Steve Bruce (now managing Blackpool)

[Manxst]

Just now, OCK said:

I honestly don't know. The guy must be loaded from all the pay he's received as a player/manager and then the payoffs for being shite... I mean sacked... He owns and mismanages property, too. I don't understand the guy. 

Greed. Or the knowledge that at some point, the facts will catch up with him and he’ll be outed as shit and won’t ever work again, so is getting the cash whilst people are still stupid enough to pay him. 

[TRon]

2 hours ago, HTT II said:

Moyes could have easily fallen into the PFM trap, but seems to have reinvented himself at WHU. The likes of him and Dyche are not very innovative or even anything special, they find a system, plan, set of tactics and a tempo or way of playing built around specific types of players and when the spirit in the camp is good, confidence is high and key players are playing regularly, they tend to do well enough to stay up, finish mid-table or even flirt with European places.

 

Man management is very key to managers like them and of course player recruitment, more so than it is perhaps for other more skilled, crafted and innovative managers.

 

Howe for example is far more innovative, but the risk with someone like Howe is because he’s constantly looking at all angles to improve his ideas, players and performances, if his team is just not firing, going back to the basics so to speak, can be too little too late, to get him and his team going again. We seen that with Bournemouth. The likes of Howe has far more capability to transfer his methods and ideas to other clubs and players than the likes of Dyche and Moyes who need to be in an ideal set up/club ideally to deliver results. Man Utd, Sociedad, Sunderland we’re bad fits for Moyes. Preston, Everton and WHU are perfect clubs for him.

 

Managers like Bruce rely on individuals, bounces, luck, not having many injuries and lowered expectations because they literally have zero football nous or acumen, technically and technically. Such managers will always always end up going on long winless runs, players being injured all the time, players under performing, dire football and the inevitable relegations or failure to achieve promotion.

 

Rafa is more like a Moyes or a Dyche, but he’s more rounded in terms of tactics, fitness, data and of course he is a superb coach on the actual training pitch, arguably world-class still and easily one of the best in the world. He’s not very innovative either these days, although he was when he first took up management.

 

Football is forever changing for course, bit for me, it’s still a simple game. What Howe is doing is nothing out of this world like, but he takes in everything that is needed in the modern game for a club, players and coaches and uses it all and puts it all together in training, in the dressing room and during matches for himself, his players and his coaching team, in one package and it’s very impressive as we are seeing.

 

I still consider Moyes and Dyche to be PFMs tbh, but there are degrees to PFMs as well. On the one hand you will have the likes of Allardyce or Pulis, who make no apologies about their route one football, then you have Moyes who is more of a football man, but would never really go all in like Howe has done. But you know they have certain basic principles around being hard to beat, and they find an effective way of getting results (to a point).

 

For me there's another category of manager who don't really know what their philosophy is and they just blag it week to week. This is where your Bruces and Pardews fit in. Long ball one week, then when it goes tits up it's "right, I'm doing it my way!" Then when they get beat again, it's back to park the bus and hoof it high and long. This category is sometimes called the fraud category.

[Wolfcastle]

6 hours ago, jackyboy said:

When Bruce left Newcastle I wonder if he gave any thought as to why he had failed so miserably. Eddie how travelled Europe, learning from top teams and coaches so that he could improve. Bruce would have travelled to a few different Gregg's shops no doubt.

 

Bruce literally went on vacation during a season whilst employed and paid heftily by the club.

Howe in his own time and at his own expense travelled Europe learning coaching techniques.

Even if it didn't work out, can't fault that attiutde and effort.

Its Bruce's sheer laze that gets up my chuff the most I think. Ungrateful c**t. He can't even be bothered to look busy and pretend he's doing something for all that money.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[St. Maximin]

Each to their own but I’m not really a fan of putting managers in this ‘PFM’. Not like they’re all the same. Tactically the likes of Pardew and Bruce aren’t fit to be spoken about in the same sentence as Pulis, Allardyce, Dyche etc. Their football may be ugly to watch but there is a plan and the tactics have been effective, even if outdated. 
 

In fact maybe I wouldn’t put Dyche in with them anyway. I think the ugly football and being associated with an unfashionable club with a high proportion of Brexit voters doesn’t help his cause, but he’s an intelligent and witty man I feel and you can’t knock the job he’s done there. 

[Palestoon]

Just now, St. Maximin said:

Each to their own but I’m not really a fan of putting managers in this ‘PFM’. Not like they’re all the same. Tactically the likes of Pardew and Bruce aren’t fit to be spoken about in the same sentence as Pulis, Allardyce, Dyche etc. Their football may be ugly to watch but there is a plan and the tactics have been effective, even if outdated. 
 

In fact maybe I wouldn’t put Dyche in with them anyway. I think the ugly football and being associated with an unfashionable club with a high proportion of Brexit voters doesn’t help his cause, but he’s an intelligent and witty man I feel and you can’t knock the job he’s done there. 

 

Agreed. Long ball does not equal "no tactics". You watch Burnley, and like them or not, you can see a clear plan and set up to how they play. You know the patterns, and what the team is trying to do. Compare that to our years under Pardew and Bruce.

 

I genuinely think Bruce doesn't realize he's a terrible manager. And its because in his time, management was less nuanced. He hasn't moved at all with the times.

So when he complains about injuries, "one or 2 chances go against us", or "rolling up wuh sleeves" he doesnt think any of those things are actually controllable. He thinks as long as you pick the right 11, choose a formation, give them some good words of motivation, you've done all you can do. Thats why he was so bitter towards us, he actually believed he was doing the most with what he had at his disposal. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Palestoon

[Thiago]

3 hours ago, OCK said:

Steve Bruce must love the game or be determined to prove people wrong. I can't understand why he'd get back into management so soon after a payoff from Newcastle. He's never really taken an extended break since he began as a player. The guy cannot coach and I can't imagine he's had the time to ever seek out other coaches he could learn from and improve. 

Do you reckon we got under his skin a bit? I sometimes feel like these types live in a bubble and he probably assumed he'd get a hero's welcome - do alright under Ashley then trot off into the sunset. Instead, while he did keep us up, the football was awful, he was derided from almost his ffirst game in charge, and saw more scrutiny about his ability than any previous club. The fact the players he blamed have picked up so quickly and now look to be much better also probably stung. 

[HaydnNUFC]

20 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Each to their own but I’m not really a fan of putting managers in this ‘PFM’. Not like they’re all the same. Tactically the likes of Pardew and Bruce aren’t fit to be spoken about in the same sentence as Pulis, Allardyce, Dyche etc. Their football may be ugly to watch but there is a plan and the tactics have been effective, even if outdated. 
 

In fact maybe I wouldn’t put Dyche in with them anyway. I think the ugly football and being associated with an unfashionable club with a high proportion of Brexit voters doesn’t help his cause, but he’s an intelligent and witty man I feel and you can’t knock the job he’s done there. 

 

There's multiple kinds of PFM though. Ultimately they're all past it British managers who get defended to the hilt by their mates on Sky, BT, TalkShite or journalists that they're mates with. 

 

Personally wouldn't count Dyche as a PFM personally, even though Burnley are as Brexit (in football terms) as you can get.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Palestoon said:

 

Agreed. Long ball does not equal "no tactics". You watch Burnley, and like them or not, you can see a clear plan and set up to how they play. You know the patterns, and what the team is trying to do. Compare that to our years under Pardew and Bruce.

 

I genuinely think Bruce doesn't realize he's a terrible manager. And its because in his time, management was less nuanced. He hasn't moved at all with the times.

So when he complains about injuries, "one or 2 chances go against us", or "rolling up wuh sleeves" he doesnt think any of those things are actually controllable. He thinks as long as you pick the right 11, choose a formation, give them some good words of motivation, you've done all you can do. Thats why he was so bitter towards us, he actually believed he was doing the most with what he had at his disposal. 

 

 

 

 

On the contrary I think Bruce knows he's a terrible manager, that's why he gets so defensive when prodded a bit. Also when you can't make your mind up what your actual preferred style or formation is, that suggests he has no confidence in any method and just throws different players and formations in the air hoping one sticks. Ditto Pardew.

[jackyboy]

When Bruce left Newcastle I wonder if he gave any thought as to why he had failed so miserably. Eddie how travelled Europe, learning from top teams and coaches so that he could improve. Bruce would have travelled to a few different Gregg's shops no doubt.

 

[jackyboy]

Bruce didn't keep us up, it was effort by some of the players. We stayed up despite Bruce not because of.

[MrRaspberryJam]

7 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

When Bruce left Newcastle I wonder if he gave any thought as to why he had failed so miserably. Eddie how travelled Europe, learning from top teams and coaches so that he could improve. Bruce would have travelled to a few different Gregg's shops no doubt.

 

 

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Bruce was convinced he did a cracking job at NUFC and was genuinely confused as to why the fans hated him and why he got the chop.

[rgk_lfc]

17 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

It stems back further but I think a huge watershed moment for English football was Guardiola being appointed by Man City in 2016. The season before he was there, Leicester won the league and all of the traditional 'top 6' bar Spurs were really shit. (I know Spurs capitulated after Leicester clinched it but 15/16 was good by their standards then) and the top 6 clubs never cantered to wins as much as they do now. Liverpool didn't win the league with 97 points ffs. 

 

There comes a minutiae of good with this though, as England have performed exceptionally well in the last 2 tournaments as opposed to what happened before and English clubs do quite well in the Champions League. 

 

How this comes back to Bruce though, I think Guardiola coming here really shown up how poor this league really was. The managers primarily. And its pushed Bruce's ilk, the has been, PFM, media friendly 'Brexit' manager so far down the pecking line that they don't get jobs in the PL anymore. If not for Ashley no PL club would've touched Bruce. Stints and relegations at WBA have finished off the chances of Allardyce and Pardew of managing in the division again. Mark Hughes since getting the bullet at Stoke and Southampton has only just gotten a job the other week, at League Two Bradford City. Pulis can't get a job for love nor money. Dyche is the only one left that you probably could count in this but I think that's an insult to him; despite that we're competing with Burnley to stay up and the football they play is horrid, he's done a superb job there with limited resources. Has been there for ~10 years and I actually like hearing him speak about football in general as well as the games. (Not including Hodgson here as Watford will probably go down and won't be there beyond this season imo)

 

The managers that are getting appointed now are the German/Austrian gegenpressing, intense football type; the Iberian tiki taka and tactical obssessives and the young(ish) progressive British coaches who are the antithesis of the manager of the 80s, 90s and pre-Guardiola era of the Premier League. Listen to how Potter, Howe, Rodgers and maybe Smith speak to the cameras compared to how Pardew, Allardyce, Holloway and Warnock spoke. These attitudes are reflected in their philosophies and work ethics. It remains to be seen whether Lampard and Gerrard will be the new era type of PFM or type of manager that is always talked up or defended in the media for jobs by their mates.

 

Bottom line is, football in this country has moved on miles in the space of less than a decade. And moved lightyears past Bruce, and his kind. He simply shouldn't be getting touched with a barge pole by any club worth their salt at a decent level.

 

 

 

 

Amazing post. Also, want to add that there is a quiet revolution happening in the background in terms of youth development and coaching in England with  a lot of emphasis on technique and skills. Look at the quality of youngsters being generated by Southampton, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, LFC, United, City as well as some of the lower league clubs like Fulham, Swansea, Brighton etc. (Apologies if I missed out on any). I feel like the fullbacks English clubs are generating who are all less than 23 years old are better than any other nations. 

 

In the attacking front, players like Foden, Sterling - they have so much skill and game intelligence, can play midfield, on the wing, upfront. I can easily see them play for Bayern, Barcelona - any club in Europe if they wanted to.  Rice, Bellingham, Henderson, Kalvin Phillips - again not as impressive as some of the past English players(with the exception of Bellingham) but are definitely tactically more flexible and seem to have the ability to listen to managers tactics and execute them on the field. 

 

I remember being amazed by Woodgate and Ferdinand on the level of comfort they displayed in playing the ball when they first broke out. Now, the fifth choice central defender at LFC can do this at the San Siro: https://youtu.be/Ec8aVUKo3kY.  I am not saying they will be as good as some of their counterparts in the past, but in most of the academies through England, central defenders are now being coached to be comfortable on the ball, occasionally dribble their way out trouble, and play good crossfield passes if the opportunities approach. Most fans and coaches want to see players with technique, skill and not just players who "get stuck in".

 

I feel like a lot of this work which is happening in the background and the type of tactically and technically skilled players which are being generated means that PFM managers are becoming more and more irrelevant and opening the door for a new breed of managers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Amazing post. Also, want to add that there is a quiet revolution happening in the background in terms of youth development and coaching in England with  a lot of emphasis on technique and skills. Look at the quality of youngsters being generated by Southampton, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, LFC, United, City as well as some of the lower league clubs like Fulham, Swansea, Brighton etc. (Apologies if I missed out on any). I feel like the fullbacks English clubs are generating who are all less than 23 years old are better than any other nations. 

 

In the attacking front, players like Foden, Sterling - they have so much skill and game intelligence, can play midfield, on the wing, upfront. I can easily see them play for Bayern, Barcelona - any club in Europe if they wanted to.  Rice, Bellingham, Henderson, Kalvin Phillips - again not as impressive as some of the past English players(with the exception of Bellingham) but are definitely tactically more flexible and seem to have the ability to listen to managers tactics and execute them on the field. 

 

I remember being amazed by Woodgate and Ferdinand on the level of comfort they displayed in playing the ball when they first broke out. Now, the fifth choice central defender at LFC can do this at the San Siro: https://youtu.be/Ec8aVUKo3kY.  I am not saying they will be as good as some of their counterparts in the past, but in most of the academies through England, central defenders are now being coached to be comfortable on the ball, occasionally dribble their way out trouble, and play good crossfield passes if the opportunities approach. Most fans and coaches want to see players with technique, skill and not just players who "get stuck in".

 

I feel like a lot of this work which is happening in the background and the type of tactically and technically skilled players which are being generated means that PFM managers are becoming more and more irrelevant and opening the door for a new breed of managers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of that development in the English game from grassroots to academies and England is down to a certain Dan Ashworth…

[joeyt]

 

 

 

 

[Tiresias]

Had he declared he is going to do it his way yet or is he like us going to wait at least a season has passed to start doing it his way like he did with us?

[Paully]

2 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like a lifetime ago never mind a year!

 

it's absolutely delicious seeing him stink out another club - long may it continue too!

 

Us "deluded Geordies" do know a thing or two (see also Pardew / Schteve!)!

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Paully

[Skeletor]

The whole "he's a nice guy" thing is Kremlin standard propaganda. He comes in and upsets everyone everywhere he goes.

[Ben]

He's away at Hull this weekend, is that one of the clubs he wasn't sacked by ? 

[SUPERTOON]

Some entertainment:

 

 

[Keggy_Keagal]

Hated listening to this oaf when he managed us so not about to start listening to him now he's West Brom .

[Joey Linton]

13 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Some entertainment:

 

 

He just oozes self preservation. 

 

Loves the "expectation" line too. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Has he got the other Steves with him as well? 

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Has he got the other Steves with him as well? 

Yep and his son 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Christ on a bike

 

That interview is absolute Brucey bingo as well. Players can’t handle being in the top half of the championship, we’ve played well for 30 minutes here and there. We just need to get a result. 
 

No Steve, you need to work out why you aren’t getting results and implement that with your players in training. 

[Fantail Breeze]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Christ on a bike

 

That interview is absolute Brucey bingo as well. Players can’t handle being in the top half of the championship, we’ve played well for 30 minutes here and there. We just need to get a result. 
 

No Steve, you need to work out why you aren’t getting results and implement that with your players in training. 

 

They handled it well for the first 29 games without Bruce, sitting in the playoffs throughout.