Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

They barely played much  before we were out of the relegation zone iirc. Trippier had the absolutely important goal, but keep in mind that we got him for pennies.

 

Fact is that he had us out of the relegation zone with only Dan Burn and Chris Wood being the new guys who played regularly. 
 

We were in such a bad state that relegation was expected by most on here even toward the end of January. I think people are starting to use a slight amount of revisionist history to underplay Howe’s achievement. 

 

Keep in mind - he only joins because of the takeover. Ditto Bruno G and his 5 goals.

 

The January window wasn't perfect and we missed out on a lot of our top targets. But you spend £130m on a PL squad with at least  2-3 PL quality players already there. You should stay up.

 

He did v. well to have us 11th. But to finish 18th or below - considering the investment in January - would be a gigantic failure of QPR/Chelsea proportions.

[Tsunami]

The League Cup has been devalued in the last 10-15 years because of TV and money. You never used to see weakened sides.

 

We need to start winning things as opposed to qualifying for things. There’s a huge difference, last February showed that. We lost a final more or less on belief. 

[gbandit]

Just now, Tsunami said:

The League Cup has been devalued in the last 10-15 years because of TV and money. You never used to see weakened sides.

 

We need to start winning things as opposed to qualifying for things. There’s a huge difference, last February showed that. We lost a final more or less on belief. 

Arsenal always put out kids in the early 00s but I can’t remember what the other top teams did 

[cubaricho]

6 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

The League Cup has been devalued in the last 10-15 years because of TV and money. You never used to see weakened sides.

 

We need to start winning things as opposed to qualifying for things. There’s a huge difference, last February showed that. We lost a final more or less on belief. 

Calling it something different every few years devalued the hell out of it, which obviously is tied to the money part of that equation. 

[McDog]

Just now, WideopenMag said:

Always, dont see the point in being a football fan or even existing as a club if you dont try and win somthing. Our trophy drought is ridiculous for a club of our size with some of the teams we've had man. Got to dare to dream, haven't you? This cup is very winnable. It would be massive for our fan base and our team. Imagine Bruno and Joelinton etc celebrating with a trophy man 😂 the feel good factor would elevate us up a level.

Tbh amother factor is really wanting to win a trophy and share the experience with my dad, we joke it probably won't happen before he dies. Every year that goes on it seems less and less likely. 

 

 

That I totally get, like I said my perspective and yours are likely different. Hell, doing well in the league and winning a trophy are not mutually exclusive. Beat Chelsea tomorrow. 

[Checko]

I'm sure you used to see weakened sides, at least in the early rounds. As you get closer to the final or against tougher opponents teams get stronger.

 

While of course there's good arguments for resting players, and I think Howe will rest a few, is there an argument going strong could actually help in the league:

 

1.  Do we want that mentality of thinking 'oh this competition's not that important we can put that on the backburner.'

Winning is a habit, and you want to try and keep the habit going.

 

2. Momentum - we've had a bit of a bad run, been knocked out of Europe. League's tough this year, many injuries. But we just got a win and that makes things feel a bit better. If we were to go and get a win at Chelsea, suddenly it's 2 wins in a row and we've got a cup semi-final to look forward to. Season's looking exciting again (thinking for the players as well here).

 

If we get beat then it's knocked out of Europe, won against 10 man Fulham, then knocked out of the league cup straight after, having doing so well in it so far. It would be a bit deflating.

 

& for all you can think about whether the League Cup isn't that important relatively, if we were to beat Man C, Man U, Chelsea and (probably) Liverpool to win it... even with some weakened teams along the way, it wouldn't feel like a small prize won.

 

Ultimately, I bet fatigue is a lot easier to manage when you're winning.

[McDog]

@Checko - your point #2 makes sense to me. I'd be all for going for everything normally but this injury crisis is nuts. Anyway, as someone pointed out earlier, it is completely out of our hands. Eddie will pick who Eddie will pick. I have the day off tomorrow so will be watching the Mags beat those blue bastards.

[The Prophet]

Definetly seeing a lot more of this kind of filth this season. We're improving in possession.

[54]

Just now, The Prophet said:

Definetly seeing a lot more of this kind of filth this season. We're improving in possession.

It still shits me up every time it happens too

[timeEd32]

Aside from the obvious reasons it'd be nice to win a trophy, I'd love the security it would presumably give Eddie. It'd be nice to not be reading or talking about his job with every dip in form.

[Conjo]

I normally don't really care about the league cup. I find it silly to have two domestic cups on top of the league and would ideally like to see it scrapped and rather increase the prize pool and have a CL spot up for grabs for the FA cup instead.

 

That being said, any cup, if we win it, which means we've beat Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and two of either Fulham, Everton, Liverpool and West Ham, is a fucking great achievement. Without checking, I bet there won't be many league cup or FA cup winners the last 20+ years who's had a tougher cup win than that.

[TheBrownBottle]

9 hours ago, McDog said:

 

 

We all know how important the League Cup is in the hierarchy of football. Not all that high. Look, I completely understand your position, you want silverware, I get it. Get the foundation built to create a team that always challenges in every competition.

It’s higher than finishing 4th in terms of hierarchy.  I can remember League Cup winners far easier than I remember who finished 4th

[TheBrownBottle]

5 hours ago, Conjo said:

I normally don't really care about the league cup. I find it silly to have two domestic cups on top of the league and would ideally like to see it scrapped and rather increase the prize pool and have a CL spot up for grabs for the FA cup instead.

 

That being said, any cup, if we win it, which means we've beat Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and two of either Fulham, Everton, Liverpool and West Ham, is a fucking great achievement. Without checking, I bet there won't be many league cup or FA cup winners the last 20+ years who's had a tougher cup win than that.

Having fewer opportunities to actually win things so that the accountants are kept sweet doesn’t seem like a good idea at all to me - it sounds like exactly the sort of thinking which has damaged the FA Cup and League Cup and UEFA Cup, and saw the Cup Winners Cup abolished.

 

I’ve no sympathy with those who sneer at competitions (the actual point of competitive sport) - and we’re definitely in no position to do it.  I didn’t dream of Newcastle finishing 4th as a kid - which is when most find their love of the game - I dreamed of seeing us win at Wembley.  No bairn fantasising about playing for Newcastle is playing for CL qualification in their head. 

[Optimistic Nut]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It’s higher than finishing 4th in terms of hierarchy.  I can remember League Cup winners far easier than I remember who finished 4th

 

Other than Swansea, for about 20 years it's mainly been the same 4 clubs since Boro. (Chelsea, Man U, Man C and Liverpool).

 

Break the top 4 and you're more than likely going to win it once the squad improves etc. Won't be long. 

 

Swansea, Spurs and Birmingham the only 3 clubs other than those 4 in 20 seasons. Two mid-table Championship clubs. Would be interesting to see where Spurs fans rank their win amongst the top 4 finishes, title challenges and CL runs/Final?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Optimistic Nut

[Lush Vlad]

I know it’s probably because people are looking bigger picture. And that we should be challenging on all fronts in the next say 5-10 years in regards to sliverware. 
 

But I do find it really odd. That after years of not winning anything. Anyone can be so blasé about another potential cup final and also finally getting that monkey off our back and winning a trophy. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Other than Swansea, for about 20 years it's mainly been the same 4 clubs since Boro. (Chelsea, Man U, Man C and Liverpool).

 

Break the top 4 and you're more than likely going to win it once the squad improves etc. Won't be long. 

Spurs have won one trophy in 30 years despite multiple CL qualifications - and still having a much higher income.  And that LC win 2008 came before they were qualifying for the CL - multiple qualifications has done nowt for their trophy cabinet.

 

I do think folks are far too confident about the inevitability of trophy wins.  It certainly isn’t something that we should just leave for another day. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

9 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Keep in mind - he only joins because of the takeover. Ditto Bruno G and his 5 goals.

 

The January window wasn't perfect and we missed out on a lot of our top targets. But you spend £130m on a PL squad with at least  2-3 PL quality players already there. You should stay up.

 

He did v. well to have us 11th. But to finish 18th or below - considering the investment in January - would be a gigantic failure of QPR/Chelsea proportions.

Without the takeover, we probably would have been stuck with Bruce until it was too late anyway.

 

I think people have forgotten how grim it was in January 2022. I'm not convinced that many managers would have gotten us out of that horrible mess as easily as Eddie Howe did. Of course the spending can't be dismissed (even though 15% of the outlay was on Chris fucking Wood), but getting some of those players, who were utterly hopeless a few months before, to look like PL quality was not far from being a miracle. It was just as impressive as 4th last year for me.

[Decky]

We should definitely go stronger tonight than Saturday, if we’re forced to rotate majorly for the next few games. Remember the cup final last year? That’s what this means and we can’t just put a weakened team out and say ah well if we go out. 
 

The top four chase is massively important as well but we’re playing two teams who are struggling. Although Luton have been impressive against the bigger sides this season they still have only 2 wins and 9 points, Forest aren’t a whole pile better.

[TheBrownBottle]

Steve Bruce managed only three games fewer than Eddie Howe.  And yes, I think it isn’t a completely fair comparison re games won due to the difference in investment and attractiveness of the club.

 

But given had the same number of games as Howe, why were we still watching Joelinton and Almiron being shite, Longstaff being a glorified water carrier, and Fabian Schar being sat in the reserves with the manager picking Ciaran Clark ahead of him?

[Conjo]

50 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Having fewer opportunities to actually win things so that the accountants are kept sweet doesn’t seem like a good idea at all to me - it sounds like exactly the sort of thinking which has damaged the FA Cup and League Cup and UEFA Cup, and saw the Cup Winners Cup abolished.

 

I’ve no sympathy with those who sneer at competitions (the actual point of competitive sport) - and we’re definitely in no position to do it.  I didn’t dream of Newcastle finishing 4th as a kid - which is when most find their love of the game - I dreamed of seeing us win at Wembley.  No bairn fantasising about playing for Newcastle is playing for CL qualification in their head. 

 

No other countries in Europe at least has more than one cup. It's just stupid. Can't change my mind on that. Why not make another cup or two then so more teams have a chance of winning something?

 

Nah, have one cup, make it more attractive for the teams (CL spot for grabs) and increase the prize pool (preferably so more goes to lower league sides) and I think the overall quality of the entertainment goes up.

[Menace]

Woke up. Reading Bruce and Howe comparisons. Back to bed I go.

[TheBrownBottle]

14 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

No other countries in Europe at least has more than one cup. It's just stupid. Can't change my mind on that. Why not make another cup or two then so more teams have a chance of winning something?

 

Nah, have one cup, make it more attractive for the teams (CL spot for grabs) and increase the prize pool (preferably so more goes to lower league sides) and I think the overall quality of the entertainment goes up.

Well, no other European countries except France, Portugal …

[TheBrownBottle]

PS who gives a shite if other countries have it or not.  It’s of zero consequence. 

[Cronky]

10 hours ago, WideopenMag said:

Tbh amother factor is really wanting to win a trophy and share the experience with my dad, we joke it probably won't happen before he dies. Every year that goes on it seems less and less likely. 

 

I can relate to this, I was 12 when we last won a trophy, and even that was a competition where the best teams didn't enter. The League Cup is a notch above that.

 

It would be great to win something before I pop my clogs (not imminent, by the way), but this current journey is the best of times and I'm enjoying it whatever.  We now have a manager with the capability of using the passion behind the club without being burdened by its hopes and expectations. He keeps his judgement on firm ground, and creates a kind of protective ring around the squad which keeps them focused. 

 

If we lose, it won't be through a lack of composure, or fear. This is a team that delivers its best.

[Conjo]

39 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Well, no other European countries except France, Portugal …

 

The second cup (equivalent to league cup) in France was discontinued in 2020. Edit: According to Wiki to prevent fixture congenstion. I'll stand corrected on Portugal.

 

37 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

PS who gives a shite if other countries have it or not.  It’s of zero consequence. 

 

It's still stupid and redundant, in my subjective opinion. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Conjo