Eddie Howe

[gbandit]

Staveley is clearly a very shrewd operator. She seems incredibly determined to succeed. That coupled with Howe’s qualities and the bankroll we have means that we’re on a path to  almost guaranteed success long term. The one good thing about being a Newcastle fan is that when things are going well the speed of improvement is supercharged 

[WillDanceForChocolate]

Cheers for all the kind words, glad there was some stuff of interest in there.

 

One thing I didn't mention is to not be fooled by the facade, Howe can also be extremely ruthless. Not in an unpleasant way but if he thinks it's time to move on from you there will be no sentiment holding his decision back. Pitman scored the goals that got us up from L2 and L1 and also scored 14 in the Championship winning season but was released on a free at the end of the season as he didn't think he had the pace for the Premier League. Ok, the free bit was a thank you and sentiment for all the goals but it still felt harsh at the time. The same with Yann Kermorgant, who I described before as transformative for us. Howe had decided the main difference we needed to bring to the team in the Premier League was pace which was the opposite of Yann's game. He only got a few minutes as a sub in the Premier League before we let him leave in January. Every successful manager needs that core of steel, and he certainly has that.

 

I guess it would be remiss to not point out some of the places he fell down with us. I just described him as ruthless but there were also occasions where he was too loyal. If he believes in a player he may get more chances than he deserves. There are times when that may pay off, but also times where it doesn't and is frustrating to see an under-performer get chance after chance. See Jordan Ibe as an example. Equally, if a player arrives and doesn't buy into his methods he may not even get a chance. Lee Tomlin being one of those with us.

 

I also think the inability to compete with the top sides got to him. Over the five Premier League seasons we changed from an all out attack, try and outscore the opposition side to a counter attacking one. It felt like it came on the back of some beatings we took. You should have the resources to be able to give them a game where we couldn't so maybe that won't be a problem you face. We had some wonderful one-off results but overall it was a big weakness. Looking at your next three fixtures, they should be really interesting to see if he's come up with a new approach.

[samptime29]

Such a professional and attentive manager. He puts in the work, the players know he puts in the work. Winning games breeds confidence. I can only say Spurs was awful in 2022. 10 wins in 2022 is excellent. 

 

He has done a fantastic job. I find him very likeable. 

[toon25]

Its absolutely clear he leads from the front, like. That sort of work ethic must have been a breath of fresh air compared to the previous regime.

[Kid Icarus]

25 minutes ago, WillDanceForChocolate said:

Cheers for all the kind words, glad there was some stuff of interest in there.

 

One thing I didn't mention is to not be fooled by the facade, Howe can also be extremely ruthless. Not in an unpleasant way but if he thinks it's time to move on from you there will be no sentiment holding his decision back. Pitman scored the goals that got us up from L2 and L1 and also scored 14 in the Championship winning season but was released on a free at the end of the season as he didn't think he had the pace for the Premier League. Ok, the free bit was a thank you and sentiment for all the goals but it still felt harsh at the time. The same with Yann Kermorgant, who I described before as transformative for us. Howe had decided the main difference we needed to bring to the team in the Premier League was pace which was the opposite of Yann's game. He only got a few minutes as a sub in the Premier League before we let him leave in January. Every successful manager needs that core of steel, and he certainly has that.

 

I guess it would be remiss to not point out some of the places he fell down with us. I just described him as ruthless but there were also occasions where he was too loyal. If he believes in a player he may get more chances than he deserves. There are times when that may pay off, but also times where it doesn't and is frustrating to see an under-performer get chance after chance. See Jordan Ibe as an example. Equally, if a player arrives and doesn't buy into his methods he may not even get a chance. Lee Tomlin being one of those with us.

 

I also think the inability to compete with the top sides got to him. Over the five Premier League seasons we changed from an all out attack, try and outscore the opposition side to a counter attacking one. It felt like it came on the back of some beatings we took. You should have the resources to be able to give them a game where we couldn't so maybe that won't be a problem you face. We had some wonderful one-off results but overall it was a big weakness. Looking at your next three fixtures, they should be really interesting to see if he's come up with a new approach.

 

Some great posts, really enjoyed reading them all and getting your insight.

 

Just looking forward, can you think of any players out there that stick out for you as Howe type players? As in the type of player he often signed for Bournemouth, but maybe that next step up again? E.g. I think before his success at West Ham, Jared Bowen would have been a very Eddie Howe type of player. Hope that makes sense.

[WillDanceForChocolate]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Some great posts, really enjoyed reading them all and getting your insight.

 

Just looking forward, can you think of any players out there that stick out for you as Howe type players? As in the type of player he often signed for Bournemouth, but maybe that next step up again? E.g. I think before his success at West Ham, Jared Bowen would have been a very Eddie Howe type of player. Hope that makes sense.

 

I know what you mean but I doubt I can be any help. I know many football fans watch any football they can. I more of the breed that is generally only interested in watching my club and so I rarely see other teams play. I might watch a match here and there if I've nothing on and it pops up on the tv but I would never make a point of it so my knowledge of non-AFCB players is pretty limited.

 

I will say this on transfers. He had our club absolutely sewn up so that it wasn't uncommon that the first time a player was linked was the day he was signing. I imagine that will be a lot harder with you but don't be surprised if a player or two turn up out of the blue and you wonder why you knew nothing about it in advance. That may be less important for you but I think he didn't want teams alerted in advance and trying to muscle in on the deal since we would likely have lost out.

 

Thinking about it, he does like to have players he knows so I wouldn't put it past him to go for Danjuma. Sadly, injured for pretty much the whole relegation season (in his appearances he was mostly unfit but we were desperate), he absolutely ripped the Championship apart last season, moved to Villarreal in the summer and I've heard he has scored a bunch in the Champions League for them. So, with my scant knowledge, if I was going to put money on a player you would sign it would be him. Don't waste your cash though as that's mostly based on ignorance! He is also an example we hadn't been linked with anywhere until he signed.

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, WillDanceForChocolate said:

 

I know what you mean but I doubt I can be any help. I know many football fans watch any football they can. I more of the breed that is generally only interested in watching my club and so I rarely see other teams play. I might watch a match here and there if I've nothing on and it pops up on the tv but I would never make a point of it so my knowledge of non-AFCB players is pretty limited.

 

I will say this on transfers. He had our club absolutely sewn up so that it wasn't uncommon that the first time a player was linked was the day he was signing. I imagine that will be a lot harder with you but don't be surprised if a player or two turn up out of the blue and you wonder why you knew nothing about it in advance. That may be less important for you but I think he didn't want teams alerted in advance and trying to muscle in on the deal since we would likely have lost out.

 

Thinking about it, he does like to have players he knows so I wouldn't put it past him to go for Danjuma. Sadly, injured for pretty much the whole relegation season (in his appearances he was mostly unfit but we were desperate), he absolutely ripped the Championship apart last season, moved to Villarreal in the summer and I've heard he has scored a bunch in the Champions League for them. So, with my scant knowledge, if I was going to put money on a player you would sign it would be him. Don't waste your cash though as that's mostly based on ignorance! He is also an example we hadn't been linked with anywhere until he signed.

Danjuma's a good shout actually! I know what you mean, I go through phases of watching very little football so my knowledge, especially of teams abroad is really limited.

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, WillDanceForChocolate said:

 

I know what you mean but I doubt I can be any help. I know many football fans watch any football they can. I more of the breed that is generally only interested in watching my club and so I rarely see other teams play. I might watch a match here and there if I've nothing on and it pops up on the tv but I would never make a point of it so my knowledge of non-AFCB players is pretty limited.

 

I will say this on transfers. He had our club absolutely sewn up so that it wasn't uncommon that the first time a player was linked was the day he was signing. I imagine that will be a lot harder with you but don't be surprised if a player or two turn up out of the blue and you wonder why you knew nothing about it in advance. That may be less important for you but I think he didn't want teams alerted in advance and trying to muscle in on the deal since we would likely have lost out.

 

Thinking about it, he does like to have players he knows so I wouldn't put it past him to go for Danjuma. Sadly, injured for pretty much the whole relegation season (in his appearances he was mostly unfit but we were desperate), he absolutely ripped the Championship apart last season, moved to Villarreal in the summer and I've heard he has scored a bunch in the Champions League for them. So, with my scant knowledge, if I was going to put money on a player you would sign it would be him. Don't waste your cash though as that's mostly based on ignorance! He is also an example we hadn't been linked with anywhere until he signed.

 

This is all so interesting. Really appreciate it.

 

One more question if you don't mind. Eddie consistently played a 4-4-2 with you, with one striker dropping in deep and one looking to get in behind, and two narrow inverted wingers, with full backs that overlapped aggressively. I really enjoyed how he made it work.

 

He hasn't really been able to setup this way since he joined us due to the lack of personnel and time to really implement it. I think with a full pre season and with a full transfer window over the summer he'll get what he feels he lacks and will return to that setup.

 

Any thoughts on that at all? Do you think it's a system he's quite sold on as his preference, or is that not as set in stone?

[WillDanceForChocolate]

25 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

This is all so interesting. Really appreciate it.

 

One more question if you don't mind. Eddie consistently played a 4-4-2 with you, with one striker dropping in deep and one looking to get in behind, and two narrow inverted wingers, with full backs that overlapped aggressively. I really enjoyed how he made it work.

 

He hasn't really been able to setup this way since he joined us due to the lack of personnel and time to really implement it. I think with a full pre season and with a full transfer window over the summer he'll get what he feels he lacks and will return to that setup.

 

Any thoughts on that at all? Do you think it's a system he's quite sold on as his preference, or is that not as set in stone?

 

This is tricky. There's no doubt for much of his time with us he was wedded to the 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1 to be fairer to him) but that was a legacy of the lower leagues and the squad. He did dabble with some other formations in the Premier League but almost always quickly went back. This was his big challenge. He had a group of players that came up the leagues with him which he knew he could rely on to play in a certain system and deliver results and he couldn't change the whole squad overnight so had to buy players that could work within that framework who may later be adaptable for alternatives. You could see the way he was recruiting. David Brooks, for example, was never a natural fit for that system. Danjuma as well, he's perfect wide left in a front three. I'd say the same goes for Solanke. I don't have any proof of this but I think he was trying to create a new squad that could play a system you see more in the modern game. However, when things were tough he reverted to what he knew worked to get us out of tricky situations. In that relegation season we had five wingers on the books. Brooks, Stanislas and Danjuma were injured virtually the whole season (ignore appearance stats, none of them were fit when they played). This left (on loan) Harry Wilson and Fraser and he had no choice but to play them both. Wilson wasn't at all suited to that role (he was terrible there in fact), another sign he'd maybe been brought in to play something different, and as he himself admitted Fraser stopped trying. I don't care about players not having ability but when you can see with your naked eye a guy isn't trying even though his manager is forced to pick him it really. I'll leave that sentence so I don't descend into profanity.

 

It's hard to know for sure but if we'd have been injury free (or not injury decimated), I think he would have dabbled with a 4-2-3-1. That's what the recruits he brought in feels like he was aiming for, he just never got a chance to give it a proper go. It's a shame goal line tech let us down as the following season would have shown where his ambitions lay, tactically. The rebuild was nearing if not completion then at least readiness to give a proper try.

 

My feeling is he recognises that 4-4-1-1 isn't the way forward at the very top of modern football. That's where you're aiming so building a team to play it wouldn't make sense. And now he has the funds to rebuild a squad in a different image. If I was to be harsh, if he went for his old favourite formation I'd be a little disappointed. I understand the constraints that made him use it so much with us but you have other options.

 

The truth is though, he's not afraid to ignore received wisdom and if he thinks he can get a team challenging for the title with his old formation then he may well go for it.

[Stottie]

Please stick around WillDanceForChocolate! Great insight.

 

It's a shame we have so many Championship era players to replace, because it is likely to limit what can be achieved in the coming transfer window. Ideally, we'd be getting to see just how ruthless Howe can be, with essentially every player aside from Bruno and Trippier in the crosshairs, but that would just rip the heart out of the team and leave us with a group of uber-talented strangers.

 

[KaKa]

26 minutes ago, WillDanceForChocolate said:

 

This is tricky. There's no doubt for much of his time with us he was wedded to the 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1 to be fairer to him) but that was a legacy of the lower leagues and the squad. He did dabble with some other formations in the Premier League but almost always quickly went back. This was his big challenge. He had a group of players that came up the leagues with him which he knew he could rely on to play in a certain system and deliver results and he couldn't change the whole squad overnight so had to buy players that could work within that framework who may later be adaptable for alternatives. You could see the way he was recruiting. David Brooks, for example, was never a natural fit for that system. Danjuma as well, he's perfect wide left in a front three. I'd say the same goes for Solanke. I don't have any proof of this but I think he was trying to create a new squad that could play a system you see more in the modern game. However, when things were tough he reverted to what he knew worked to get us out of tricky situations. In that relegation season we had five wingers on the books. Brooks, Stanislas and Danjuma were injured virtually the whole season (ignore appearance stats, none of them were fit when they played). This left (on loan) Harry Wilson and Fraser and he had no choice but to play them both. Wilson wasn't at all suited to that role (he was terrible there in fact), another sign he'd maybe been brought in to play something different, and as he himself admitted Fraser stopped trying. I don't care about players not having ability but when you can see with your naked eye a guy isn't trying even though his manager is forced to pick him it really. I'll leave that sentence so I don't descend into profanity.

 

It's hard to know for sure but if we'd have been injury free (or not injury decimated), I think he would have dabbled with a 4-2-3-1. That's what the recruits he brought in feels like he was aiming for, he just never got a chance to give it a proper go. It's a shame goal line tech let us down as the following season would have shown where his ambitions lay, tactically. The rebuild was nearing if not completion then at least readiness to give a proper try.

 

My feeling is he recognises that 4-4-1-1 isn't the way forward at the very top of modern football. That's where you're aiming so building a team to play it wouldn't make sense. And now he has the funds to rebuild a squad in a different image. If I was to be harsh, if he went for his old favourite formation I'd be a little disappointed. I understand the constraints that made him use it so much with us but you have other options.

 

The truth is though, he's not afraid to ignore received wisdom and if he thinks he can get a team challenging for the title with his old formation then he may well go for it.

 

Amazing, thanks  

 

Can't wait for the summer to see what direction he ultimately decides to take us having fully evaluated and worked with the current squad now, should be really interesting.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by KaKa

[toon25]

Just now, KaKa said:

 

Amazing, thanks  

 

Can't wait for the summer to see what direction he ultimately decides to take us having fully evaluated the and worked with the current squad now, should be really interesting.

Can't wait for him to work with world class players given what he's been able to do with this squad.

[The College Dropout]

19 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Make it top 8 and we are talking.

Aye. We need to be on the end of the top 6 at least. The best of the rest with West Ham, Leicester, Wolves.

 

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

[number37]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. We need to be on the end of the top 6 at least. The best of the rest with West Ham, Leicester, Wolves.

 

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

I'd be quite upset. 

 

Eddie Howe has us in the top half of the table from only two thirds of a season. With half a dozen good signings in the summer, even if we got thumped in each of our first handful of games, we'd still finish top half. After years of relegations and relegation battles, years of utter shit, and then only being 18 months or 2 years into the takeover - top half is heavenly. 

 

Poch can go away. 

[Manxst]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

Personally, yes. Howe deserves time and patience, given what he’s achieved this season. Who’s to say if Poch could do better? I’m confident that any blip will be temporary. We’re bound to have the occasional bad game or bad result, but in the long run, with the right signings and backing/investment throughout the club, we will only be moving up, and that will be with Howe in charge. 

[The Prophet]

I'd imagine the owners have a rough plan if where they want to be at the end of next season and Howe will probably be judged in line with that.

[Pixelphish]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

 

Yes. Unless it looks like the club is somehow in another relegation battle he deserves the full season come what may.

[The Prophet]

19 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Make it top 8 and we are talking.

 

To be honest, if we miss out on 10th by a point, but we hit say 55 points and we're no where near the relegation battle, that probably represents progress in the league. We're currently transitioning from a team perpetually threatened by relegation to a solid midtable team.

 

That said, a lot depends on the amount of investment in the summer. The owners may want to bypass that stage if they are able to.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I do have some concerns that if we go on an aggressive recruitment drive this summer we are going to have an influx of high quality players and a manager tasked with keeping it all together whilst acheiving on field success. Not sure Howe would be brilliant at that given his relatively low profile. Worse problems to have I know.

 

Howe deserves the opportunity to take the club forward and I'd be disappointed if he wasn't given it. 

[Conjo]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. We need to be on the end of the top 6 at least. The best of the rest with West Ham, Leicester, Wolves.

 

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

 

Impossible to say. It depends a bit on how you define "start" really. It also depends on how we play, not only the results, and how the transfer window goes.

 

If Howe gets good backing in the summer, but we open the season, say 10 first games, Bruce style both in terms of results and performances then I won't be upset. If we lose the first 2-3 matches  and he's sacked I'd be quite upset as he needs to be given time to bed new players into his system. If we're flirting with relegation spots after 5-6 games but we've been playing good football but been let down by individual mistakes and/or poor officiating I'd also want to give Howe more time.

 

Too many scenarios to give a definitive answer, but in general I want Howe to do well, and I hope he gets the opportunity to turn things around if results are below par.

[macphisto]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

To be honest, if we miss out on 10th by a point, but we hit say 55 points and we're no where near the relegation battle, that probably represents progress in the league. We're currently transitioning from a team perpetually threatened by relegation to a solid midtable team.

 

That said, a lot depends on the amount of investment in the summer. The owners may want to bypass that stage if they are able to.

Worth mentioning the the impact of the world cup next season. That could seriously distort the league. Will those teams with few players in Qatar/latter stages of the tournament have a big advantage? A real unknown.

 

 

[sushimonster85]

18 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

I do have some concerns that if we go on an aggressive recruitment drive this summer we are going to have an influx of high quality players and a manager tasked with keeping it all together whilst acheiving on field success. Not sure Howe would be brilliant at that given his relatively low profile. Worse problems to have I know.

 

Howe deserves the opportunity to take the club forward and I'd be disappointed if he wasn't given it. 

 

I know it's mainly due to the delay in getting Ashworth (and subsequently his team) in place, but I do like that it looks like Howe will have a similar role in identifying transfer targets to the one he had in Jan. At least for this next window. I don't think we'll see any real big names, more well scouted and vetted players from across Europe in the style of Bruno. Think the only 'big name' type player could be a LIngard. Maybe a DCL if Everton go down. 

[macphisto]

1 hour ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

I do have some concerns that if we go on an aggressive recruitment drive this summer we are going to have an influx of high quality players and a manager tasked with keeping it all together whilst acheiving on field success. Not sure Howe would be brilliant at that given his relatively low profile. Worse problems to have I know.

 

Howe deserves the opportunity to take the club forward and I'd be disappointed if he wasn't given it. 

That would only be an issue if the owners weren't fully behind Howe or the players had backchannels to the owners, similar to PSG and Chelsea. In our case, I reckon Staveley will be right behind Howe and will not stand for any disruption from the players. I'm also sure new players won't just be Howe's players but ones agreed by a number pf parties within the club so if a signing goes wrong, Howe will not be held solely responsible. 

[Bondedcrown]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. We need to be on the end of the top 6 at least. The best of the rest with West Ham, Leicester, Wolves.

 

Would people be upset if we binned off Howe for Poch early in the season if we don't make the start we hope for?

[The College Dropout]

I say that because I think next season we want solid progress so that in 23/24 we go for the top 4/5. We’ll sign players that we think can go for that while transitioning out Ashley era players and seeing who can make that jump.  I don’t think they’ll be happy being 12/13 come in January. 
 

I look at Hughes to Mancini at City. Rodgers to Klopp at Liverpool.  Even Nuno to Conte at Spurs. All arguably harsh sackings but the leadership has identified and won over a manager proven to go where the club wanted to go and was the right decision. 
 

I genuinely think in 23/24 the owners will want CL places and will want us to have a team and management setup for us to achieve it. 
 

Ashworth seems the patient type. Don’t know about Staveley and PIF though. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by The College Dropout