining on the pirate vessel as the piracy happens. However, once the deckhand spends his share of the crew's booty on land, he's guilty as well - even if he didn't board the merchant vessel at all.

 

"International" Copyright Law is enforcable under the 1971 Berne Convention, which Saudi Arabia are a signatory of.

 

 

 

Edited September 16 by Kaizero

[FloydianMag]

31 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

That’s not what I’m saying.  What I’m saying is that it is clearly not the act of a normal, functioning state to commit piracy.  
 

KSA doesn’t have Rule of law - so yes, everyone should be concerned about their legal system, just as human beings. 

Our own history and wealth was built on piracy, slavery etc, history I know but some of it wasn’t in the not too distant past.

[Unbelievable]

9 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

The person providing the opportunity to "pirate" intellectual property is breaking the law in a much more serious manner than the person watching, though they are also breaking the law by doing so.

 

"International" Copyright Law is enforcable under the 1971 Berne Convention, which Saudi Arabia are a signatory of.

 

Define "providing the opportunity" though? The party streaming would I imagine be much more liable to claims of piracy than the energy company providing them electricity or the prosecutor deciding to not trial them.

 

 

Edited September 16 by Unbelievable

[The College Dropout]

32 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Just to get back to this - people are wondering why everything seems to have gone quiet on the stadium development/training ground/multi-club models etc - My theory is that PIF won't be that motivated to invest massive amounts in infrastructure if we aren't allowed to do the same with the squad. It's a successful team on the pitch that brings glory at the end of the day, not a nice training ground or state of the art stadium. Maybe they are holding their horses and seeing how long it is likely to be before we can realistically challenge for the title.

We need the revenues from a bigger stadium with better rates to be continually successful. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, FloydianMag said:

Our own history and wealth was built on piracy, slavery etc, history I know but some of it wasn’t in the not too distant past.

And if it was still occurring I’d happily criticise that the too tbf

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Unbelievable said:

Define "providing the opportunity" though? The party streaming would I imagine be much more liable to claims of piracy than the energy company providing them electricity or the prosecutor deciding to not trial them.

 

 

 

The state and the provider are absolutely linked - it’s Saudi Arabia we’re talking about here.  They were publicly broadcasting BeOutQ’s matches - in the same year that women were finally allowed to go to the cinema.   You don’t get to do much in public without it being state sanctioned.  Oppressive dictatorships are like that. 

[loki679]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

We need the revenues from a bigger stadium with better rates to be continually successful. 

 

Squad investment is being hamstrung by the cartel stitching things up and the stadium was always going to take a while considering the sentiment and geographical requirements but there's very little reason not to have broken ground on a new training complex by now.  One of the biggest property developers in the country is part owner of the club ffs.

[Ben]

4 hours ago, loki679 said:

 

Squad investment is being hamstrung by the cartel stitching things up and the stadium was always going to take a while considering the sentiment and geographical requirements but there's very little reason not to have broken ground on a new training complex by now.  One of the biggest property developers in the country is part owner of the club ffs.

 

I'm banking on them waiting on the results of both Man City's cases before these things get announced. I found this "writing one big cheque" quote interesting.

 

I wonder if a rule change is coming where owners can pump capitol in with one large investment held in a secure account that can only be used to invest in the club.

 

The current situation at Man Utd and the likes of Burnley is much more of a threat to the sustainability of clubs than rich owners playing with their own money.

[Unbelievable]

Pretty sure the "one big cheque" comment was specifically in relation to the stadium extension/move.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ben said:

 

I'm banking on them waiting on the results of both Man City's cases before these things get announced. I found this "writing one big cheque" quote interesting.

This would likely mean next summer then, can’t see it being the case 

[Menace]

Wasn't the whole piracy thing really snidey as well? Replicating BeIn streams and calling them BeoutQ or something.

[TRon]

14 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

We need the revenues from a bigger stadium with better rates to be continually successful. 

 

Even then we won't have the spending power of the cartel clubs with their already built worldwide fanbases. We need to be able to invest our own money.

[Guest]

Seems not ideal for her. Am I right in thinking the club loaned this company money for legal battles?

[Abacus]

She couldn't have stayed on the board for this, you'd have thunk.

[Myleftboot]

Looks like PIF are investing over a billion dollars into PGA Tour Enterprises.

[The College Dropout]

On 17/09/2024 at 11:52, TRon said:

 

Even then we won't have the spending power of the cartel clubs with their already built worldwide fanbases. We need to be able to invest our own money.

Doesn’t change that we need a new stadium to realise our existing potential. 
 

Man U have shared some plans for some regeneration within months. 
 

Where are we with this? The training ground?

 

When Ashley took over we had the second biggest club stadium in the country. We are about to become the 8th. We are being left behind. 

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Doesn’t change that we need a new stadium to realise our existing potential. 
 

Man U have shared some plans for some regeneration within months. 
 

Where are we with this? The training ground?

 

When Ashley took over we had the second biggest club stadium in the country. We are about to become the 8th. We are being left behind. 

 

I think the only way to answer this is if you consider the club an investment or a vanity project for the Saudis. If it's the former, the cost would make it prohibitive. If it's the latter, then the Saudis will want to know they can build a winning side without restrictions.

[Dr Jinx]

I think the elephant in the room which few are talking openly about is that there's every possibility that we're the unwanted child in a broken relationship now. There's PIF and The Reubens.. do they communicate at all? At board level, who's leading this? I think maybe the personalities involved are a little too affable or silver spoon for Yassir's liking.

 

Something feels slightly off, like we're in so much better shape than a few years ago so it's fully acceptable but i do wonder just how serious PIF and by extension Saudi are about positioning us for something a bit more. Everything has stalled and it's allowing doubt to creep in.

 

Also something maybe of battered wife syndrome when it comes to the fanbase after the Mike Ashley years.. we're going to need a bit more regular reassurance than we're currently getting, and a few words probably won't cut the mustard this time. We need to see something real and material.

 

Training Ground.. nothing been said about it. Understandable if not a current priority but at least say it's on the back burner for the moment.

Stadium - all been said in the other thread. It will take time for it to come together but an update (even to say no update) would be good.

Revenue increases - some new significant sponsorship would be great - it's gone a little quiet on the major deals they were talking about.

Clear up the situation with SD and Manager.. is there anything to clear up? If not then just say that.

[The College Dropout]

Agreed my ultimate concern is that PIF are not as invested as they need to be for us to be successful. And I think I already have the answer. 
 

Chelsea was Roman’s football interest. City are at the heart of Anu Dhabi’s footballing ambitions. The shenanigans with the Saudi league and the lack of movement of players between the clubs shows us we aren’t the centre of their footballing ambition.  

[Unbelievable]

1 hour ago, Dr Jinx said:

I think the elephant in the room which few are talking openly about is that there's every possibility that we're the unwanted child in a broken relationship now. There's PIF and The Reubens.. do they communicate at all? At board level, who's leading this? I think maybe the personalities involved are a little too affable or silver spoon for Yassir's liking.

 

Something feels slightly off, like we're in so much better shape than a few years ago so it's fully acceptable but i do wonder just how serious PIF and by extension Saudi are about positioning us for something a bit more. Everything has stalled and it's allowing doubt to creep in.

 

Also something maybe of battered wife syndrome when it comes to the fanbase after the Mike Ashley years.. we're going to need a bit more regular reassurance than we're currently getting, and a few words probably won't cut the mustard this time. We need to see something real and material.

 

Training Ground.. nothing been said about it. Understandable if not a current priority but at least say it's on the back burner for the moment.

Stadium - all been said in the other thread. It will take time for it to come together but an update (even to say no update) would be good.

Revenue increases - some new significant sponsorship would be great - it's gone a little quiet on the major deals they were talking about.

Clear up the situation with SD and Manager.. is there anything to clear up? If not then just say that.

 

Probably the worst thing they could do is draw attention to it by saying there is nothing there.

 

As for your unwanted child of a broken relationship theory, I'm sure PIF would buy out the Ruebens if the working relationship wasn't working for either party.

 

I'm not at all worried myself about our off the pitch progress. It's a distant third on my NUFC concerns list behind the shackles that are FFP/FMV and our mediocre performances so far this season potentially derailing the project where this season really CL qualification is almost a must if we want to push on.