More transfer rumours

[midds]

I think over the next couple of weeks they need to make some sort of decision about the strategy they seem to be using. At the minute they're digging their heels in and refusing to be bent over a barrel and pay more than they think players are worth. Whilst this goes on the squad remains strengthened but still a bit patchy in places. At some point they need to accept that it's either going to take longer to get the players they want or they need to start being more willing to cough up a bit more to get who they want in and move the club even further forward. It's all well and good being cautious and walking away from deals because they're too expensive but at some point they are going to have to start to overpay for the players on their lists. 

 

I'm not having a pop as I fully understand why they're walking away. But you can't constantly walk away from deals AND sign players to move up the table. It's one or the other in reality.  

[Fantail Breeze]

Just now, STM said:

 

Have you created your own deadline like? It's absolutely irrelevant when signing players for the next 4 years.

 

They aren't pandering to the whims of a couple of spoilt bairns on a football forum. They are a professional outfit trying to strike multi million pound deals, whilst not having their pants pulled down.

 

As I said, that’ll work in some circumstances like the deals mentioned - but to sign quality players to kick on in the way we want to* require a bit of risk and extra finance/player promises.

 

*Lets not forget the aims they have set out of challenging/winning the league in five years [can’t remember the exact quote] or “being the best in world football”. 

 

Just now, STM said:

Whatever sensible argument I put forward you will find a negative slant but don't worry you won't make me feel miserable. I'm buzzing at how far we have come in less than a year.

 

Nonsense, as always. My original post was perfectly balanced and put forward the positive deals but also reflected where we could/should be doing better. RAWK hyperbole whenever someone dares suggest something different.

 

I haven’t once said we haven’t come far, far from it. Sit back down and stop getting excited.

[STM]

Stadium re decorated.

Sports direct tat gone.

New CEO.

New DOF.

New manager.

Training ground upgrade.

New training ground already in the works.

Women's team investment.

A raft of new staff in other areas across the club.

150m ish spent of first team players, including 3 international class players.

Youth team recruitment under way.

A handful of deadwood off the wage bill.

New contracts for a few squad players dealt with.

 

But if we don't get a striker and winger (and they have to be good or I will whinge at that too) or I'm going to cry like a bairn.

[MrRaspberryJam]

7 minutes ago, STM said:

This might surprise you but it's far easier to sign shite players.

 

Dunno like Lee Charnley 10 years lowballing teams to sign their shite. 

[Fantail Breeze]

Just now, STM said:

Stadium re decorated.

Sports direct tat gone.

New CEO.

New DOF.

New manager.

Training ground upgrade.

New training ground already in the works.

Women's team investment.

A raft of new staff in other areas across the club.

150m ish spent of first team players, including 3 international class players.

Youth team recruitment under way.

A handful of deadwood off the wage bill.

New contracts for a few squad players dealt with.

 

But if we don't get a striker and winger (and they have to be good or I will whinge at that too) or I'm going to cry like a bairn.

 

Has anyone done that? Or have they just said it’s disappointing we haven’t signed one? Love a bit of made up fantasy to prove a non-existent argument. 

[STM]

1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

As I said, that’ll work in some circumstances like the deals mentioned - but to sign quality players to kick on in the way we want to* require a bit of risk and extra finance/player promises.

 

*Lets not forget the aims they have set out of challenging/winning the league in five years [can’t remember the exact quote] or “being the best in world football”. 

 

 

Nonsense, as always. My original post was perfectly balanced and put forward the positive deals but also reflected where we could/should be doing better. RAWK hyperbole whenever someone dares suggest something different.

 

I haven’t once said we haven’t come far, far from it. Sit back down and stop getting excited.

 

Bottom firmly on seat. ?

[54]

Just now, Fantail Breeze said:

 

Has anyone done that? Or have they just said it’s disappointing we haven’t signed one? Love a bit of made up fantasy to prove a non-existent argument. 

I don't know if you do it on purpose or not, or if it's just a natural skill, but you're great at winding people up, while also making completely rational points. It's kind of impressive

[gdm]

As tremendous as they new owners have done it would be pretty poor not to have a new signing in a forward role. 

[Skeletor]

11 minutes ago, midds said:

I think over the next couple of weeks they need to make some sort of decision about the strategy they seem to be using. At the minute they're digging their heels in and refusing to be bent over a barrel and pay more than they think players are worth. Whilst this goes on the squad remains strengthened but still a bit patchy in places. At some point they need to accept that it's either going to take longer to get the players they want or they need to start being more willing to cough up a bit more to get who they want in and move the club even further forward. It's all well and good being cautious and walking away from deals because they're too expensive but at some point they are going to have to start to overpay for the players on their lists. 

 

I'm not having a pop as I fully understand why they're walking away. But you can't constantly walk away from deals AND sign players to move up the table. It's one or the other in reality.  

 

Pretty much how I feel about it as well. It's inevitable we will overpay eventually despite all the overtures to the contrary. We did with Wood.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Skeletor

[STM]

1 minute ago, gdm said:

As tremendous as they new owners have done it would be pretty poor not to have a new signing in a forward role. 

Spot on but they have an eternity in transfer time (4 weeks) to get the right deals done.

 

If we haven't signed anyone in the forward areas by September 1st, I will be naturally disappointed but I will also reflect on what a tremendous 11 months they have had.

[Nobody]

I think we should probably stop quoting Staveley from the day the club was bought that we wanted to win the PL within 5 to ten years (especially if we're forgetting the 'to 10 years part'). 

Of course that's what anyone would say, especially in the heat of the moment while being asked thwt very question.

It's been clear since then that we're more interested in building the club from the ground up, and that will obviously take more than 5 years. Our new CEO hasn't even begin working with us yet for example. 

Anyway, I'm sure we'll sign another couple of players, hopefully very good ones, but even if we don't, there's no need to panic. 

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

 

Pretty much how I feel about it as well. It's inevitable we will overpay eventually despite all the overtures to the contrary. We did with Woods.

 

[gdm]

2 minutes ago, STM said:

Spot on but they have an eternity in transfer time (4 weeks) to get the right deals done.

 

If we haven't signed anyone in the forward areas by September 1st, I will be naturally disappointed but I will also reflect on what a tremendous 11 months they have had.

Oh aye I’ve no doubt they’ll get it done. Well at least one of them. 

[Mattoon]

It'll just be great to have a season where we're not looking over our shoulders desperate to get to the 40 point mark. Anything more than that after the last 14 years is a bonus. People forget far too quickly.

 

 

[midds]

1 minute ago, Skeletor said:

 

Pretty much how I feel about it as well. It's inevitable we will overpay eventually despite all the overtures to the contrary. We did with Woods.

We know why they're doing it and there's logic and reason behind it. They've done more in 8 months than Ashley ever did and I appreciate all of it. If we didn't sign another player this window then I'd still be grateful for the investment they made in January. I'd take a step back and look at the bigger picture and be more than satisfied. 

 

I'm just trying to say that they can't knock players back constantly, clubs know we're loaded, they know the Saudis are ambitious and that comes at a price. We're going to have to pay through the nose to get the deals done that are going to match the ambition of the Saudis. Yes, FFP comes into it but other clubs are essentially ignoring it and/or paying it lip service. Money in the bank isn't going to move NUFC up the table. 

[Tsunami]

We managed to sign 1 of our 2 major targets in Botman. We’ve also signed an England keeper and a LB who did a good job last year.

 

Any signing has to be the right one, it’s a long road ahead. The club know what’s needed and I’m all for them not accepting poor alternatives or agreeing ridiculous Newcastle Tax fees.

 

This season is really a bit of a free pass with rebuilding. The real time to worry is if can’t attract top targets in 2 or 3 years time. There’s a ceiling we need to smash through and it won’t be easy.

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

Aston Villa didn’t seem to have such difficulty signing Carlos, PSG and Ekitike.

 

This football manager line is tiresome. We’re not saying it’s easy to complete deals but other teams seem to be able to make comparable deals much easier than we can - there is obviously something astray.

 

Whether clubs/players/agents are taking the piss or we’re being stubborn with the structuring of our deals, who knows.

 

But we seem to be taking ages to do anything, again. It’s pretty crap not to have a striker in at this point given how obviously needed it is. It’s been needed since they came in October, surely we’ve been working on deals since then.

 

We can’t rely on Wilson to stay fit and Wood has already proven to be completely useless.

 

Some of the deals have been outstanding value; Trippier, Pope, Targett and they’ve done incredibly well on them, but we need to make moves sometimes on key positions/players out of the norm, imo. A quality striker is exactly that.

 

Surely if we're saying that the FM line is tiresome  then there's some appreciation that it works on a deal by deal basis and generally sought after players are far more difficult to obtain?

 

Chelsea, recent European Cup winners, have lost out on two targets to a rival club (Raphinha and Kounde) and abandoned another deal (Ake) due to the finances involved. Man United are finding the main deal they they want to do (de Jong) is incredibly complex and being made public by the selling club. Arsenal and West Ham have also missed out on primary targets (Raphinha, Martinez, Danjuma, etc), whilst still managing to secure others. 

 

We had three deals done by the end of June, including our primary defensive target who we fought off the Serie A champions to sign. We missed out on another primary targets to PSG, but it's swings and roundabouts, it doesn't necessarily mean something is astray.

[Thumbheed]

Signed 2 players by the 29th of January. 

 

Signed 2 more by the 31st (nearly 3). 

 

 

[STM]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

Surely if we're saying that the FM line is tiresome  then there's some appreciation that it works on a deal by deal basis and generally sought after players are far more difficult to obtain?

 

Chelsea, recent European Cup winners, have lost out on two targets to a rival club (Raphinha and Kounde) and abandoned another deal (Ake) due to the finances involved. Man United are finding the main deal they they want to do (de Jong) is incredibly complex and being made public by the selling club. Arsenal and West Ham have also missed out on primary targets (Raphinha, Martinez, Danjuma, etc), whilst still managing to secure others. 

 

We had three deals done by the end of June, including our primary defensive target who we fought off the Serie A champions to sign. We missed out on another primary targets to PSG, but it's swings and roundabouts, it doesn't necessarily mean something is astray.

Amen.

 

It's like some people expect the perfect transfer window. It doesn't exist. It's an exhausting exercise in brinkmanship.

[BonesJones]

If only we could get the players to experience SJP before hand. They'd be signing the dotted line far quicker.

[Fantail Breeze]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

 

Surely if we're saying that the FM line is tiresome  then there's some appreciation that it works on a deal by deal basis and generally sought after players are far more difficult to obtain?

 

Chelsea, recent European Cup winners, have lost out on two targets to a rival club (Raphinha and Kounde) and abandoned another deal (Ake) due to the finances involved. Man United are finding the main deal they they want to do (de Jong) is incredibly complex and being made public by the selling club. Arsenal and West Ham have also missed out on primary targets (Raphinha, Martinez, Danjuma, etc), whilst still managing to secure others. 

 

We had three deals done by the end of June, including our primary defensive target who we fought off the Serie A champions to sign. We missed out on another primary targets to PSG, but it's swings and roundabouts, it doesn't necessarily mean something is astray.

 

I don’t disagree with that - I think @middsis articulating the point I’m trying to make much better (and obviously upsetting less people).

 

We won’t move up the league consistently with this strategy that isn’t in line with their voice notes.

 

It’ll get us so far, which would probably be similar to West Ham in fighting for 4th/5th/6th but to push on beyond that we’ll need to accept we will need to move away from our self imposed wage cap and deals with as much value as possible.

 

A striker is essential this window and they cost a lot of money, it’s always an expensive position that requires a level of risk. My point being signing one is probably the difference of us getting European football or finishing midtable.

 

It’s been repeated a million times and people fail to understand. You can be delighted with our progress so far but also have a higher benchmark than finishing 14th and clear of relegation all season.

 

Absolutely from where we’ve come from that may be considered spoilt, but it’s not.

 

I’d be happy with a top half finish and a good cup run, fwiw. But if Wilson was injured for a majority of the season I think we’d struggle to achieve that. Good teams have good strikers, it’s such an important position.

[Fantail Breeze]

9 minutes ago, STM said:

Amen.

 

It's like some people expect the perfect transfer window. It doesn't exist. It's an exhausting exercise in brinkmanship.

 

Another fantasy point that you’ve just made up. You’re doing well at that today.

 

Asking to sign a competent striker across two windows isn’t asking for the world.

[TRon]

26 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Surely if we're saying that the FM line is tiresome  then there's some appreciation that it works on a deal by deal basis and generally sought after players are far more difficult to obtain?

 

Chelsea, recent European Cup winners, have lost out on two targets to a rival club (Raphinha and Kounde) and abandoned another deal (Ake) due to the finances involved. Man United are finding the main deal they they want to do (de Jong) is incredibly complex and being made public by the selling club. Arsenal and West Ham have also missed out on primary targets (Raphinha, Martinez, Danjuma, etc), whilst still managing to secure others. 

 

We had three deals done by the end of June, including our primary defensive target who we fought off the Serie A champions to sign. We missed out on another primary targets to PSG, but it's swings and roundabouts, it doesn't necessarily mean something is astray.

 

 

All those teams you mentioned there as having missed out on their targets still have fairly balanced squads though. They are much further down the road than us, if they don't get the striker or midfielder they want, they can afford to wait it out. We desperately need goals to make this campaign an exciting one.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

I don’t disagree with that - I think @middsis articulating the point I’m trying to make much better (and obviously upsetting less people).

 

We won’t move up the league consistently with this strategy that isn’t in line with their voice notes.

 

It’ll get us so far, which would probably be similar to West Ham in fighting for 4th/5th/6th but to push on beyond that we’ll need to accept we will need to move away from our self imposed wage cap and deals with as much value as possible.

 

A striker is essential this window and they cost a lot of money, it’s always an expensive position that requires a level of risk. My point being signing one is probably the difference of us getting European football or finishing midtable.

 

It’s been repeated a million times and people fail to understand. You can be delighted with our progress so far but also have a higher benchmark than finishing 14th and clear of relegation all season.

 

Absolutely from where we’ve come from that may be considered spoilt, but it’s not.

 

I’d be happy with a top half finish and a good cup run, fwiw. But if Wilson was injured for a majority of the season I think we’d struggle to achieve that. Good teams have good strikers, it’s such an important position.

 

You make some perfectly valid points.

 

The walking away business is from the Michael Edwards playbook. Liverpool only did it for a couple of transfer windows before clubs started to take them seriously again. The fact that we've very publicly walked away from a couple of deals has to be brinkmanship.

 

Brinkmanship or not though, I'll be shocked if we don’t get the business done that we need to by the close of play. We know that our transfer team are very methodical and they'll be grafting their balls off to get the right players in.

[The Prophet]

6 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

All those teams you mentioned there as having missed out on their targets still have fairly balanced squads though. They are much further down the road than us, if they don't get the striker or midfielder they want, they can afford to wait it out. We desperately need goals to make this campaign an exciting one.

 

The quality of the current squad doesn't impact how easy it is to do business though.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by The Prophet