Eddie Howe

[mighty__mag]

As if the owners would remove Eddie at this stage, I don't think for one minute Staveley would even be thinking it, I'm sure there's probably dialogue between the manager and the hierarchy, they'll be in total support, unless it was a total mess and we were involved in relegation then they could get itchy feet.

Amanda comes over as a very kind and loving person, she's definitely invested in Howe and will likely back him and support him where needed. They're not daft, they're fully aware we over acheived last season, also obviously aware we lost two key new signings nearly all season, have a shit load of injuries, and have had our hands tied with FFP.

 

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

True, though it also wasn’t much of a squad game back then.

 

It was closer to that in BR’s time, of course.

 

I do get a wee bit annoyed at the ‘think of where we were under Ashley’ crack though, as if the club is working in the same circumstances just with different personalities.  It’s as irritating as the ‘that was a Steve Bruce performance’ when we play badly.  I’ve not seen a Howe NUFC side ever look as lost as any Bruce side did in an average match.  

 

And Hooper as well. Imagine if we'd had to rely on him for 3/4s of a season. The circumstances have changed but I think the reason it's valid is because it wasn't even long ago, so it's not like we have to think back to 10 years ago for the Ashley era, and, crucially imo, we still have loads of the same players.

 

When we were battering PSG it was all Schär, Joelinton, Almiron Longstaff played under Bruce! Our for dips and it completely swings the other way.

 

 

Edited January 1 by Kid Icarus

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Call it naivety but we were a cunt hair from the champs league knockouts and the league cup semis doing it the naive way. Game of fine margins. We’ve been on the wrong side of it for a while now. Fundamentally the single biggest issue we have is with the overall quality of the squad. Isak top scores in the league for Liverpool.  

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Good post. Seemingly only having a Plan A, only willing to play 16 lads and attacking 4 comps. How was this meant to work with an injury crisis?

 

I hope it's just shit luck and we did have other plans that we weren't able to enact due to the severe injury situation. Otherwise we're toast. Basically what Ponsaelius said above.

[Smal]

Think we have to try a 4-2–3-1 soon (or perhaps even a back 5 like we ended the game with tonight) and try to keep two midfielders back to protect the back line.

 

Without the speed of Willock and Joelinton in midfield and transition, and the added issue of fatigue to exacerbate the lack of pace further, I think it’s clear we simply don’t have the recovery run ability in midfield to play the midfield structure we have been using in this run. It’s been so, so easy to get straight at our defence and run through the midfield - even against weaker sides. I think Miley looks more like a #10 and it would take some of the defensive responsibility from him too, which he’s understandably struggled with recently.

[HaydnNUFC]

6 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

There is a load of factors, but it's the Howe thread and what he's been able to control or change is where I'm discussing. It's very hard to bring all into it in one (especially on a phone, after a defeat when the thread is moving at fast pace) but to counter your statement it's more than just injuries to blame. There's the root cause, the mitigation and recovery and response which for me has all been off.  

 

This month (Jan) is more on the club than Howe. They've seen him and his squad struggle, it's time to match their ambition and talk of being the best with some serious season saving action in the market. You'll be pleased to know my focus will be on them pulling their weight as they are the only ones who can help him out and believe me, I really hope they do and this just a big blip we talk about for years and not actually the end of Howe.

 

This season yeah, but our success last season was down to far more than just us getting lucky with injuries. 

 

And I agree. Though I do worry if the player we go for is the kind of player we usually get linked with in the press. We need to find more than 1 way to play the game, our 1 way relies on outrageous levels of fitness and exertion and its fucked if a large number of players are out like we have now and its the main reason we've looked so poor for so long. We need players with individual technical quality on the ball to keep the ball and/or play between lines and unlock teams. 

[Wandy]

3 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I'm happy to nip it in the bud, like (I was a while ago but you continued being abusive which makes it difficult to leave alone ). You've outlined your view and I've explained why I said what I said; I'm not being deliberately adversarial at this point. 

 

You could have just said that my wording (disgrace) was a bit OTT but you took it further by getting personal. Sorry, but I'm not having that.

 

Agree to nip it in the bud now though. We move on. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

And Hooper as well. Imagine if we'd had to rely on him for 3/4s of a season. The circumstances have changed but I think the reason it's valid is because it wasn't even long ago, so it's not like we have to think back to 10 years ago for the Ashley era, and, crucially imo, we still have loads of the same players.

 

When we were battering PSG it was all Schär, Joelinton, Almiron Longstaff played under Bruce! Our for dips and it completely swings the other way.

 

 

 

Christ, poor old Mike Hooper  I heard he’d become a bouncer in Durham.  He’ll have been good at it, given his previous job often saw him taking abuse off drunks …

[Wullie]

One of our players that we're all like "Jesus this long term injury is a disaster" is Jacob Murphy. 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Smal said:

Think we have to try a 4-2–3-1 soon (or perhaps even a back 5 like we ended the game with tonight) and try to keep two midfielders back to protect the back line.

 

Without the speed of Willock and Joelinton in midfield and transition, and the added issue of fatigue to exacerbate the lack of pace further, I think it’s clear we simply don’t have the recovery run ability in midfield to play the midfield structure we have been using in this run. It’s been so, so easy to get straight at our defence and run through the midfield - even against weaker sides. I think Miley looks more like a #10 and it would take some of the defensive responsibility from him too, which he’s understandably struggled with recently.

I don’t think he’s going 4231. 
 

But I agree with your post. Second goal again Bruno is struggling to run back. At our best he gets back, or Willock gets back etc.  The scary thing is that it happens game after game. 

[Heron]

10 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

More rotation - Hall, Ritchie & Tino earlier in the season

 

A plan of attack other than the right wing overlap

 

Attempt something different when teams aren't pressing the shit out of us. Be more direct, shoot more often, I dunno, I'm not a football manager but doing the same thing over and over can't be the answer.

 

A lot of frustration comes from seemingly only having a plan A. You can't do that in the PL, losing at home to Forest, away to Bournemouth and Luton and expect absolutely zero critique.

 

FWIW I want him to be given time to sort it out.

At which point would you have rotated those players and who for?

 

I for one think we need a 'Plan B' which is essentially a 'control'style of play but without an array of technically able players that's difficult to apply, especially if it becomes apparent mid-season that you need to owing to an overwhelming amount of injuries.

[Stifler]

This season the minimum target would have been European football, that would have been without what we did last season or not. The club and owners have a 5 year plan, this would have been where the club needed to be this year. If we had won a cup then you maybe forgiven for not achieving it. Right now we are below that target and in the backpeddle in the fight for the European slots.

If we lose on Saturday then bang goes any half chance of a cup victory, and another route to Europe. We also lose a game against our rivals who when we were taken over, were 2 divisions apart from.

It was alright losing that game for Ashley, this ownership group will not accept it. There is no leeway for Howe in losing the derby if we are not achieving what we need too elsewhere. For us now, that’s European football, under Ashley that was 17th, hence why losing the derby was no big deal for Pardew, Carver, and McClaren.

 

As others have said, we are not going through just a bad spell. We have only won 1 away league game all season. We have lost 2 recent games to relegation candidates, and face a month playing against teams going for the title.

Out it down to injuries/fatigue all you like, but our performances have been way off, even in games that we have won. Also when you are manager and come out in press conferences and say playing so many games isn’t an excuse, then all you are doing is taking that off the table, be it you agree with him or not.

I still think injuries are a big factor in our situation, but the press and possibly the ownership group are not going to take what Howe says and allow him the leeway he’s talking himself out of.

 

At the end of the day, if we lose on Saturday then our season is effectively over in the first week of January, and I don’t see that sitting well with the owners, and with fans.

 

No one is expecting a top 4 finish, but I think everyone is expecting to finish in the European places.

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We’re so bad under pressure on the ball. Shockingly so, in fact. We’re the epitome of the British flat track bully away from home. In fairness to Howe you can only do so much to make Sean Longstaff a technically efficient player in tight spaces - that ship sailed a while ago. I felt bad for Miley tonight. He was a deer in headlights from the first whistle on and off the ball. But who can blame him, he’s 17. 
 

Same with the counterattacking issue. Look at the quality of Liverpool’s compared to ours. Unlike us they have 2 ways to win a game. But they’ve got players in midfield and out wide who make the right decisions and execute consistently. 

 

I felt more shocked by Bruno tbh. He was constantly giving the ball away to players who were quicker, he was left for dead by Sbozlai for one of the goals. I don't have such high expectations of Miley or Longstaff, but Bruno looked really bad tonight.

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 minute ago, Stifler said:

This season the minimum target would have been European football, that would have been without what we did last season or not. The club and owners have a 5 year plan, this would have been where the club needed to be this year. If we had won a cup then you maybe forgiven for not achieving it. Right now we are below that target and in the backpeddle in the fight for the European slots.

If we lose on Saturday then bang goes any half chance of a cup victory, and another route to Europe. We also lose a game against our rivals who when we were taken over, were 2 divisions apart from.

It was alright losing that game for Ashley, this ownership group will not accept it. There is no leeway for Howe in losing the derby if we are not achieving what we need too elsewhere. For us now, that’s European football, under Ashley that was 17th, hence why losing the derby was no big deal for Pardew, Carver, and McClaren.

 

As others have said, we are not going through just a bad spell. We have only won 1 away league game all season. We have lost 2 recent games to relegation candidates, and face a month playing against teams going for the title.

Out it down to injuries/fatigue all you like, but our performances have been way off, even in games that we have won. Also when you are manager and come out in press conferences and say playing so many games isn’t an excuse, then all you are doing is taking that off the table, be it you agree with him or not.

I still think injuries are a big factor in our situation, but the press and possibly the ownership group are not going to take what Howe says and allow him the leeway he’s talking himself out of.

 

At the end of the day, if we lose on Saturday then our season is effectively over in the first week of January, and I don’t see that sitting well with the owners, and with fans.

 

No one is expecting a top 4 finish, but I think everyone is expecting to finish in the European places.

 

You've said the target is a European spot so how on earth is the season over if we lose on Saturday? 

[Heron]

19 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Howe has been unlucky with injuries and suspensions, there is no doubt. We banked in the summer on adding depth at fullback, making sure we had four hard working wingers who we could run into the ground, and a midfielder who could cover both #8 as well as Bruno's role (in theory). Clearly the idea was to maximise the resources, facilitated in part by actually selling our one wild card, to double down on our style of play and make sure we had the depth to push it across multiple competitions. Ultimately we have tried to reinforce what worked last year - rather than look to enhance/augment what we've got and give us something different to win games. Whether that was signing a number 10/wide attacker who can play between the lines, a designated defensive midfielder to give us more control in transition, another striker who could offer more out of possession than Wilson etc etc - these were options that were available to us and we chose not to go for.

 

I think it's not unreasonable to say at this point that it has backfired. This is partly through sheer bad luck in the case of Tonali and Barnes in particular. But our inability to change it up or find other ways to win games has made this season's crash far worse and also I'm afraid made Howe look increasingly naive. We've ran players into the ground and made injuries worse, which has increasingly made our fundsmental style of play ineffective, which has now increasingly made players devoid of confidence. Confidence that has been rattled further by crashing out of the cups and leaving the season effectively over by January. It is a vicious spiral and I think, mitigating factors accepted, Howe has to take blame and be questioned for it. Both for his input in transfer decisions (we know he will have had some) and how we have adapted this season to very different circumstances.

 

 

 

Great post. Don't entirely agree with it all but think it's very well put across and reasonable to suggest.

[OverThere]

The midfield is the main problem. Giving the ball away in advanced positions and then lack of recovery. Either we have to go more conservative in the 4-3-3 or change to a 4-2-3-1 or 5-3-2. Something has to give, he can't just ignore what's happening.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

At which point would you have rotated those players and who for?

 

I for one think we need a 'Plan B' which is essentially a 'control'style of play but without an array of technically able players that's difficult to apply, especially if it becomes apparent mid-season that you need to owing to an overwhelming amount of injuries.

 

I wouldn't have played Trippier Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday etc

 

Same with Gordon, who basically had no pre-season. Guy needed a rest at the start of December and here he is playing another 97 minutes in probably the highest intensity position on the pitch.

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I felt more shocked by Bruno tbh. He was constantly giving the ball away to players who were quicker, he was left for dead by Sbozlai for one of the goals. I don't have such high expectations of Miley or Longstaff, but Bruno looked really bad tonight.

He’s knackered. Pretty much played 11 games in 35 days.  

[brummie]

35 minutes ago, LiquidAK said:

 

The not training has only been in December. Villa are playing part-timers and not Mbappe. Howe's "decisions" have been limited due to the freak injuries, which have meant he can't rotate. Can see the argument to just go with the young players anyway, he obviously has his reasons for not doing that, but can see your point.

 

 

Take your point re the opposition, but they're still tough matches which involve a lot of travelling and too many games in not enough time.

 

Anyway, that's not the point i was going to make. Point was - we did rotate quite a lot in Europe, and also in the Carabou Cup - and trust me, even with more squad depth, it's not as easy as just swapping a load of lads out and sticking others in.

 

We lost at Legia Warsaw, pushed it a bit closer than I'd like in other European ties, and also got knocked out of the Carabou Cup by Everton (before they'd hit any form Everton, not the improved version).

 

It's really fucking difficult to rotate and maintain shape and form, even if you do have the bodies to do it, so if you're undergoing an injury crisis, it'll be much worse.

[Smal]

 

these are *extremely* bad numbers, like

 

 

Edited January 1 by Smal

[Heron]

6 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

I wouldn't have played Trippier Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday etc

 

Same with Gordon, who basically had no pre-season. Guy needed a rest at the start of December and here he is playing another 97 minutes in probably the highest intensity position on the pitch.

With Gordon though - do you think he would have had this amount of game time with a fit Harvey Barnes/Willock/Joelinton who've all operated in similar/same positions?

 

With reference to Trippier I am absolutely inclined to agree. However, his recent blip has made it abundantly clear to me that we are somewhat dependant on his influence alone. When Trippier isn't at it, we aren't at it for results. So that'd be my concern.

 

I don't mean to come across a dick but I just feel it's all easy to say in retrospect and after bad results. I don't think anyone at the time was suggesting we should do the same back then. I could be wrong though...

 

 

Edited January 1 by Heron

[Jaqen]

7 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

You've said the target is a European spot so how on earth is the season over if we lose on Saturday? 

 

2 points off 7th with 18 games left to play = season over. Some braindead stuff being posted in here tonight, like 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

With Gordon though. Do you think he would have had this amount of game time with a fit Harvey Barnes/ Willock/Joelinton who'veall operated in similar/same positions?

 

With reference to Trippier I am absolutely inclined to agree. However, his recent blip has made it abundantly clear to me that we are somewhat dependant on his influence alone. When Trippier isn't at it, we aren't at it for results. So that'd be my concern.

If you have injuries - does that mean you do not rotate at all ?

 

 

You play what you have in the squad to keep your best players sharp. 

[Ronson333]

30 minutes ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Howe has to sort out some of our underlying tactical issues mind, primarily in organisation and shape. All season long, I’ve felt our midfield has been so easy to bypass with a simple ball through.

Tbh first time it happened was against Villa last year when that Buendia was getting all sorts of space. Feel other teams are just exposing the same weakness and we haven’t plugged the gap yet.

[TRC]

He needs to show something vs the mackems. Get outplayed and I can't forgive that.