The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Joey Linton]

13 minutes ago, gbandit said:

I look on Twitter and see some pretty horrible replies from NUFC accounts whenever people bring up Saudi Arabian human rights issues and it makes me think more about the sportswashing debate.

That's not the case on here though. Perhaps Froggy should take his shit WUM attempts there if that's his game. 

[gbandit]

I think he was just high off a Man U win. He’s alright provided he doesn’t have something to crow about 

[TRon]

8 hours ago, triggs said:

I don't really care. I only watch NUFC when ASM plays these days. Also has nothing to do with this discussion

 

Well you should care. If you were that bothered about 81 people being executed you should welcome swapping owners with Man U.

[christ]

22 minutes ago, gbandit said:

I look on Twitter and see some pretty horrible replies from NUFC accounts whenever people bring up Saudi Arabian human rights issues and it makes me think more about the sportswashing debate.

 

A useful parallel is racism, we think that racism has improved significantly since the 80s but then we get spates of hate crimes in response to Brexit and Covid, and xenophobia feels worse than it has been in well over two decades and you realise that so many of these racists were hiding in plain sight all along.

 

Then I think about some of these people defending the SA regime using whataboutery and deflection and it makes me think, they’re not really sportswashed are they? They’re just dickheads who were dickheads all along. It’s not like the takeover has genuinely changed their opinion of Saudi Arabia. Decent people will hold issue with SA irrespective of whether they’re an NUFC fan or not. These same NUFC idiots who defend Saudi Arabia online would be going all in on them had they taken over Sunderland.

 

I’m not sure if I’m making a coherent point here or not, but I think it’s up for debate how superficial sportswashing can be or is

That’s part of what sportswashing is. Saudi didn’t just buy a football club, they bought legions of fans who’ll “ah yes but” any criticism because they’ll view it is an attack on them personally. 
 

8 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

That's not the case on here though. Perhaps Froggy should take his shit WUM attempts there if that's his game. 

You read this thread? Because that’s exactly the case. A load of people trying to sidestep the issue, just under the auspices of asking questions instead of what you might get on Twitter. It’s the same thing.

[Tiresias]

28 minutes ago, gbandit said:

I look on Twitter and see some pretty horrible replies from NUFC accounts whenever people bring up Saudi Arabian human rights issues and it makes me think more about the sportswashing debate.

 

A useful parallel is racism, we think that racism has improved significantly since the 80s but then we get spates of hate crimes in response to Brexit and Covid, and xenophobia feels worse than it has been in well over two decades and you realise that so many of these racists were hiding in plain sight all along.

 

Then I think about some of these people defending the SA regime using whataboutery and deflection and it makes me think, they’re not really sportswashed are they? They’re just dickheads who were dickheads all along. It’s not like the takeover has genuinely changed their opinion of Saudi Arabia. Decent people will hold issue with SA irrespective of whether they’re an NUFC fan or not. These same NUFC idiots who defend Saudi Arabia online would be going all in on them had they taken over Sunderland.

 

I’m not sure if I’m making a coherent point here or not, but I think it’s up for debate how superficial sportswashing can be or is

 

Yeah I kinda agree with this, I am not sure sport washing actually works? Especially if it keeps the horrible crap in the discussion. I have to admit I remain with severely mixed feelings about the club still, I thought may be able to get comfortable with it but it's not settling right with me. Football has got drunk on money and it is not a good thing. Still going to enjoy us for a while, I didn't have any say in all this. To clarify it does work as mentioned above, it does get legions defending awful shit, just think if it keeps the bad stuff in the news too because of it can be self defeating.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Tiresias

[Guest neesy111]

I think what @christ has said is right.  They are buying the fans to do the sportswashing for them. 

[gbandit]

2 minutes ago, christ said:

That’s part of what sportswashing is. Saudi didn’t just buy a football club, they bought legions of fans who’ll “ah yes but” any criticism because they’ll view it is an attack on them personally.

I know that’s what sportswashing is, what I’m asking is about how superficial it is. Sure, SA have people batting for them on Twitter which on the face of it counts for a lot but are they genuinely changing people’s perceptions of SA? Maybe for a small amount of people but the majority of these people defending them were either awful dickheads to begin with or they’re only temporary cheerleaders

[christ]

4 minutes ago, gbandit said:

I know that’s what sportswashing is, what I’m asking is about how superficial it is. Sure, SA have people batting for them on Twitter which on the face of it counts for a lot but are they genuinely changing people’s perceptions of SA? Maybe for a small amount of people but the majority of these people defending them were either awful dickheads to begin with or they’re only temporary cheerleaders

The superficiality of the ‘support’ doesn’t matter. Having people who are able and willing to argue back, to repeat propaganda and talking points, to muddy the water is what matters. So that when people who know the square root of fuck all about what’s going on do have cause to think or research Saudi they don’t think “religious fanaticism and murderous despot”, they think “it’s complicated”.

[madras]

Id be happier if the powers that be could get rid of all the dodgy money but that has to be across the board, not just us, not just ownerships but but sponsors, global partners etc.

 

It just reeks of hypocrisy from froggy whose club have took decades of money from Saudi and China.

[Joey Linton]

11 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

I think what @christ has said is right.  They are buying the fans to do the sportswashing for them. 

They definitely are, no doubt about that. 

 

Some fans of other clubs, as happened on here, are more than happy to provoke the situation be intimating that there's a tacit approval from our fans of what's happening in Saudi Arabia / Yemen. 

[gbandit]

Fair response @christ I think the muddying of waters is definitely an information war tool. I just wonder how effective it will be here given that surely most people are aware already or won’t have to look far to find out about human rights issues in KSA

[Pixelphish]

3 minutes ago, madras said:

Id be happier if the powers that be could get rid of all the dodgy money but that has to be across the board, not just us, not just ownerships but but sponsors, global partners etc.

 

It just reeks of hypocrisy from froggy whose club have took decades of money from Saudi and China.

 

The dream but doubtful it will happen in our lifetimes. I think I fall in the boat of I'm happy NUFC can aim to be successful, but I'll never feel the same about football as I did for a number of reasons.

 

Jaded is probably the best word.

[Dandy Man]

Its funny because I would have generally always been a strong critic of Saudi Arabia, but when friends who support other teams bring up the same sort of criticism but include the Newcastle United element my first reaction is always to get someway defensive.

 

This stuff is not going to go away and will just get worse if and when the team start achieving anything. If the roles were reversed I would definitely be giving stick to friends who were fans of a team owned by Saudis anyway.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Dandy Man

[triggs]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

Out of curiosity, why is this? I had wondered about the number of fans who’d cut or reduced ties with the club because of our new ownership. Like, what happened to Incognito, does he post under a new name (no pun intended) or has he quit the forum?

Mixture of losing interest in football in general and I'm just not sure what the point is

[triggs]

34 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Well you should care. If you were that bothered about 81 people being executed you should welcome swapping owners with Man U.

The thickest poster ever to grace this forum which is a canny achievement

[gbandit]

4 minutes ago, triggs said:

Mixture of losing interest in football in general and I'm just not sure what the point is

Fair play, sorry to hear you’ve fallen out of love with the game. I’m right back in but I would love not to have Saudi owners. As has been mentioned before in this thread though, the sport is an absolute mess and riddled with corrupt owners and it’s hard to see a way back for it right now 

[TRon]

9 minutes ago, triggs said:

The thickest poster ever to grace this forum which is a canny achievement

 

At least I'm not reduced to personal insults when I don't have an answer.

[Khalidao]

Among those 81 executed are ISIS members who murdered AND tortured Police officers and their families, random civilians and foreigners. Two brothers who killed their entire family because they thought they aren't muslims enough. Now these 81 serial killers and absolute worthless criminals committed their crimes over a period of 10 years or more. Executing them all in the same day is what probably gave the western media a chance to fill their front pages. But at the end of the day, these were some of the worst criminals in the kingdom's history and I would assume 99% of the general public are pretty content and feel much safer.

[Bompeter]

1 minute ago, Khalidao said:

Among those 81 executed are ISIS members who murdered AND tortured Police officers and their families, random civilians and foreigners. Two brothers who killed their entire family because they thought they aren't muslims enough. Now these 81 serial killers and absolute worthless criminals committed their crimes over a period of 10 years or more. Executing them all in the same day is what probably gave the western media a chance to fill their front pages. But at the end of the day, these were some of the worst criminals in the kingdom's history and I would assume 99% of the general public are pretty content and feel much safer.

 

Were there any individuals executed that weren't ISIS members? 

[Guest neesy111]

It's says in the first sentence there were others.

[Khalidao]

Just now, Bompeter said:

 

Were there any individuals executed that weren't ISIS members? 

 

Most are ISIS. The rest are Houthi insurgents who also killed innocent police officers in the streets and at check points as a retaliation for the war in Yemen.

[Thumbheed]

Debating the merits of these executions is probably not the path best trodden, considering the only info we have on the "crimes" commited by those excuted is from the Saudi media. 

[Heron]

Today's coverage will be unbearable

[Dandy Man]

Sure chopping off the heads of 81 people in public is barbaric but it also provides a boost to the local executioner and blood clean up industries, so both sides..

[Bompeter]

For the avoidance of doubt, @Khalidao is a Saudi propagandist who sees it has his job to justify the brutality of the Saudi state. We don't actually know the identities of those executed because death row inmates are denied basic legal rights. It is just as likely (read: almost certain) that there were human rights campaigners and dissidents murdered yesterday.