Pilko Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:28, Optimistic Nut said: Tbf there were doubters, then there were kneejerk posts like that. Expand Not so sure it was, he'd been in for months, we'd still only won once, didn't look miles better for it and he was still picking knackers like Clark. One shot on target at home versus a crap Watford team and a limp late equaliser. Obviously, benefit of hindsight, the massive corner turn was only a few weeks away, but it looked bleak at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaztoon Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Funny how ffp doesn't stop made up rumours ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) On 04/05/2023 at 16:33, Dokko said: Guess you always supported Joelinton & Murphy, even Almiron. Not a bad word said. Expand Not even close to being similar scenarios. Joelinton's improvement was unprecedented, though he had shown glimpses at Hoffenheim under a competent coach. Murphy's role this season has bafflingly good, again unprecedented. Despite his scoring run this season I still don't rate Almiron that much tbh. Mainly because of Howe these improvements had been made. But those players had been at the club from summer 2019, 2017 and January 2019 respectively, plenty of time to have made judgements on them. Howe then only had 10 games and it was mid way through January. Improvements could be seen and it was clear that we needed signings to implement what he was trying to do. Low and behold, that's exactly what happened. Getting rid for Benitez then would've been mental. Edited May 4, 2023 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I believe fitness is the answer we were all looking for. Under Steve Bruce our squad was chronically unfit, it took Howe two months to rectify that. Add in a few basic tactics, a couple of brilliant signings and we were good to go. A few on those mentioned the "eye test" being good. I.e, it looked as though they had improved, even if results hadn't. Well done those people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:40, Pilko said: Not so sure it was, he'd been in for months, we'd still only won once, didn't look miles better for it and he was still picking knackers like Clark. One shot on target at home versus a crap Watford team and a limp late equaliser. Obviously, benefit of hindsight, the massive corner turn was only a few weeks away, but it looked bleak at the time. Expand Clark played the 3-3 v Brentford (Howe's first game), was benched for Arsenal, then back in for Norwich. He only started 1 other game after that. There'll always be a crossover period where it takes a while to see who's good and shit. Almost identical situation to Rafa taking 1-2 games too long to drop Taylor for Lascelles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Fitness, tactics, belief, coaching and a club finally not in constant turmoil battling the owner, battling relegation, or battling itself. ALL of that created better environment for our players. It was then finally up to the players themselves to sort their heads out and perform on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 There are some on here who have a history of going off the deep end about everything. Pilko is not one I would put into that category at all. He was measured and talking a lot of sense when some of the weirdos on here were talking abouit how Benitez was done and was going to relegate us back in 2017-18. There are others on here who would doom merchant over potential sponsors. It's like their version of a German fetish with just a little less shit to clean off the chest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I wasn't sold on him, I remember being underwhelmed at the time as I was pretty annoyed we didn't end up with Emery. Hey ho. Don't want anyone else now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:40, HaydnNUFC said: Not even close to being similar scenarios. Joelinton's improvement was unprecedented, though he had shown glimpses at Hoffenheim under a competent coach. Murphy's role this season has bafflingly good, again unprecedented. Despite his scoring run this season I still don't rate Almiron that much tbh. But those players had been at the club from 2020, 2017 and 2019 respectively, plenty of time to have made judgements on them. Howe then only had 10 games and it was mid way through January. Improvements could be seen and it was clear that we needed signings to implement what he was trying to do. Low and behold, that's exactly what happened. Getting rid for Benitez then would've been mental. Expand Everything is written off as unprecedented. Let's spin back to that time. 1 win in 10, lost to Cambridge at home, think the 15th was the Watford draw, which was a sickening blow. I'm not debating whether these were reactionary posts, course they were, but they were mainly valid. Just as all the clamour for him now is reactionary, just its now positive, and most of the time, way over the top. But who cares, that's football, that's emotion. It wasn't working and due to Bruce & Ashley we had very little time to get it right. It was stay up at all costs. All Costs. What was unprecedented was the turn around, you'd probably pinpoint it with Shelvey at Leeds. Had that not happened he could have went another 5 games without a win, and we could have been doing a rebuild job from the Championship. If you saw progress in those first 10 games and predicted we'd by 3rd in the lague with 5 games to go, then you're either mint as fuck, or a liar. I couldn't care either way, but you can only judge on what you see, and what we saw then was a million miles away from what we see now, just like many of the players everyone griefed over the years, hence why its a valid comparison, especially since its down to Howe (in most part) that they've turned it around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 It's my natural reaction to ignore a thread if I'm finding it's contents unpleasant, that's why I'm never in the Saudi human right thread. The fact that I couldn't find a post by me in 28 pages tells it's own story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) Swear there must have been people in the old relegation-o-meter thread still rating our chances of survival at a 5 when we were mathematically safe. Edited May 4, 2023 by Conjo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:52, STM said: It's my natural reaction to ignore a thread if I'm finding it's contents unpleasant, that's why I'm never in the Saudi human right thread. The fact that I couldn't find a post by me in 28 pages tells it's own story. Expand The universe thread in GC for me. Scares the shit out of me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I was upset we didn't get Emery and slghtly underwhelmed that Howe was the #2, but then very excited about him really building something special here. By early Jan 2022 I was getting nervous but hopeful signings would save us; mid Jan I was convinced he would be sacked because he just could not turn the shit-show around and I blamed all of our awful players mostly. Then Leeds happened and I was hyped because the entire mentality shifted and the momentum changed. Happy I was wrong, but never stopped rooting for him - I just felt our horrendous previous manager and lack of investment had us in a freefall that nobody could stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:51, Dokko said: Everything is written off as unprecedented. Let's spin back to that time. 1 win in 10, lost to Cambridge at home, think the 15th was the Watford draw, which was a sickening blow. I'm not debating whether these were reactionary posts, course they were, but they were mainly valid. Just as all the clamour for him now is reactionary, just its now positive, and most of the time, way over the top. But who cares, that's football, that's emotion. It wasn't working and due to Bruce & Ashley we had very little time to get it right. It was stay up at all costs. All Costs. What was unprecedented was the turn around, you'd probably pinpoint it with Shelvey at Leeds. Had that not happened he could have went another 5 games without a win, and we could have been doing a rebuild job from the Championship. If you saw progress in those first 10 games and predicted we'd by 3rd in the lague with 5 games to go, then you're either mint as fuck, or a liar. I couldn't care either way, but you can only judge on what you see, and what we saw then was a million miles away from what we see now, just like many of the players everyone griefed over the years, hence why its a valid comparison, especially since its down to Howe (in most part) that they've turned it around. Expand The bold here, I always maintained at the time (I've spoilered posts of mine from back then to prove it) that we'd improved tactically and physcially but were still lacking quality due to years of Ashley neglect. Especially in defence. A few refereeing decisions were also screwing us over. I also posted before that Leeds game that I'd have taken a point from it, we'd have been 3 points from safety with a game in hand and a better goal difference than 17th with Everton (h) coming up after the transfer window had shut and the players have near 2 weeks of warm weather training. Reveal hidden contents On 15/01/2022 at 20:19, HaydnNUFC said: Shit result and shit performance tbh from both the playing and managing staff. First half we were better despite not creating anything clear cut. Second half we got the goal...then decided to sit off. With our defensive record. That's on Howe imo, I am still behind him and still like him but that's on him for me. That second half was pathetic. We have a gargantuan task on our hands. I'm not going to go 'ohhh we're 100% certain to go down' but it's looking a tall order without at least 3 or 4 new signings coming in. Expand On 16/01/2022 at 03:33, HaydnNUFC said: Neglect since January 2017 is rearing its ugly head. Relegation has been on the cards for ages and runs like the one we're on haven't been rare; 4 wins in 24 in 2017-18, 4 wins in 22 and no wins in the first 10 whilst losing all the home games in that 10 in 2018-19, 4 clean sheets at SJP since June 2020. I was saying pre takeover that any other manager than Bruce would have us away from a relegation battle as we don't have that bad of a squad; more than happy to hold my hands up and say I was wrong. This squad is terrible. No balance, severe lack of quality and defensively inept. Should Howe be doing better? Probably. 4 of his 10 games have been against Man U, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal to give him some slack and individual errors have been costing us; Darlow v Brentford, Clark v Norwich, the concession of that bollocks penalty at Leicester, Shelvey v Liverpool Dubravka v Cambridge, could go on. Now you could counter this by saying that Howe continues to pick those who make the errors but do we have anyone else? The midfield options are shit, the CB options are shit. What's alarming me mind is we seem to have gone backwards offensively whilst still being dross defensively. Against Brentford we were superb going forward, likewise against Burnley in the 2nd half and against Man Utd. To muster 1 shot on target at home to a Watford side who are yet to keep a clean sheet this season however is tbh, a joke. Probably needs to rethink this 4-3-3 until we can sign a midfielder and at least 1 CB. Lastly I knew that the shadow of Benitez would loom large on here. People need to move on, the ship has sailed and he has failed at his 2 jobs since leaving us, churning out those garbage results with an Everton side far better than ours. In addition to that he's ostracised Rodriguez and Digne whilst continuing to play a vastly underperforming Rondon. I'm going to reserve judgement on Howe until the end of February to see where we are in the league, how the squad looks and if we've improved. Even still, he's probably well suited to bringing us back up if we were to go down. Expand On 16/01/2022 at 06:01, HaydnNUFC said: He should be, and he has gotten more out of them in his time here than Bruce was able to get this season. Not saying much like, given that Bruce was practically winging it. I've said a few times now that he's improved us tactically and its individual errors and shit refereeing that's been costing us. The last 2 games now though against Watford and Cambridge have worried me and we seem to be going backwards. Both tactically and offensively, while the defensive issues are still there to be seen. Questions need to be asked, he isn't infallible but I really do resent the clamour for a Benitez return. Expand On 16/01/2022 at 14:50, HaydnNUFC said: What's worried me is you have been able to see what he's trying to do in games aside from the latest two. We seem to have gone backwards since the break after Man Utd. Small sample size but enough to cause enough worry to make me think we're almost certainly going down unless we can make 3+ top signings. Expand On 16/01/2022 at 15:05, HaydnNUFC said: ^ Still the case for me now. If we don't make 3 or more top signings for the positions we need the pressure will increase. Pay the money and get it done. Expand No one could've foreseen this season, no less than I. I thought we'd be around 7th, 6th, given the summer window and that we'd been in top 4 form since that Leeds game. But I thought at the time and I still think now that sacking Howe post Watford and replacing him with a just sacked Benitez was a lifting idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 17:01, HaydnNUFC said: The bold here, I always maintained at the time (I've spoilered posts of mine from back then to prove it) that we'd improved tactically and physcially but were still lacking quality due to years of Ashley neglect. Especially in defence. A few refereeing decisions were also screwing us over. I also posted before that Leeds game that I'd have taken a point from it, we'd have been 3 points from safety with a game in hand and a better goal difference than 17th with Everton (h) coming up after the transfer window had shut and the players have near 2 weeks of warm weather training. Reveal hidden contents No one could've foreseen this season, no less than I. I thought we'd be around 7th, 6th, given the summer window and that we'd been in top 4 form since that Leeds game. But I thought at the time and I still think now that sacking Howe post Watford and replacing him with a just sacked Benitez was a lifting idea. Expand TBF you're a level headed former kid, always have been and put a lot of us older folk to shame. Posting straight after a match, sometimes full of drink, is never the best idea. Not even saying that's the case, even for myself, but emotions were coming out one way or another. I remember a lot of criticism aimed at us fans for 'allowing' the Saudi takeover, then ridicule for Emery turning us down and then Howe being our 2nd choice. Even our signings laughed at. So all that shit for 1 win in 10, it was harder than just being shit and accepting relegation with Bruce & Ashley, in fact welcoming it down to the hatred we had for our own club. Christ. Dark fucking times. Anyway, you kept your head more than most. Fair play, though pulling up posts (not aimed at you) from that time and beating people over the head with it is a twats trick, especially as he's had nothing but full support from everyone since only a few games after that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Must admit that I was neutral but I wasn't aware of how he'd used his time after leaving Bournemouth to learn and improve. Trippier says that Eddie spent a period at AC Milan while he was there and that they had spent a lot of time together. He travelled to learn from different coaches and I really admire him for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 15:41, Geordie Ahmed said: Actually, wasn't in this thread but the worst post back in January 2022 was this one Expand Its @Beth... The guy's off his rocker man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) I could never be arsed to start going through old posts but there were some crazy takes at the time. I'll always take umbrage at the idea the team was performing as bad as under Bruce with no indication of progression. If it was Mclaren-like and showed no progression by the end of the season I would've been asking questions but you could pretty quickly see the way he was trying to go even if it didn't produce results. In the same way it did with Rafa, albeit it took a bit longer, it was going to take time to wash the stink off. Edited May 4, 2023 by wormy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I genuinely don't know why people always bring up "i always believed in him!" or the opposite. He's fucking mint. One of the best in the league, in europe and in world football since he took us over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I barely post in this thread anymore as what is there to say? He’s a phenomenal manager. Not only are we having the best season since I was a kid in terms of results but I don’t think I’ve enjoyed football by us as much, apart from the Keegan years part 1. We’re so solid that I don’t fear for us in any matches, we carve teams up and our football is likely only going to get better. Can’t wait for him to win a trophy with us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Hands in the air I was concerned about his defensive record, I wasn't a fan of the 3-4-3 he sometimes used at bournemouth and concerned he wasn't tactically sophisticated to play a modern high press. (Having said all that that isn't to say I wasn't willing to give him a chance, I absolutely was) I was completely, utterly wrong and very glad to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 16:18, HaydnNUFC said: Reading back my posts from then and seeing I never turned on him and more or less what I thought should happen in regards to signings ended up happening. Expand I remember me and you defending him at the time, as I distinctly remember every game we lost being positive in some way, and he wasn't getting the rub of the green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandy Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 03/05/2023 at 11:06, Rich said: I'm not sure there's a non-NUFC player/ex-player I've ever liked more than Ian Wright, mind. Proper chad. Expand If there is one player I'd have liked to see in a B&W shirt it's Wrighty. He'd have been loved up here, and I think it would have been reciprocated. He's always been complimentary about us, from my memory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 17:28, gbandit said: I barely post in this thread anymore as what is there to say? He’s a phenomenal manager. Not only are we having the best season since I was a kid in terms of results but I don’t think I’ve enjoyed football by us as much, apart from the Keegan years part 1. We’re so solid that I don’t fear for us in any matches, we carve teams up and our football is likely only going to get better. Can’t wait for him to win a trophy with us Expand Well, usually. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMike Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 17:52, brummie said: Well, usually. ;-) Expand Fair play, you fucking ate our lunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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