Newcastle United 0 - 1 Cambridge United (08/01/2022)

[TheGuv]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

Rules changed or summit? Could have sworn the stopoed that a few year ago?

Oh have they? Shows how little football I’ve watched over the last few years because of Ashley 

[Fantail Breeze]

10 minutes ago, snabelkabel said:

So you could theoretically leave a player way offside and try to pass to that player via deflection off an opponent?

 

Where is this new law, all i found was this rule? 😛

 

It’s technically not a deflection because Shelvey intentionally attempts to play for the ball.

 

I don’t think it’s necessarily a new rule, I think it’s the updated guidance/interpretation around phases of play (when VAR came in).

An opponent intentionally playing for the ball and making contact = a new phase of play.

[Danh1]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

Rules changed or summit? Could have sworn the stopoed that a few year ago?

Aye same. Double jeopardy  or something. Pickford giving us that daft penalty in the 3-2 win is where I remember it from. 

[Fantail Breeze]

1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Rules changed or summit? Could have sworn the stopoed that a few year ago?

 

It’s still a red if you foul them without attempting to play the ball.

[Hanshithispantz]

Just now, Fantail Breeze said:

 

It’s still a red if you foul them without attempting to play the ball.

That's probably it then.

[Disco]

6 minutes ago, A good win said:

Cambridge forward goes through one on one with the keeper end of the first half, he’s brought down, it was a straight red and stone wall penalty. Ref bottles it because of the massive crowd. 

Utter horseshit given the bloke sat watching on the tele in London and talking into his ear didn’t think it was a pen either. 

[A good win]

It was basically a rugby tackle 😂 

[geordiesteve710]

2 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

It’s technically not a deflection because Shelvey intentionally attempts to play for the ball.

 

I don’t think it’s necessarily a new rule, I think it’s the updated guidance/interpretation around phases of play (when VAR came in).

An opponent intentionally playing for the ball and making contact = a new phase of play.

 

This is it.

 

It's completely at odds with the offside law as was for donkeys years. But it is a change in either the law or interpretation of the law which has been around since at least the beginning of last season.

[Hanshithispantz]

Mentioned it a few times but I cannot see how Schar's tap in is regarded as the same phase of play but Ironside's wasn't like. Unless their keeper is deemed to have accidentally saved it or something.

[Fantail Breeze]

7 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Mentioned it a few times but I cannot see how Schar's tap in is regarded as the same phase of play but Ironside's wasn't like. Unless their keeper is deemed to have accidentally saved it or something.

 

Rule doesn’t apply to goalkeepers when making a save, nor if the ball hits the frame of the goal.

 

I remember asking a similar point when this happened previously, someone found some guidance or rule on it somewhere - will try dig it out.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Fantail Breeze

[Disco]

Couldn’t give a shit about today but it’s hilariously stupid as a law. Ball glancing defenders without deviating enough to take it away from the intended recipient is not a new phase in anyway.

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, Dr Venkman said:

Probably an outlier here but I didn’t think we were THAT bad. We had the chances to win it but we don’t have a striker and their GK made some very good saves. We won’t have trained much at all to be the side in possession. For me it looked like a classic team at home struggling to break down an organised defence because we were missing the cutting edge.

 

Disappointed, yeah, but that’s not going to decide whether we’re going down or not. I’ll be really worried if we play like that against Watford.

 

We did more today than we did against Oxford h, Newport a and Rochdale a under Bruce (the lucky b*stard) it has to be said,

also has to be said Goliath beat David on merit points, play a striker (if we had a striker) we'd have won.

Crushed any hope i had against Watford though, because there's not much else we can do without signings, to say nothing of staying up.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Fantail Breeze]

11 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

Rule doesn’t apply to goalkeepers when making a save, nor if the ball hits the frame of the goal.

 

I remember asking a similar point when this happened previously, someone found some guidance or rule on it somewhere - will try dig it out.

 

 

 

 

@Hanshithispantz

It’s this paragraph from Rule 11:

 

”A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. 

 

A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).”

 

So their player was not offside and not considered to have gained an advantage because they received the ball from Shelvey (as he was the last player to deliberately play the ball).

 

Schar was offside because despite receiving the ball from the keeper, that is considered a deliberate save.

[geordiesteve710]

4 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

@Hanshithispantz

It’s this paragraph from Rule 11:

 

”A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. 

 

A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).”

 

So their player was not offside and not considered to have gained an advantage because they received the ball from Shelvey (as he was the last player to deliberately play the ball).

 

Schar was offside because despite receiving the ball from the keeper, that is considered a deliberate save.

So presumably you're offside if, for example, you're in an offside position when your team-mate shoots, the ball is cleared off the line by a defender and falls to you?

 

Would a deflection off a blocked shot count as offside as well, if that is an "attempt to stop a ball which is going into or very close to the goal."

 

I'm sure football used to be a simple game!!!

[McDog]

2 minutes ago, geordiesteve710 said:

So presumably you're offside if, for example, you're in an offside position when your team-mate shoots, the ball is cleared off the line by a defender and falls to you?

 

Would a deflection off a blocked shot count as offside as well, if that is an "attempt to stop a ball which is going into or very close to the goal."

 

I'm sure football used to be a simple game!!!

 

 

Starting to resemble American Football where the rule book is 400 pages long and even the referee's are not sure how to interpret it half the time.

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, Dr Venkman said:

Probably an outlier here but I didn’t think we were THAT bad. We had the chances to win it but we don’t have a striker and their GK made some very good saves. We won’t have trained much at all to be the side in possession. For me it looked like a classic team at home struggling to break down an organised defence because we were missing the cutting edge.

 

Disappointed, yeah, but that’s not going to decide whether we’re going down or not. I’ll be really worried if we play like that against Watford.

 

Yeah I didn't think we were apocalyptically bad or anything like that; I've seen dozens of worse performances than that over the years. We controlled the game (which is the least you'd expect) but were just horribly ineffective in the final third. Combine that with our usual charitable moments at the back and that combination of elements will invariably result in a defeat against any competent team who's up for it. Cambridge were confident, organised and backed by a keeper in tremendous form and that was that; good for them. 

 

There were a smattering of absolutely rancid individual performances; Dubravka a disgrace, Schar garbage on the ball, Longstaff terrible, and Willock laughably shit and disinterested. Murphy, Fraser and ASM were varying shades of bright/frustrating but nothing horrendously shit or anything. But I feel pretty certain that, with a defined focal point, we'd probably have won that, probably by half time. 

[Heron]

First and foremost, hats off to a team what...? 40 positions below us or some shit. Better team on the day and deserved winners. Came with a game plan. Executed it. Fans came in numbers, half of which were day trippers (or so I'm told), but they gave as good as they got (well not really. Much better than that!) and will go home after a good, heavy night on the toon where they can be proud of their club and town.

 

My friends and I, and many others it seemed, managed to remove what bitterness was there in an attempt to accept our failings and appreciate the obstacle overcome as a neutral.

 

Having spoke to a few Cambridge fans, they had nothing but love for Newcastle, despite supporting Liverpool and Chelsea and using Cambridge as their 'local' side.

 

I take great pride in that.

 

One guy said can we sing "Amber Army" as defiant fans sang "Eddie Howe's..." and I said "Yeah, if you want me to outsing you". 

 

Games like today make you realise what football is all about, neutrally.

 

However, massive however, what we collectively saw today was nothing short of a disgrace. I've never been so angry at my own team in all honesty. We lacked confidence, we lacked composure, we lacked creativity, but most of all courage, reliability and responsibility. 

 

We were psyhcologically not up to it today.

 

Complacency? Perhaps. Arrogance? Maybe. But at 1-0 down I got the impression only half understood the enormity of the situation, which frankly, massively concerns me. We were in absilutely desperate need of a striker tonight and leaders on the pitch. A week ago I was convinced we'd stay up. Now I have no such hope. We need charachter. In abundance. Not showmen, or mercanaries.

[Fantail Breeze]

Fun fact to cheer us all up:

 

We’re the only PL team to have not yet played at the new Wembley (discounting vs Spurs in the league).

[Toon No9]

The old offside rule was much more easy for everyone to understand. When a player from the attacking team was behind the last outfield player of the defending team when the ball is hit is offside. Easy as that, no ifs or buts.

 

Why make the rules more complicated than they need to be?

 

Only modern change of rule I can think of that has made a difference for the good of football is that a keeper is not alowed to take the ball with his hands when pass comes from his teammate.

[Yorkie]

Hoping for an account from @delboy23 despite the stinking result, by the by. 

[midds]

From the little I saw before and after the Cambridge fans seemed sound. They will clearly have had a good day and fair play, they deserved the win. Absolutely no hard feelings at all, good on them. 

[Neil]

Would it be fair to say that while embarrassing, the result in itself isn't one to be totally arsed about given the bigger picture and just merely reconfirms the urgent necessity for January arrivals?

[Thiago]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

Would it be fair to say that while embarrassing, the result in itself isn't one to be totally arsed about given the bigger picture and just merely reconfirms the urgent necessity for January arrivals?

Pretty much. 

 

Days like this reaffirm that regardless of where we end up this season the majority of this lot aren't worth the time.

[Wilson]

27 minutes ago, midds said:

From the little I saw before and after the Cambridge fans seemed sound. They will clearly have had a good day and fair play, they deserved the win. Absolutely no hard feelings at all, good on them. 

 

Aye.. I generally hate the 'your support is fucking shit' chant, and these definitely didnt deserve it today. 

[hakka]

22 minutes ago, Neil said:

Would it be fair to say that while embarrassing, the result in itself isn't one to be totally arsed about given the bigger picture and just merely reconfirms the urgent necessity for January arrivals?

 

If anything not being in the cup helps us focus on staying up with less games to handle overall or risk fitness/injury. I was hoping for us to dish out a humping today so the players finally had something positive to cling on to other than the Burnley result. This feels like a setback having momentum, but in grand scheme of things so much flux will be happening with 5 more players arriving it's all going to different to what was out there today. What's very clear is we need better control of games in the middle and better players in the final 3rd. Wilson and ASM are fine, but sadly Fraser, Shelvey, Longstaff, Almiron, Willock etc. are all nearly/occasional performers - we need solid performances now so some of these need to stand aside for better quality to land now.... and that's on top of improving a shaking defence.