The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Hanshithispantz]

Nobody is truly conflicted man

 

The violation of human rights is so insane that anybody who was truly conflicted would struggle with following the club. I'm not going to go as far as claiming faux outrage, as highlighting this stuff is important (even if the ones shouting about it tend to be annoying as fuck), but the vast majority of it is probably posturing (Newcastle fans) or jelousy (other fans). The latter is pretty simple, it generally isn't a great feeling to see your rivals doing well, so trying to find easy comfort helps. There isn't a single group of fans in the prem that wouldn't be wanking themselves in the streets if this had happened to them. Like are we truly meant to believe that hammers fans would be out in droves with banners in hand telling the PLC to fuck off back to saudi if West Ham randomly became the ritchest club on the planet overnight No, they would be exactly the same as us, East London would be absolutely stinking of jizz.

 

The amount of damage we collectively cause is fucking astronomical, I'm not drawing the line at my club turing into PSG like

[Ben]

My ignorance of middle eastern politics and culture protects my from feeling shit about something I have no control over.

 

I did watch a canny documentary on Saudi desert wildlife the other day which was nice 

[InspectorCoarse]

 

[Guest neesy111]

Can we not post stuff from GBN.

[ElDiablo]

[Theregulars]

I don’t think it’s as complex as people, and some opinion columns in particular, are making out. Everything in life is multi-faceted but we seem to have this need to declare something either good or bad as a binary matter. 
 

In most walks of life, things are both good and bad at the same time. A basic example is how I feel about work: it’s great to have a salary and some spending money, occasionally work is quite fun and interesting to the mind and you make friends. On the other hand, it can be boring and repetitive, it’s too constant and intrudes on your private life more than you want.

 

In this instance, there are many good things  - a club which has been neglected and ruined gets reinvigorated and a region which needs investment gets it when it wouldn’t have otherwise, benefitting millions of people. There are also bad things about it, because the people ultimately behind the money get up to some pretty nasty shit and are arguably doing this to distract from that. It also is the latest step in our national sport being a persistent commodity for sale. 
 

In our world it doesn’t seem normal or fashionable to view things analytically and consider both sides and say that neither “wins out”: you are pressured to have a resolution because maybe we can’t deal with any degree of complexity anymore. Everything that’s been said about the takeover is pretty valid. It doesn’t make one a hypocrite to enjoy supporting Newcastle again while KSA stones women or murders dissidents, in my opinion. You can be both delighted at the investment and deeply perturbed by the terrible acts at the same time - most things exist in conflict and we’ve always got to take the good and the bad. 

[David Edgar]

1 minute ago, InspectorCoarse said:

 

 

Oh we are not having this bollocks channel on here 

[InspectorCoarse]

8 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

Can we not post stuff from GBN.

Why ? 

 

 

[David Edgar]

Just now, InspectorCoarse said:

Why ? 

 

 

 

Actually, you shouldn't be stopped.  But that channel is full of awful people with terrible opinions.  Just need to be aware of that and accept it'll be decried by many.

[Aiston]

We should never forget what scum the new owners are.

[RS]

Business as usual is ok but buy little Newcastle Utd and the Saudis are all suddenly sabre wielding terrorists. 
 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1022854/saudi-arabia-trade-and-investment-factsheet-2021-10-07.pdf

Total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) between the UK and Saudi Arabia was £8.5 billion in the four quarters to the end of Q1 2021
In the four quarters to the end of Q1 2021, total UK exports to Saudi Arabia amounted to £6.7 billion (an increase of 5.6% or £355 million compared to the four quarters to the end of Q1 2020).
This means the UK reported a total trade surplus of £4.9 billion with Saudi Arabia

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-uk-arms-sale-b1884158.html

 

British arms sales to Saudi Arabian regime three times higher than previously thought, investigation finds

Probe of secretive open licence system finds total sales since Yemen bombardment began is close £20 billion. 

 

 

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

There would probably be a few German clubs would turn their back on it; but yeah not a single set of PL fans would. Don’t agree that you can’t be conflicted, or it’s posturing from our fans. 

 

I mean if people actually take action (I assume a small amount will) and walk away from the club (or campaign against the owners or something) then fair play to them, they aren't posturing. The vast majority of it is though, I just cannot wrap my brain around how anyone could be 'conflicted' about something as legitimately serious as human rights, and human rights abusers purchasing their club, and still come to the conclusion that it's okay to support said club.

 

Like personally I'm perfectly fine in admitting that I couldn't give a shit who owns us as long as I can enjoy watching football again. Adolf Hitler could have rose from the grave to buy out Ashley and I'd have shook the blokes hand.

[David Edgar]

1 minute ago, Aiston said:

We should never forget what scum the new owners are.

 

Don't think language like this is gonna help the discourse though.  But yeah, the Saudi government are horrid and need to sort their shit out.

[Ben]

Did those monsters at the trust get their 1% 

[InspectorCoarse]

1 minute ago, David Edgar said:

 

Actually, you shouldn't be stopped.  But that channel is full of awful people with terrible opinions.  Just need to be aware of that and accept it'll be decried by many.

So is Sky and so is the BBC etc , theyre all full of shit ( i watch none of the above btw for that reason ) thought id post it cos its the one positive view ive seen from tv media

[Sima]

1 hour ago, ManDoon said:

Man this comment:

 

”Here we go typical bloody Guardian ideology shite. Human rights, whatever that means, if indeed human rights actually exist. Is just a means of imposing one’s own moral judgement upon another regardless of any consideration other than their own perceived piety.”

 

What in actual fuck. “Human rights? That’s bullshit”. Wow people are depressing 

 

dazcurry?

[loki679]

2 minutes ago, InspectorCoarse said:

So is Sky and so is the BBC etc , theyre all full of shit ( i watch none of the above btw for that reason ) thought id post it cos its the one positive view ive seen from tv media

 

Bit of a stretch calling that shite 'tv media'.  It's a visual tissue for a bunch of wankers.

[Hanshithispantz]

1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

Because it’s not as simple as that. You’re talking about something that has been a massive part of people’s lives for years and years, and it’s the same as anything, people wear Nike, but they know where it comes from, people eat meat and know the processes, people trade in a bit of morality every single day. Also the fact that they won’t see it as MBS running the club, just money. The money that is awash in the country.

 

Just because you don’t feel conflicted doesn’t mean no one else is or that they automatically bin it off. As for the last part, yeah cool. 

 

There's a difference between understanding and recognising something and being uncomfortable or conflicted with it though. If I was uncomfortable with eating meat then I wouldn't eat meat. I understand the damage it causes but ultimately I love meat. There's no conflict or discomfort there, as there isn't with the vast majority of meat eaters. Those who are genuinely uncomfortable with it will ultimately become vegetarian.

 

The Nike example is a good one, because not wearing Nike is an easy thing to do. Like would you seriously take anyone seriously who was sported head to toe in Nike gear whilst claiming they're uncomfortable or conflicted with the slave labour it came from?

 

I suppose posturing is probably a bit much, but over the past couple of days I've seen so many hot takes from people trying to take some kind of moral high ground, when in reality they will take no actions themselves.

[Dr Jinx]

The fuss will die down, I don’t recall Chelsea supporters ever having to answer for Roman Abramovich’s link to Putin or dodgy business dealings but Man City certainly got a bit, probably nowhere near as much as what we will over the next few months.

 

It’s 80% people who just have a gripe with the wealth, a quick scan of peoples Twitter timelines shows human rights or even the Khashoggi murder were things they never thought to mention before. But now they are experts on the matter?

 

Im not uncomfortable at all with it because I believe PIF are separate enough, Yasir Al-Rumayyan is the one in charge here and he’s extremely capable, sure is he doing a good job for the Prince? Yes of course but MBS knows this man will do a far better job than his personally interfering would ever do which is why he’ll stay out of it.

 

Not even sure he’ll make an appearance at SJP, at least not until things really quieten down

[InspectorCoarse]

Theres been a lot of performative hand wringing in the media , it'll pass , we wont be challenging for awhile yet but when we do - thats when the real hate against us will start . Let them get on with it , we will bathe in their ( other clubs , hacks talking shite ) tears 

[Guest neesy111]

4 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

The fuss will die down, I don’t recall Chelsea supporters ever having to answer for Roman Abramovich’s link to Putin or dodgy business dealings but Man City certainly got a bit, probably nowhere near as much as what we will over the next few months.

 

It’s 80% people who just have a gripe with the wealth, a quick scan of peoples Twitter timelines shows human rights or even the Khashoggi murder were things they never thought to mention before. But now they are experts on the matter?

 

Im not uncomfortable at all with it because I believe PIF are separate enough, Yasir Al-Rumayyan is the one in charge here and he’s extremely capable, sure is he doing a good job for the Prince? Yes of course but MBS knows this man will do a far better job than his personally interfering would ever do which is why he’ll stay out of it.

 

Not even sure he’ll make an appearance at SJP, at least not until things really quieten down

 

Social media was not around for chelsea takeover and in its infancy for the city takeover.  Think that is magnifying the outrage a little bit.

[Deuce]

26 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Yeah but I mean you see constant outrage about dog killing practices in say China, but in reality that’s no worse than what happens here. It’s just some people’s line stops at dogs, and they wouldn’t eat them. Like if you eat meat what’s wrong with eating dogs? 
 

The thing is though those practices are ubiquitous, I don’t know many companies that don’t make clothes in sweat shops, probably next to zero. So I wouldn’t discount their view if they happened to own some Nike. Maybe they got them second hand. But either way all clothing is likely produced that way. Martin Shikreli took the fall for all pharma companies. Not that I like the guy, but you get what I’m saying.

 

I just think these arguments boil down to the “yet you participate in a society” trope.

You can’t escape some things, that’s the world we live in, most things are shitty, stuff we enjoy doing. If you don’t engage in any of that for like moral purity you likely won’t be able to do a single thing. 

To add to this, I’d say it’s also possible for supporters to lament the fact that *the club itself* is not spared from the moral balancing act we have to do with so many things in our daily lives. To feel like you now have to say, “My club is associated with a brutal, authoritarian regime, which sucks but which I accept as the price of doing business.” And what a shame that is. Some of you literally could not care less, and that’s totally fine. I get it. But don’t ever gaslight your fellow fans by acting like that’s not true.
 

It’s a shame to have to equivocate about yet another thing in life, particularly one as meaningful as this club. You can always buy a different brand of shoe; you can’t just pick a new club to follow.

[Flip]

2 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said:

you can’t just pick a new club to follow.

 

Mike begs to differ. 

[Mike]

1 hour ago, InspectorCoarse said:

 

 

Is this what I think it is?

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, Flip said:

 

Mike begs to differ. 

 

 

FNAR FNAR! GUFFAW.