PIF, PCP, and RB Sports & Media

[NE27]

1 hour ago, FloydianMag said:

I’m probably reading to much into it or he agrees.

 

Unless it was through the medium of bakery products, I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

 

[Jagten]

If anyone is interested, we hired a "head of data" to build out our non-existent analytics department who has no training in statistics. No comment. 

[NEEJ]

3 minutes ago, Jagten said:

If anyone is interested, we hired a "head of data" to build out our non-existent analytics department who has no training in statistics. No comment. 

A quick Google suggests he has an MRes in data science from Loughborough, like. 

[Jagten]

10 minutes ago, NEEJ said:

A quick Google suggests he has an MRes in data science from Loughborough, like. 

Not my interpretation of what that means, given Loughborough does not offer that course (?). Given undergrad, much more likely to be have involved some linear regression in excel. My point in highlighting this is, in comparison to e.g. Liverpool and Man City (and those in US analytics), I think we're looking at something very different. 

 

For example, Liverpool's director of research did his PhD in physics at Harvard, worked at CERN, spent 4 years applying his research to tracking in sports, before working at Liverpool. Clearly elite talent who could work at most hedge funds, which is what we should have got IMO 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Jagten

[NEEJ]

4 minutes ago, Jagten said:

Not my interpretation of what that means, given Loughborough does not offer that course (?). Given undergrad, much more likely to be have involved some linear regression in excel. My point in highlighting this is, in comparison to e.g. Liverpool and Man City (and those in US analytics), I think we're looking at something very different. 

 

 

 

Was probably this and the article incorrectly went with MRes instead of MSc: https://www.lboro.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/masters-degrees/a-z/data-science/#:~:text=This unique master's offers an,data analytics%2C management and stewardship.

 

Admittedly it's not a Havard PhD or work experience at CERN, but it would've been a bit more than linear regression in Excel, like.

[The Prophet]

Wasn't he employed by Chelsea for a fair chunk of time?

[Jagten]

2 minutes ago, NEEJ said:

Was probably this and the article incorrectly went with MRes instead of MSc: https://www.lboro.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/masters-degrees/a-z/data-science/#:~:text=This unique master's offers an,data analytics%2C management and stewardship.

 

Admittedly it's not a Havard PhD or work experience at CERN, but it would've been a bit more than linear regression in Excel, like.

I reckon it was an MRes with "data science" components in the dissertation, but who knows. He may be excellent, but as someone who does this for a living, it's not a CV I would have looked at, and a hire on paper that surprised me. 

[r0cafella]

Spoiler

David Ornstein: Newcastle do have some FFP space, Arlo, so it is possible for them to dip into the January market.

I’m not saying they’re able to go on a spending spree, because like all clubs they are acutely aware of the need to comply. The loss of European football will also detrimentally impact their financial situation, but certainly, it’s plausible to see them do something. The bigger issue is: what? I don’t think they’ve settled on an answer to that just yet. It sounds like no positions are off-limits if the right option arises.

Yes, a goalkeeper will be high in Newcastle’s thoughts after Nick Pope’s injury and Martin Dubravka not exactly setting the world alight so far in his absence. But are there goalkeepers available who they want, who want to come and who are of an acceptable price if the deal is to be permanent and loan package if it is temporary? Key days and weeks ahead to determine that.

Then comes centre-back — that will largely depend on if and how Sven Botman returns. I hear he is a couple of weeks away and if all goes well it’s a massive boost, especially with Dan Burn making his comeback last night. There was an assumption that Newcastle would replace Sandro Tonaliduring his ban but that is not a certainty; there is a world in which players like Sean Longstaff, Joe Willock, Elliot Anderson and Harvey Barnes regain fitness to give Eddie Howe enough options to adjust his squad until Tonali returns in August.

Ruben Neves is not happening — never say never, but I doubt Newcastle will sign anyone from the Saudi Pro League next month, for multiple reasons — and they have not moved on Kalvin Phillips so far. Speaking right now, given the injuries, I would expect some incoming activity — whether it be a short-term solution, something with the longer-term in mind or a summer plan brought forward.

But there’s no European football to worry about now and depending on the progress of the returnees, that could change.

 

Small update for everyone. 

[Kanji]

18 hours ago, Keegans Export said:

Some CL income estimates there. Suggests a minimum for us of about £27m.

 

I'm not sure how the gate receipts are calculated but even 50,000 paying £60 each is another £3m per home game. 

 

If those numbers are right we're not far off £40m in total.

so Paris get the most money for getting thrashed by us away, cucking a ref at home to draw us and then drawing away again to limp the fuck into the knockouts. Let’s not get it twisted, we were the outsiders biggest draw in the CL and half our team was dead and we nearly got thru apart from a screw job. 

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, Kanji said:

so Paris get the most money for getting thrashed by us away, cucking a ref at home to draw us and then drawing away again to limp the fuck into the knockouts. Let’s not get it twisted, we were the outsiders biggest draw in the CL and half our team was dead and we nearly got thru apart from a screw job. 

It’s another element of the ‘FFP’ which keeps the current mob in position.  It’s why I love seeing lectures from Bayern Munich and Dortmund etc re oil clubs and all that, before getting oversized payments based upon previous, and not current, performance - the ‘coefficient’ element.  Complete pisstake, total and utter racket. 

[FloydianMag]

https://x.com/nickdemarco_/status/1735644167521341793?s=61&t=Yt8DTJJ-7Jh_ndgpdGSFKQ

 

Worth a read especially in relation to FFP.

[r0cafella]

Ive been thinking for sometime now and still haven’t come up with a clear answer so let’s put this out there and see where everyone thinks. 
 

Am I the only one who isn’t exactly clear where we stand? I know the public professions have been we are going to be the biggest club in the world but I’m not 100% convinced by them tbh (PS this isn’t a criticism of the owners who have undoubtedly transformed the club). 
 

The reason for my thoughts are because we’ve left of a boatload of money on the table. We don’t have a training ground sponsor, we don’t have a training kit sponsor, we could do some stadium name rights ( Everton had a sponsor for a stadium which isn’t even built  ). 
 

we were looking for a plot of land for a new training complex two years ago) no updates. 
 

took us two years to start a feasibility study for stadium expansion. 
 

The Saudi pro league. 

Our multi club ambitions also seem to be in the long grass which is a strategic error imo. 

 

I mean the above factors are arguably in contrast to the stated public aims. 
 

And again, to repeat this isn’t a criticism of the owners, I just wanted to throw these things out there and see what others think. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by r0cafella

[Miggys First Goal]

Worrying. 

[CallumG6]

16 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Ive been thinking for sometime now and still haven’t come up with a clear answer so let’s put this out there and see where everyone thinks. 
 

Am I the only one who isn’t exactly clear where we stand? I know the public professions have been we are going to be the biggest club in the world but I’m not 100% convinced by them tbh (PS this isn’t a criticism of the owners who have undoubtedly transformed the club). 
 

The reason for my thoughts are because we’ve left of a boatload of money on the table. We don’t have a training ground sponsor, we don’t have a training kit sponsor, we could do some stadium name rights ( Everton had a sponsor for a stadium which isn’t even built  ). 
 

we were looking for a plot of land for a new training complex two years ago) no updates. 
 

took us two years to start a feasibility study for stadium expansion. 
 

The Saudi pro league. 

Our multi club ambitions also seem to be in the long grass which is a strategic error imo. 

 

I mean the above factors are arguably in contrast to the stated public aims. 
 

And again, to repeat this isn’t a criticism of the owners, I just wanted to throw these things out there and see what others think. 

 

 

 

I don’t think changing the stadium name to anything other than SJP will go down too well, even if there is a financial benefit to it. 

[NSG]

St James’ Park, in association with SELA.

 

The Noon Centre - Training Ground of Newcastle United.

 

Job done. Imagine we’ll get a training kit sponsor next year.

[The Prophet]

Interesting post.

 

I genuinely believe the owners want to make us the best team in Europe, but it takes time.

 

The new ownership structure has only been here two years. They took over a club in total disarray, which had been operating with a skeleton staff. It took over six months to appoint a Sporting Director and a CEO, from there various departments are being created and developed. We were so far behind other fully functioning football operations it was laughable.

 

On top of that, the bureaucracy in locating, purchasing and being granted permission on a plot for the training facility or a new stadium will be a complete headache.

 

The Saudi Pro League poses an interesting question. Personally I don't think there's too much joined-up thinking going on in that respect. They want Newcastle United to the best team in Europe, but also want a highly successful domestic leagues and as such are investing heavily in both.

 

Overall I don't have too many concerns about the ambitions of the owners to date. My only really grumbles stem from the state-ownership model (a symptom of the highly capitalised modern game) and the absolute mess they've made of ticketing.

 

[duo]

I think before we could do any of that we needed to hire the right people and we have only just done that.  Patience. 

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

 

25 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Ive been thinking for sometime now and still haven’t come up with a clear answer so let’s put this out there and see where everyone thinks. 
 

Am I the only one who isn’t exactly clear where we stand? I know the public professions have been we are going to be the biggest club in the world but I’m not 100% convinced by them tbh (PS this isn’t a criticism of the owners who have undoubtedly transformed the club). 
 

The reason for my thoughts are because we’ve left of a boatload of money on the table. We don’t have a training ground sponsor, we don’t have a training kit sponsor, we could do some stadium name rights ( Everton had a sponsor for a stadium which isn’t even built  ). 
 

we were looking for a plot of land for a new training complex two years ago) no updates. 
 

took us two years to start a feasibility study for stadium expansion. 
 

The Saudi pro league. 

Our multi club ambitions also seem to be in the long grass which is a strategic error imo. 

 

I mean the above factors are arguably in contrast to the stated public aims. 
 

And again, to repeat this isn’t a criticism of the owners, I just wanted to throw these things out there and see what others think. 

 

 

 

 

I've been thinking exactly the same.  Leaving potential commercial income on the table is weird.  I'm really looking forward to the day one of the training complex / ground decision is made.  I think until that time what we have seen is our club "just" being run well from an owner that is prepared to speculate to accumulate.  

[Infatuation Junkie]

We need to remember. City got took over. Went on an absolutely massive spending spree and very quickly become established as a force.

 

 

Then rules and regulations Came in. Stopping everyone else not already established to be stuck in a rut for years and years while they build a reputation. 
 

It is so hard now. I feel like unless we go to court and get these stupid FFB rules abolished for lack of equality among all clubs. We won’t get anywhere soon.

 

I suppose that’s why we were sold so cheap. Ashley done a great job of selling a club that was the equivalent of a damp, rundown council house in the poorest area of a city and the new owners trying to make it into a castle.

 

Im gutted that we can’t just go mental and spend spend spend. It’s insane that one club can spend 200mill in a transfer window when another in the same league can only spend 30mill.

 

If a club goes bankrupt. Then so be it. That’s what you get for being stupid.

 

 

Pisses me off.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Infatuation Junkie

[BShearer]

have the feeling the Saudi world cup bid of 2034 and the current bankrolling of the Saudi league took the priority in the football project of the Saudi plans.

 

really interested in the January window, some big loans from Saudi league would bring some criticism in the fake media but also would show proper ambition.

there was even a PL vote of it and red shirt cartel clubs could not reach majority to pass it, wonder if we use that to our advantage or not.

 

I do hope tho someone will have a word when next round of Saudi league transfers happen that they stop filling up the bank accounts our direct rivals with overpaying for some expensive dross.

I dont want them to spend huge fees for likes or Casemiro, Varane etc so rivals can get rid of their overpaid stars and get money no one else would pay for them in current market. (instead of being stuck with them for years stopping them to replace them for younger, more quality, more hungry players)

150/200m fees quoted  for 33 year old Salah is madness.

 unless they take Dubravka for 90m and Dummet for another 70m.

[FloydianMag]

1 hour ago, Infatuation Junkie said:

We need to remember. City got took over. Went on an absolutely massive spending spree and very quickly become established as a force.

 

 

Then rules and regulations Came in. Stopping everyone else not already established to be stuck in a rut for years and years while they build a reputation. 
 

It is so hard now. I feel like unless we go to court and get these stupid FFB rules abolished for lack of equality among all clubs. We won’t get anywhere soon.

 

I suppose that’s why we were sold so cheap. Ashley done a great job of selling a club that was the equivalent of a damp, rundown council house in the poorest area of a city and the new owners trying to make it into a castle.

 

Im gutted that we can’t just go mental and spend spend spend. It’s insane that one club can spend 200mill in a transfer window when another in the same league can only spend 30mill.

 

If a club goes bankrupt. Then so be it. That’s what you get for being stupid.

 

 

Pisses me off.

 

 

 

I’ve said in a number of posts on here that the only way is to instigate a legal challenge against FFP and FMV. Governing bodies in football are involving themselves in clubs commercial activities and that is a breach of competition law. I’ll post this link to NDM once again who more or less confirms this. The club should, at a PL meeting confront the other clubs or go down the legal route.

 

https://x.com/nickdemarco_/status/1735644167521341793?s=61&t=Yt8DTJJ-7Jh_ndgpdGSFKQ

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

Didn't Nick De Marco recently suggest it's open to legal challenge on a BBC talk-in?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by The Prophet

[Stifler]

I honestly think people are looking into the Saudi stuff too much. The Saudi World Cup, and league won’t have a bearing on what we do, and what money we have.

[Tsunami]

We’re a long term project, we’re ahead of schedule. Now until the end of the season will be interesting on the playing side (and what Ashworth decides if Man U come calling).

 

PIF will be looking at what needs doing and in what order. Eddie has a big few months coming up, he’ll have a fair idea of which players he’ll have back and when. Intensity is our identity needs a plan b and c if we are to become a perennial top 4/ 6 contender.

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Ive been thinking for sometime now and still haven’t come up with a clear answer so let’s put this out there and see where everyone thinks. 
 

Am I the only one who isn’t exactly clear where we stand? I know the public professions have been we are going to be the biggest club in the world but I’m not 100% convinced by them tbh (PS this isn’t a criticism of the owners who have undoubtedly transformed the club). 
 

The reason for my thoughts are because we’ve left of a boatload of money on the table. We don’t have a training ground sponsor, we don’t have a training kit sponsor, we could do some stadium name rights ( Everton had a sponsor for a stadium which isn’t even built  ). 
 

we were looking for a plot of land for a new training complex two years ago) no updates. 
 

took us two years to start a feasibility study for stadium expansion. 
 

The Saudi pro league. 

Our multi club ambitions also seem to be in the long grass which is a strategic error imo. 

 

I mean the above factors are arguably in contrast to the stated public aims. 
 

And again, to repeat this isn’t a criticism of the owners, I just wanted to throw these things out there and see what others think. 

 

 

 

No, you’re right.  I’m still convinced that this is far more of a passive investment than most other people think.  The commercial deals have been slow in coming and not exactly pulling up trees; PIF’s complete lack of involvement in the day-to-day running is another flag.  It wouldn’t be difficult to have a permanent member of the board on Tyneside who is a PIF person.

 

They have stated that they want to be ‘number 1‘.  This is standard sales patter in the ME - plenty fall for it, with the ‘they only get the best’ stuff the standard response.  What usually happens is that they get nothing like the best, though they do usually pay through the nose.  
 

Plenty of talk about ‘the project’ and it needing time - but two years is actually quite a long time, and the radio silence is a constant theme.  Just a guess, but I think that there is a good chance that PIF didn’t really consider the rules in place to prevent a simple pump-and-grow investment in football these days.  

 

The club won’t go through the legal challenge routes re FFP - they’d need a stalking horse for that.  There is no chance whatsoever that the KSA govt challenges the rules of the English FA & PL in a UK court - it would be a minor diplomatic issue over a passive investment.  That’s the reason why they have accepted everything thrown at them to date.  If the FFP shackles are off, we would likely see greater investment - but no-one should hold their breath for NUFC to be the club which does it.