Eddie Howe

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

It's not the Twitter knackers I'm worried about when it comes to Howe's longevity, it's that we don't know how trigger happy our board is.

 

We need to prepare ourselves for momentum to slow down this season - I'm absolutely convinced that we'll see sequences of poorer results because the squad was at its absolute limits last season and we've only recruited one more experienced PL player; meanwhile there's a European campaign to navigate. 

 

I just pray that the decision-makers aren't too hasty whenever the first sticky patch arrives. It will happen at some point, it happens to absolutely everyone. Just some teams have much longer gaps between them. 

 

This is a good point.

 

First season, we did go 1 win in 9. Then last season we had a run of 1 win in 7 and 1 win in 8, but all three of these runs were padded out with quite a few draws, plus expectations weren't as high.

 

[TRon]

I was surprised to find out it's his 11th loss to Liverpool running. Perhaps I shouldn't be given he was in charge of Bournemouth or maybe Burnley for a lot of those, but there is a step up in class when you are playing the very best teams. Until we can boast the same depth of quality in players though, his teams are always going to be second favourites against the like of Man City or Liverpool so comparisons are not really fair.

[brummie]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s not even a questionable patch really, it’s just incredibly hard fixtures all coming at the same time.  
 

The fixture list is massively underrated in football. 

 

 

 

 

I'll be honest - the result the first day of the season probably set an unrealistic expectation which was an extenuating factor given it was followed by the hardest game of the season and one of the next hardest, which ended with a freak set of circumstances.

 

It's like us - we got a 5-1 pounding on day one of the season - that was very, very bad, but it's one game and not reflective of where we are. We then followed it by scoring 12 goals and conceding 1 in winning the next three games. Just like the first day of the season, that is not going to be reflective of the rest of the season either, because the opposition across however-many-games is going to be better than the matches played in that sequence.

 

You can form any opinion you like by zooming in on a small set of matches - positive ones or negative ones - but you still can't really draw much from them because they're a tiny sample.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by brummie

[KingArthur]

2 hours ago, brummie said:

It's interesting seeing how quickly - and wrongly - a peak is treated as 'the norm' or 'the minimum'.

 

Don't get me wrong, I reckon this could be the same of any other club with a manager in the same position, so it's not you lot, but some of the stuff on here - as viewed by an outsider - is absolutely fucking mindblowing.

 

What he achieved last year was an absolute miracle, yeah you spent money, but not enough to outright buy fourth place, you got it mostly because of excellent coaching. To then be even looking remotely at him like some people are on here after three games is absolutely insane.

 

It's like a misplaced sense of entitlement has kicked in - you are quite obviously a project in progress, you've not just won something and set an elevated 'norm' for yourselves, thus far you've achieved nothing concrete, but the fact is, it's in very recent memory that you were stinking the league out under Captain Steak Bakes.

 

If you zoom out a bit from where you are now, ie the here and now of matches happening this last week or two, and look at the bigger picture, it is still insanely impressive.

 

All teams (except you know who) have questionable patches, it's not that they happen, it's how they react to them that matters.

Sadly this is very true for many football fans. People seem to expect, not hope or dream, for us to end up in top 4. To regularly make it to top4 requires top coaching and resources. We have 1/2. Other teams also have top coaching, but 6 of them also have more resources. Last year was a off year for Chelsea and Spurs for example, but they will be up there again, maybe not this year but next one at least.

 

If we make it to top6 and through the UCL group stage, it has been a great season. That means we have beaten some top clubs and are progressing. People seem to forget reality and base their expectations solely on last seasons performance.

 

It is same for Liverpool fans, who keep saying "Liverpool deserve to be in the title race" after 2-3 great seasons. They are way behind City or even Arsenal, but because they won it few years ago, now they deserve to be there...

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by KingArthur

[Lish007]

32 minutes ago, brummie said:

 

I'll be honest - the result the first day of the season probably set an unrealistic expectation which was an extenuating factor given it was followed by the hardest game of the season and one of the next hardest, which ended with a freak set of circumstances.

 

It's like us - we got a 5-1 pounding on day one of the season - that was very, very bad, but it's one game and not reflective of where we are. We then followed it by scoring 12 goals and conceding 1 in winning the next three games. Just like the first day of the season, that is not going to be reflective of the rest of the season either, because the opposition across however-many-games is going to be better than the matches played in that sequence.

 

You can form any opinion you like by zooming in on a small set of matches - positive ones or negative ones - but you still can't really draw much from them because they're a tiny sample.

 

 

 

Exactly this. 

 

It's not as if the match between Newcastle and Aston villa means that AV are a bad team - far from it. I would say for us, it was more important to beat AV than it was Liverpool, because I believe we are gunning for similar places in the league to them. 

 

If people had called for Emery's head after our match, we would call them mad.. he's done wonders for that team and has got them competing to where they should be. He got it wrong that day but he's one of the only managers in the league, along with Howe, that will learn from that mistake. I'm sure he will be chomping at the bit to beat us at their place and I wouldn't be surprised if they did. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Liverpool at Anfield because now Howe will not rest until his mistakes and ours are corrected. 

 

A little humility goes a long way. Probably Liverpool could do with some too and I hope a team dishes it out to them very soon. 

[Begbie]

7 hours ago, McDog said:

 

 

Dude, he took a team that had not only been flushed down the shitter and facing almost certain relegation and got them into the CL. Yes, money played a part as did the backroom staff additions but he led this team on the pitch to all that success.

 

 

He's going to be given the benefit of the doubt for a long time by me.

I didnt read the comment as negative as you did. It all depends what you put in the words "good" and "great" managers.

I read it like Howe is a good manager who just had a great season with us on all aspects, he is in the making of a great manager but not there yet. ie he is a good manager. If he continues the progress and win things with us or the next club he manage he might be considered a great manager.

 

In my opinion there are 4 categories: Shit/terrible, average, good, and great managers.

 

We had a bad game against Man City, we normally are able to upset teams but this game we just couldnt get it to work, and a really bad result against Liverpool. People will react especially with our history against Liverpool, and the way Klopp has been talking about us. I do hope Howe have learned something and that we bounce back the next game. Also I do hope that Howe becomes a great manager and take home some trophies!

[Scoot]

1 hour ago, andycap said:

If we lose to brighton which is a possibility, I can see the twitter knackers calling for howes head. Which is laughable when you think about it. 

 

Yeah I totally agree. The knackers are on standby this week but if we lose to Brighton on Saturday they'll be out in force.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, jack j said:

It's robson all over again i tell you

They’re not comparable. 
 

For a start, Robson should have gone - only much earlier than he eventually did.  Howe deserves nothing but time at the moment.  

[Kid Icarus]

For me there was very little wrong with the subs tbh. 

 

Gordon was tiring, Isak was ineffective for some reason, and both Bruno and Tonali were starting to misplace passes - so choosing Tonali as the player to come off out of those 2 is justifiable. Wilson makes sense, Barnes definitely makes sense if you're looking for someone to get in behind, and Longstaff makes sense if you want someone making the 3rd run. 

 

It's the approach to the match after the sending off that I can't get my head around really. I get that we didn't want to go hell for leather with the threat of Liverpool on the break, but we very noticably reined it in, slowed things down, and attacked more speculatively rather than with real purpose after VVD went off, which seemed counterintuitive. Obviously we had chances and I've read some people saying it was not taking those chances when they thought it was an ominous sign, which makes complete sense. For me though it was when we were just knocking it about between defence and midfield without any real purpose, the sort of thing when you're controlling the game at 3 nil, that it felt off for me.

 

It's why I don't think there's any real use in pointing fingers at Botman, Bruno, Burn, or the subs, because the approach wasn't right and it was obvious that at some point Liverpool would create a chance or chances, no matter what, which is why we needed to kill the game rather than control it. Jota and Nunez coming on just heightened that inevitability further. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[The Prophet]

There was definetly a sense of not knowing whether to protect the lead or kill off the game. Howe said after the game he wanted the second goal, so experience and in-game nous probably factored in too.

[andycap]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

They’re not comparable. 
 

For a start, Robson should have gone - only much earlier than he eventually did.  Howe deserves nothing but time at the moment.  

So you really believe that lad? We went to shit after he left. 

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, andycap said:

So you really believe that lad? We went to shit after he left. 

 

I'm not going to get into the Robson debate, but is that not more because his replacement was Graeme Souness?

[Sempiternal]

Robson’s time was up, but the replacement fucked us. 

[mighty__mag]

2 hours ago, brummie said:

It's interesting seeing how quickly - and wrongly - a peak is treated as 'the norm' or 'the minimum'.

 

Don't get me wrong, I reckon this could be the same of any other club with a manager in the same position, so it's not you lot, but some of the stuff on here - as viewed by an outsider - is absolutely fucking mindblowing.

 

What he achieved last year was an absolute miracle, yeah you spent money, but not enough to outright buy fourth place, you got it mostly because of excellent coaching. To then be even looking remotely at him like some people are on here after three games is absolutely insane.

 

It's like a misplaced sense of entitlement has kicked in - you are quite obviously a project in progress, you've not just won something and set an elevated 'norm' for yourselves, thus far you've achieved nothing concrete, but the fact is, it's in very recent memory that you were stinking the league out under Captain Steak Bakes.

 

If you zoom out a bit from where you are now, ie the here and now of matches happening this last week or two, and look at the bigger picture, it is still insanely impressive.

 

All teams (except you know who) have questionable patches, it's not that they happen, it's how they react to them that matters.

 

Thanks for bringing a sensible outside view to the party. ?? 

 

19th in the league to 4th, a cup final after decades. 

 

Two losses to arguebly the two strongest Premier league sides in the last decade, we only lost five games last season three of them to the sides who have handed our losses this season. 

 

It's a total overreaction. 

 

"We only want a club that tries"

 

What we got so far, was a club, owners, manager, flags, feel good factor, a chance to dream again, we got so much more, 10 birthdays and 10 Christmas rolled into one.

 

For some absolute arseholes it's never,  ever enough,

 

Wake the fuck up! If you are the type out there who think it's now top four every season, then you are those fans who got Newcastle labeled the deluded geordies back in the 90s, yes I do believe eventually we will become a force if the owners deliver on all their promises, but, its not granted.

 

These lads, Eddie, the board all knew, all admitted we over acheived, it's a luxury right now, we're very lucky, there's a long, long way to go, loads of work to put in, and it's progress, you could never ever right off Eddie Howe unless you're an absolute fucking moron.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by mighty__mag

[Abacus]

In some ways, you can understand the over reaction. It's a game we shouldn't have lost, and people get pissed off and need someone or something to blame when they're angry. It's genuine at the time but temporary.

 

The subs have been criticised, but you can understand them in the moment due to players tiring etc. Nor was it some tactical masterclass by Klopp - it was a classic flukey suckerpunch by an individual error and an unlucky deflection.

 

We dominated that game and with better finishing / luck would have steamrollered them. We did seem to step back a bit, but I doubt that was down to Howe - more the players thinking it was won. You can tell that because of Klopp's reaction in calling it a miracle and something that he's not seen in 1000 games, or whatever.

 

Likewise, Pep was absolutely delighted with that 1-0 at the Etihad - we didn't start well but by the end they were hanging on a bit and he knew it.

 

To say Howe was outthought comprehensively is hindsight based on the result in my opinion. We've played two of the best teams on the league, should have won one and taken a point from the other.

 

That we didn't was fine margins and if you look at the quality of the 3 squads, we're still punching well above our weight with both performances.

 

It's a few tweaks that are needed, not anything drastic - and Howe will be poring over both of those games looking for what they should be. Best since Keegan, and he might become better.

[Maineblue]

42 minutes ago, Abacus said:

In some ways, you can understand the over reaction. It's a game we shouldn't have lost, and people get pissed off and need someone or something to blame when they're angry. It's genuine at the time but temporary.

 

The subs have been criticised, but you can understand them in the moment due to players tiring etc. Nor was it some tactical masterclass by Klopp - it was a classic flukey suckerpunch by an individual error and an unlucky deflection.

 

We dominated that game and with better finishing / luck would have steamrollered them. We did seem to step back a bit, but I doubt that was down to Howe - more the players thinking it was won. You can tell that because of Klopp's reaction in calling it a miracle and something that he's not seen in 1000 games, or whatever.

 

Likewise, Pep was absolutely delighted with that 1-0 at the Etihad - we didn't start well but by the end they were hanging on a bit and he knew it.

 

To say Howe was outthought comprehensively is hindsight based on the result in my opinion. We've played two of the best teams on the league, should have won one and taken a point from the other.

 

That we didn't was fine margins and if you look at the quality of the 3 squads, we're still punching well above our weight with both performances.

 

It's a few tweaks that are needed, not anything drastic - and Howe will be poring over both of those games looking for what they should be. Best since Keegan, and he might become better.

Good post except for one thing “City weren’t hanging on in the end and Pep wasn’t worried”  you guys had one tame effort shot on target in the whole game, you’re a bloody good side but you didn’t turn up at the Etihad.

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 01:33, Vinny Green Balls said:

The context that a number of people and myself have pointed out about the relative strengths of the squads. It is pretty much the most important context needed. Fine having a peaceful argument but you are just being willfully obtuse here by ignoring that massive elephant in the room, and it's making your argument that much flimsier.

I categorically disagree that it's the most important context needed. The most important contexts, for my money, are the context of how the team plays and the significant investment in the playing squad. Despite you phrasing it as fact, it's an opinion, and we differ. 

 

When you watch us regularly and in detail, you see a team with no fear who outrun, outmuscle, outduel etc others. My question is, therefore, why does that disappear (in whole or in part) in some high-pressure matches / matches against the better sides? Clearly, against squads which are more expensive than ours and longer in the tooth as established teams than ours, we can perform this way (Manchester United at home, Spurs home and away, Manchester City home last year) - so what I don't understand is twhy, in certain matches, that identity / culture / ethos etc goes missing. In my opinion, it went missing in the last two matches under instruction from the manager to some extent (we were so reserved and timid in both games). It went missing in the cup final because, in my view, the occasion was too big for the manage and squad. 

 

So, politely, calling people "willfully obtuse" and context-ignorant because they disagree with you is cheap and lazy in my view. I don't think Eddie Howe is faultless. I think he has done an excellent job but, when he does something or presides over or has some degree of responsibility for a situation in which the outcome is so obviously undesirable, is it not fair to ask a question or make a criticism? You come across as quite didactic: "if you don't agree with me then you're ignorant", essentially. 

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 01:02, NEEJ said:

I'll counter what criticism I've sent his way by saying his dismantling of Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, and Brighton at home are up there with the finest displays I've ever seen from a Newcastle side (albeit all at home). Therefore I more or less disagree with @Theregulars

I agree, those were all tremendous performances. But there have been just as many nervy, unconvincing our outright poor displayers in similar high-pressure matches or matches against better sides: cup final, Brighton away, Leeds away, Leicester home, Manchester City away this and last season, Liverpool home this and last season. Maybe that's just football, but in my view there's enough in there to question whether the manager is yet at a point where he is comfortable and reliable in these situations. I don't think he is, and that's a legitimate view based on the evidence in my opinion. I fully hope he can get there and I'll give him a very long time to do it. 

 

I would say - not in response to @NEEJ - that it does feel sometimes on this forum that divergence of opinion isn't allowed or tolerated. It feels somehow like I have blasphemed by criticising him. I love him and the team; I can still criticise them. I love my girlfriend and dog; I still criticise them when they're twats or do stupid shit. 

 

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 08:57, Wallsendmag said:

 

 

Tbf as NUFC manager (we were relegation fodder up until last season lets not forget) for the time being at least he's always going to have a "mixed" record against the top sides. In fact most of the other top managers have a mixed record against the other top teams.

 

However he's still managed to beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Brighton, West Ham in his relatively short time here, all likely to be top 8 this season. Add to those an impressive draw v Man City last season and his record isn't actually too bad. For whatever reason Klopp just has his number.

No, it's not bad, but to my mind there have now been enough poor / timid performances in matches of that nature that I think it's fair to ask the question. That is genuinely all.

[KaKa]

16 hours ago, relámpago blanco said:

Ridiculous some of the nonsense in here. We would have been relegated without him and the squad last season had no business qualifying for the CL.

 

Sickening how quickly this has been dismissed.

 

Some fans genuinely deserved Mike Ashley.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think there could well be an element of mentality or culture that needs to improve, and I believe it will. It's natural since we aren't historically a top team. 

 

That said, it's all very well saying we should press and go all-out against Man City, when doing that could actually be worse for your chances. 

 

Against Liverpool though, I would've liked to have seen a Spurs-style blitzkrieg. We weren't far off it initially TBF, we just had a lot of possession after the red card and struggled when they sat deep.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think there could well be an element of mentality or culture that needs to improve, and I believe it will. It's natural since we aren't historically a top team. 

 

That said, it's all very well saying we should press and go all-out against Man City, when doing that could actually be worse for your chances. 

 

Against Liverpool though, I would've liked to have seen a Spurs-style blitzkrieg. We weren't far off it initially TBF, we just had a lot of possession after the red card and struggled when they sat deep.

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of fans are completely delusional, thinking we should just all out press Man City and Liverpool like we did Spurs last year. It's an embarrassing take.

 

Their forward lines would annihilate us completely with their pace and ability on the ball. Especially as we don't have a ton of speed in our back line.

 

Howe is clearly trying to come up with a plan to combat these types of teams, and I wish people would just let him do so, because he is infinitely more capable than these dummies.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yeah, I don’t disagree. 

[Kid Icarus]

It again comes back to player quality. The best players aren't just the best, they're experienced in high pressure situations. It's what made Liverpool a huge threat last season when we were chasing top 4 - despite them being shit they'd been there and done that and were battle hardened. They then went on a huge winning run than could have been enough to pip us to the top 4 had Howe and the team slipped up under that pressure.

 

And on top of that we were also undoubtedly better than Man United last season imo and we were better in the cup final, but experience counts.

 

Look at this comparison before the final. This is just the players, it's not hard to see which team has the advantage mentally in this situation, regardless of who might be better when there's less pressure on.

 

Spoiler

Newcastle United

Copa del Rey wins x 1

Copa do Brasil, Copa Sudamericana, Coupe de la Ligue and Olympics wins x1 (all Bruno)

MLS Cup wins x 1

Champion League runner up x2

Euro final runner up x 1

 

Man United

Champions League wins x9 (Varane and Casemiro basically)

Europa League wins x4

World Cup wins x2

Copa America wins x2

FA Cup wins x2

League Cup wins x2

Copa Del Rey x4

Super cup wins x7

Club World Cup wins x7

Sopacopa del Espana wins x6

Community Shield wins x5

KNVP Cup wins x1

Cruyff Shield wins x1

Cup of Champion wins x1

Copa Sudamericana wins x1

Taca del Portugal wins x1

Tara del Liga wins x1

DFB Pokal wins x1

DFB Supercup wins x1

World Cup runner up x1

Euros Final runner up x3

Europa League runner up x6

Copa America runner up x1

 

If Howe ever has a team with the experience that teams like Man United's had (on top of the quality we already have) and is still not cutting it against the teams that do have that experience, that's when a think a point can be reasonably made about his quality as a manager.

 

Until then I don't think there's a point to be made at all, not only are we punching above our weight, we're doing it with players who don't yet have the experience of what it takes mentally to get the job done. For a lot of teams that's a huge hurdle to get over on their way to success. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[KaKa]

23 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

No, it's not bad, but to my mind there have now been enough poor / timid performances in matches of that nature that I think it's fair to ask the question. That is genuinely all.

 

How long have Pep and Klopp been in their jobs? And how long have they been building those teams and working with those players? Players and squads that are still significantly better than ours by the way.

 

Honestly, you really need to calm down. You like so many others cannot handle the success we had last season and it has completely made you lot loopy.