The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[McCormick]

Most if not all PIF strategic investments have been “ready-made solutions”; buying an international event company (despite having a few of their own failing  ones), buying Uber despite having Saudi-made, government operated ones like Jeeny and countless other examples. KSA PLC has a clear focus on quick growth and success and this has been a cornerstone for their economic development for years, decades even.
 

You say 

9 minutes ago, HTT II said:

it would just be a continuation of success already achieved by others.

Yet KSA’s ascension over the last 50 years has been centered on exactly this. They didn’t have the expertise/ operational structures before (and still don’t really) but did have a lot of money; so they went out and bought it. Even culturally, the idea of buying something less than stellar and fixing-it-up isn’t really something that you can ascribe to the majority of (high-net-worth) Saudis. Buying success now, instead of slow-build success is a key part of their growth model.

 

Obviously giga projects are slightly different but this NUFC project obviously doesn’t fall into this category.

[buzza]

Manu are selling a minority share because some of the other persons in the Glazer family want out.

Seems like the brothers, Abel andCane/Ashley & Mike, or whatever they are called, are not interested in selling and would like to continue in their positions and exploit further their leveraged money cow.

It does seem like Manu have their own version of the same parasite we had. I have absolutely no shame in saying that I am enjoying their fall from grace after so many years of their arrogant existence.

[Guest HTT II]

2 minutes ago, McCormick said:

Most if not all PIF strategic investments have been “ready-made solutions”; buying an international event company (despite having a few of their own failing  ones), buying Uber despite having Saudi-made, government operated ones like Jeeny and countless other examples. KSA PLC has a clear focus on quick growth and success and this has been a cornerstone for their economic development for years, decades even.
 

You say 

Yet KSA’s ascension over the last 50 years has been centered on exactly this. They didn’t have the expertise/ operational structures before (and still don’t really) but did have a lot of money; so they went out and bought it. Even culturally, the idea of buying something less than stellar and fixing-it-up isn’t really something that you can ascribe to the majority of (high-net-worth) Saudis. Buying success now, instead of slow-build success is a key part of their growth model.

 

Obviously giga projects are slightly different but this NUFC project obviously doesn’t fall into this category.

You obviously know more than me when it comes to their culture and stuff, but again I’m just going off what people who have originated from there tell me. They have said mind, PIF buying NUFC in terms of the price they paid and their 80% ownership is substantial in terms of their ambitions or rather what they seek out of attaining a PL football club long-term, and that’s huge success.

[Coffee_Johnny]

47 minutes ago, HTT II said:

RE this poor lass, I’ve been reading up on her and her so-called crimes and it’s obviously disgusting how they’ve treated her and that’s not even one of the worst crimes they have committed against their own people and I have to say, I don’t think I’ll ever be back at SJP other than the odd Cup game if only for my boys.
 

My youngest son’s team-mates, most of them have season tickets and I know he feels left out as he loves football, but I wouldn’t feel OK giving money to this regime in the way I didn’t with Ashley. That said, if I told him he could have 90 minutes at SJP watching the Toon or 90 minutes kicking a ball about on some field, he’d choose the latter.

 

My oldest doesn’t like football weirdly enough in terms of playing it, but if I said fancy a game at SJP he’d put both hands up. I’ll support us from the sofa and bask in any glory as an armchair fan these days, but even then, it won’t ever quite feel the same. Ideally the game will implode and all these chancers, murderous regimes, hedge funds and absolute cunts will disappear from the game.

 

I need to get my two to more Gateshead games for their footy fix… and mine!

Sorry to hear you’re so conflicted. You obviously love NUFC, and spend so much time writing and thinking about ‘us’,  it must be hard to be ‘half in’.
 

I don’t know how others reconcile their concerns, if they have them, about KSA being in the background of our ownership. I wouldn’t dream of espousing what is right thing to do. Each to their own.
 

Personally, I have adopted the same kind of approach I took to other regimes, whether McKeag et al., (lesser) concerns about the Halls and Shepherd, and the previous shitshow. A bit head in the sand maybe, but as long as I can identify with and respect the values of the leadership closest to the players, and most involved in the direction the club is taking, then I am in. I opted out after the infuriating disrespect to and undermining of Keegan, drifted back and then opted out when Rafa experienced similar. I’m 100% back in now. Hope you find a way of reconciling things, mate. Or are more comfortable, than I imagine I would be, staying as you are.

[TRon]

59 minutes ago, McCormick said:

So am I  .

 

Saudi’s tend to want success quickly and will usually pay a premium for that. With PIF in particular, they love a ready-made solution.

 

That works well for us both ways IMO. They aren't the type to jump ship and attach themselves to a different region or club once they've hung their mast on one, would probably be seen as flaky in their culture. You just have to see how long they've clung onto centuries old customs for proof of that. Also if they want success quickly, that means they are more likely to invest more money in buying what the club needs to get us there in the shortest route possible. All seems good to me.

[Kanj]

@McCormickdo you ever wonder if Newcastle is really a Yasir thing? Like he really went above and beyond / against normal PIF convention and did this deal because of various reasons, even personal ones. 

[McCormick]

2 minutes ago, Kanji said:

@McCormickdo you ever wonder if Newcastle is really a Yasir thing? Like he really went above and beyond / against normal PIF convention and did this deal because of various reasons, even personal ones. 

Wouldn’t be in my best interests to speculate on that

[buzza]

1 minute ago, Kanji said:

@McCormickdo you ever wonder if Newcastle is really a Yasir thing? Like he really went above and beyond / against normal PIF convention and did this deal because of various reasons, even personal ones. 

Mid life crisis? Instead of buying a Harley he went all out and bought a premier league toy, in Saudi wealth terms it would be a decent ratio

[triggs]

Haven't been following the club that closely, why do people think they've been quite slow in the transfer market over the summer?

 

Can see it being a Howe decision but just interested if there are any other theories.

[Dokko]

2 minutes ago, triggs said:

Haven't been following the club that closely, why do people think they've been quite slow in the transfer market over the summer?

 

Can see it being a Howe decision but just interested if there are any other theories.

 

* FFP

* Want value for money

* Want the right characters

* Going for players bigger clubs than us want as well

* Clubs still trying to squeeze us for PIF tax

* Agents & clubs moving goalposts

* Believe patience is key

* Lack of sponsors coming in this season

* Still getting the right people into positions behind the scenes

* Building relationships with other clubs

[Lotus]

3 minutes ago, triggs said:

Haven't been following the club that closely, why do people think they've been quite slow in the transfer market over the summer?

 

Can see it being a Howe decision but just interested if there are any other theories.

As has been pointed out before, in the past Howe has been quite wedded to the UK market. That mayyyyyyy be a factor. Hard to say as the signings of Bruno and Botman obvs defy this. We also don’t know if Howe genuinely had much input in the scouting of those players.

But, the UK market rarely offers value for money. Clearly, the idea that the player is acclimated to the place and culture pushes the price up. 
Wonder if there’s any data to actually support the notion that English based players are lower risk?
We were fairly quick with Pope and Botman.

I’m guessing there is a line of thought that strikers are always harder to find. Couldn’t validate that myself, every team has them like! 
The pattern of our forward targets is a little strange to me.

The Joke Maddison bid is a definite outlier.

Some obvs similarities between Pedro and Etikite.

Ramos, I dunno. 
The point there is that I’m struggling to see the pattern other than value for money.

But, I’m not in the room with them so can only come to half baked conclusions from the little evidence presented.

[Lotus]

Also, what he said…..

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Sorry to hear you’re so conflicted. You obviously love NUFC, and spend so much time writing and thinking about ‘us’,  it must be hard to be ‘half in’.
 

I don’t know how others reconcile their concerns, if they have them, about KSA being in the background of our ownership. I wouldn’t dream of espousing what is right thing to do. Each to their own.
 

Personally, I have adopted the same kind of approach I took to other regimes, whether McKeag et al., (lesser) concerns about the Halls and Shepherd, and the previous shitshow. A bit head in the sand maybe, but as long as I can identify with and respect the values of the leadership closest to the players, and most involved in the direction the club is taking, then I am in. I opted out after the infuriating disrespect to and undermining of Keegan, drifted back and then opted out when Rafa experienced similar. I’m 100% back in now. Hope you find a way of reconciling things, mate. Or are more comfortable, than I imagine I would be, staying as you are.

I’m happy Ashley is gone and I’m loving the reconnect from fans with the club and AS and her husband seem lovely people and I’m now wanting us to win games and be the best we can again, but that passion that used to exist just isn’t there anymore and it does tear at me who our owners are and how I reconcile that with my own feelings on the subject relating to how I feel about them now owning my club.

 

It’s a tough one. I’ve told myself just don’t put any money into the club and not to go to games unless it’s the odd cup games or friendlies with the boys as I don’t want them missing out on NUFC growing up as one loves playing footy and the other likes watching it. We loved the women’s Euros for example and they’ve been to quite a few Gateshead games over the years and I plan on taking them to a few Blue Star games as they are on our doorstep.

 

I know the day will come soon when my boys will want a season ticket and I’m probably going to disappoint them and say no, even if we had different owners I don’t think I could be chowed with the whole match day carry on nor the costs.

 

FWIW I would never condemn anyone who goes and turns a blind eye so to speak to who owns us, or just doesn’t want to concern themselves with such issues. I mean it concerns me, but it won’t stop me rooting for my club and enjoying games and any success that follows, from my armchair of course.

 

One thing I do think about a lot is what Wor Flags are doing, I’ve said it for a while, they are and have been the best thing about NUFC for me and I have loads of mates who have season tickets and they constantly tell me how much me and my boys are missing out regarding the atmosphere and their displays and how much I’d be loving it. I love seeing their displays from the telly, but I know I’d rather be there in that atmosphere in person.

 

I jacked my season ticket it when KK walked and literally totally boycotted the club under him for the last decade or so and actively rooted for us to lose just to get rid of him and Pardew and Bruce and I also criticised fans that still went and spent their money during those years, I’d feel hypocritical getting a ST and in all honesty, I’d rather a young fan get one and enjoy what I did under KK and Sir Bobby especially. 

 

 

[Guest HTT II]

41 minutes ago, Kanji said:

@McCormickdo you ever wonder if Newcastle is really a Yasir thing? Like he really went above and beyond / against normal PIF convention and did this deal because of various reasons, even personal ones. 

I think he has clearly been won over if you like and must surely have a huge buzz for all things NUFC like us fans do, he literally looks like a kid in a sweet shop or at Xmas every match he attends and I know a few coaches, scouts and parents whose kids are at the academy who have met him and they all say he seems star struck and in his element at the whole experience even more than they themselves are. I personally think because of that he will have a more invested interest in NUFC and it’s success than just commercially where PIF is concerned. 

[Guest HTT II]

31 minutes ago, triggs said:

Haven't been following the club that closely, why do people think they've been quite slow in the transfer market over the summer?

 

Can see it being a Howe decision but just interested if there are any other theories.

I think we are very selective obviously in the type and kind of player we want and that narrows down things massively. For example Sarr, Dennis et al would improve us, but they clearly want a certain type of player. That and what others above have noted. I think we’ll sign 2 minimum, 3 max and will spend good money still before the end of the window, we may need to go outside of whatever box we have mind to sign such players…

[Yorkie]

39 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

* FFP

* Want value for money

* Want the right characters

* Going for players bigger clubs than us want as well

* Clubs still trying to squeeze us for PIF tax

* Agents & clubs moving goalposts

* Believe patience is key

* Lack of sponsors coming in this season

* Still getting the right people into positions behind the scenes

* Building relationships with other clubs

 

All right, but an extension to the bit in bold is learning from the likes of Everton and QPR (the latter of whom Reuben was obviously educated on first hand). Spending loads in a short space of time has been varying shades of disastrous for those clubs.

[Hovagod]

I notice that in their pompous list of demands about a new shareholder, the Manchester United trust has failed to mention human rights or Yemen. 

[TheBrownBottle]

21 hours ago, Hovagod said:

I notice that in their pompous list of demands about a new shareholder, the Manchester United trust has failed to mention human rights or Yemen. 

That statement is horrendously entitled. Surely Man Utd spending its own income on infrastructure and players would do the trick - not financing the leveraged buy-out?  ‘New owner should be chucking money at the club’.  Bunch of twats. 

 

Its sums up perfectly why so many hate them, and why their current mediocrity is mana from heaven

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by TheBrownBottle

[Rafalove]

21 hours ago, Hovagod said:

I notice that in their pompous list of demands about a new shareholder, the Manchester United trust has failed to mention human rights or Yemen. 

 

 

What is pompous about it?

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Rafalove said:

 

 

What is pompous about it?

“Any prospective new owner or investor has to be committed to the culture, ethos and best traditions of the club. They have to be willing to invest to restore United to former glories, and that investment must be real new money spent on the playing side and the stadium.”

 

Every word of that would be my starter for ten.  A functioning Man Utd brings in £700m+ per season.  They don’t need outside capital. 

[Rafalove]

Hadn’t  seen it before, so was a genuine question. You could argue that. Don’t think there’s too much wrong with that. It’s true Manchester United don’t need outside capital but I would imagine, it’s something most fans of most clubs would be interested in. Including our own.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting new owners of your football club to “be committed to the culture, ethos and best traditions of the club. I only wish we had diene something similar when Ashley was here

[madras]

4 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

Hadn’t  seen it before, so was a genuine question. You could argue that. Don’t think there’s too much wrong with that. It’s true Manchester United don’t need outside capital but I would imagine, it’s something most fans of most clubs would be interested in. Including our own.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting new owners of your football club to “be committed to the culture, ethos and best traditions of the club. I only wish we had diene something similar when Ashley was here

Culture, Ethos and Traditions of Man Utd ? Sense of entitlement seems to cover all 3.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by madras

[Rafalove]

It’s not self entitlement at all they want what is best for their club.

[madras]

8 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

It’s not self entitlement at all they want what is best for their club.

No doubt but what has that to do with any self professed culture, ethos or tradition.

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 minute ago, Rafalove said:

It’s not self entitlement at all they want what is best for their club.

I think that’s fair, but there is only so long the ‘we are Manchester United’ expectation/entitlement-filled narrative is going to ring true. You’re only as good as your last season.
 

Their 58 points last year is their worst haul in 30 years in the Premier League. Though they did once finish 7th— in 2013-14, albeit with more points.