Kid Icarus Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Context is everything as well. Let's say the second half of this season is shite, much more people will be gutted and have the exact opposite review of the season as a whole than if we started off shite then had that first half of the season we've just had as the second half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, 54 said: It's nothing to do with any of that, when we're having a really good season, people find it tiresome when at the first sign of any sort of hardship, people jump on here with a "I told you so" attitude, and try and act superior. That said a forum is going to have a lot of different opinions, if you can't handle people biting back with their own views then it's not a place for you. This place isn't like RTG, it isnt an echo chamber of people with the same thoughts, slowly wanking eachother off in a self congratulatory manner. But what is not valid about saying we played like shit today? That doesn’t mean we’re saying the season isn’t great! We’re saying today was bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, 54 said: But on the flip side to that, they have a business plan, which probably says that getting top four isn't a priority this season, and that we're way ahead of schedule, so are willing to accept the hit for long term gain. That's the decision they had to make when the offer came in for Shelvey, and they rightly stuck to their guns imo. If we're well ahead of the plan why not try and stay well ahead of the plan? I don't think many are saying Shelvey shouldn't be sold, it was that he wasn't replaced. It feels like a complete unnecessary gamble that we've such a good opportunity for a cup and strong league finish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: The "you can't criticise anything" craic is just as shite and boring. It's nigh on always 2 sides talking past each other, about other people, to people who think what they're saying is directed at them anyway. I disagree. You can put together a well thought out post and someone will reply ‘do you think you know better than the board? They know more than you.’ That is the extent of their response. 11 minutes ago, 54 said: It's not a "dreadfully poor decision", far from it, we've got the exact same midfield as we did during the first half of the season, the midfield has got us to where we are, sometimes you have to take a hit for the greater good Personally I'd much rather us spend £50m in the summer for someone that we know will fit our system and that we have scouted thoroughly, then spend £40m now on someone that we don't know 100% about, and could be a risk. I also believe should trust the people who have much more expertise then us, have got pretty much everything they have done so far absolutely spot on, especially in the transfer front and stop bitching at the first sign of anything regards "poor form". We're 4th in the league in February and in our first cup final in over 20 years, but that isn't good enough apparently. On 1st January 2023, you thought selling Shelvey and bringing in no other central midfielder would be a good idea because we have the 4 CMs playing every week? Nobody doubts the leadership has done a great job. That doesn’t make them exempt from criticism. FSG have done wonders at Liverpool but they’ve clearly made errors. It’s ok to say that they’ve made mistakes. Naby Keita was a poor signing. They are also guilty of neglecting short-term squad needs by waiting too long for their ideal targets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Theregulars said: But what is not valid about saying we played like shit today? That doesn’t mean we’re saying the season isn’t great! We’re saying today was bollocks. I think most people acknowledge we played shit today? Don't think anyone is disputing that, it's just some people realise over the course of season you're going to get poor runs of form and poor games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) I think the likely context around the Shelvey deal always needs to be considered as to why he left when he did and why we didnt replace him, which is always ignored. Shelvey was very seemingly offered a much better contract from Forest days before the end of the window and asked to go. At that stage we could have said No, but that maybe meant Shelvey being out of contract at the end of the year and us letting him go. But because of his service and our new nature we agreed to let him go, and we weren't able to bring anyone in in a few days obviously. I mean this isnt concrete but Im fairly sure thats how it played out, so beating the club with this no Shelvey replacement stick is a bit hard to accept. Edited February 12, 2023 by Super Duper Branko Strupar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 We've needed a midfielder anyway with or without Shelvey. We needed one in the summer too We've played our 4 centre mids in pretty much every league and cup game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 If we get centre midfield injuries, we'll have to play 4-2-3-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, joeyt said: We've needed a midfielder anyway with or without Shelvey. We needed one in the summer too We've played our 4 centre mids in pretty much every league and cup game. We do and did, I agree. Its more just specifically the Shelvey argument that I feel doesnt hold much water. We'd be in the same position today if he'd stayed or if he was replaced imo. If he'd stayed he wouldnt be fit, if we'd replaced him they wouldnt be starting. Could argue they likely wouldnt have even came off the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said: We do and did, I agree. Its more just specifically the Shelvey argument that I feel doesnt hold much water. We'd be in the same position today if he'd stayed or if he was replaced imo. If he'd stayed he wouldnt be fit, if we'd replaced him they wouldnt be starting. Could argue they likely wouldnt have even came off the bench. Yep. The Shelvey sale caught them off guard. There is Elliot Anderson, as well. He's looked a bit sharper in his last couple of performances, today included imo. Miggy played there at the tail end of last season too. And Ritchie! It's not ideal, obviously, but the point is we don't actually have to run Longstaff etc's legs into stumps in order to put out a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 20 minutes ago, joeyt said: If we're well ahead of the plan why not try and stay well ahead of the plan? I don't think many are saying Shelvey shouldn't be sold, it was that he wasn't replaced. It feels like a complete unnecessary gamble that we've such a good opportunity for a cup and strong league finish I agree with your point that he needed to be "replaced" as in we should have signed a quality midfielder. He's still injured so wouldn't have had any effect on today's game. And he's that much of a crock he possibly would't have an influence on any of the games. Or Nottingham Forest games. I wish Shelvey was "replaced" with a top midfielder but he wasn't. Simple fact is we got rid of a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 54 said: I think most people acknowledge we played shit today? Don't think anyone is disputing that, it's just some people realise over the course of season you're going to get poor runs of form and poor games. I've been thinking about the January/February slogs under Keegan in 92/93 and 93/94 Anybody over-reacting amidst either of those (didn't experience anybody doing so personally) amidst our best seasons in years was rewarded in the end by looking quite the reactionary. Its fine to criticise drawing at Luton/Southend, losing at Wimbledon and at home to Southampton provided within the context of those games not questioning the manager, players, owners on a wider scale. Were going places now like we were then. You cant win every game. Think people are forgetting because its been so long since we were good that it was almost a given for even good teams to have a sticky patch at some point. Exceptional title winning sides apart. There's only a dip at all because were good. Edited February 11, 2023 by Wolfcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Yep. The Shelvey sale caught them off guard. There is Elliot Anderson, as well. He's looked a bit sharper in his last couple of performances, today included imo. Miggy played there at the tail end of last season too. And Ritchie! It's not ideal, obviously, but the point is we don't actually have to run Longstaff etc's legs into stumps in order to put out a team. The underlying point is that we needed a Cm before Shelvey was sold. Shelvey was not sold for footballing reasons. If he stayed, he was highly likely to trigger his contract extension. An extra £4m the club didn’t want to pay. Anderson is arguably the worst part of this. He’s not ready for the PL. He needs a loan down a division or 2 playing regularly. Instead he’s here and will only get good minutes in an injury crisis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Just now, The College Dropout said: An extra £4m the club didn’t want to pay. This is not true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Just now, Super Duper Branko Strupar said: This is not true. The fee we received was minimal. Shelvey earned a reported £70k per week. So let’s call it £4m per year. That’s a club decision to save that money. I’m certain Howe would’ve preferred to keep (until the summer at least) him if he wasn’t going to be replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) You're without any evidence arguing he was let go because we didnt want to pay for him (4m, as you say. Doesnt matter). But that's clearly not the reason he went, we were more than happy to pay the money, Howe didnt want him to go tells you that. Its not the club didnt want to pay, it's Shelvey wanted to go. I'd wager qujite highly the club were very willing to pay, but we agreed his request to leave. It's that simple. Our desire to pay has no bearing. Forest offered him higher wages and an additional year. Edited February 12, 2023 by Super Duper Branko Strupar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I disagree. Clubs block moves for players that they want all the time. if you buy it - good for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: The underlying point is that we needed a Cm before Shelvey was sold. To guarantee Champions League qualification, probably. But, hamstrung by FFP and the inability to find value in January, they gambled on proceeding with what we had, because what we had stood a good chance of qualifying on its own. Then the Shelvey sale happened unexpectedly and we tried to sign one of our summer targets (I assume) in Gallagher, but it didn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: I disagree. Clubs block moves for players that they want all the time. if you buy it - good for you. "Buy it". Give awa. It's more than clear what happened, it's been explained, there's no smoke and mirrors. To suggest otherwise is just to give yourself a reason to be angry over something that doesnt exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I’m not without evidence. The club got a negligible fee for him. He only had 6 months on his contract. We lacked in his position already and knew we were likely to not replace him. But we let him go anyway. The manager wanted to keep him. What’s the motive to sell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHoob Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Pleased to see him get his send off today. Weird to see him getting emotional actually, usually such a cool customer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Just now, The College Dropout said: I’m not without evidence. The club got a negligible fee for him. He only had 6 months on his contract. We lacked in his position already and knew we were likely to not replace him. But we let him go anyway. The manager wanted to keep him. What’s the motive to sell? The fact he asked to go. I dont know what's so hard to understand, Im sorry but I really dont. We granted his request to leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbee909 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Yeah, unhappy players always do well don't they. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Shelvey: Forest have offered me this contract and I'd like to move. Howe: I would rather you stayed tbh, we'd like you to stay. Shelvey: Thanks, but I'd like to move. Howe: Okay. Not hard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 A half fit Shelvey would have single handedly won us the game today. I told you it was a bad move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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