LFEE Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Well only the club will know how many people sign up during the season, we're obviously speculating. It's about the principle of making sure people like opposition fans and touts can't sign up for memberships. The cost is the same whether you buy your membership pre-season or during, it doesn't make attending a match any more or less expensive. You might be right that touts will find a way around, or just buy 100 memberships at the start of the season. But on the other hand that kind of purchase behaviour might be easier to track and ban. And anyway, nobody is saying it's the one solution, it's just part of the measures that could be taken. And there has been some good suggestions made regarding that. To not sell something when club is desperate for money and to grow its fan base is a non starter in my eyes. Wrong. The club have a budget. Ticket prices set accordingly to it. That will include how much they’ve made on memberships in that pot. So what you lose from one pot they’d seek to make up in the other. You sell 30K memberships instead of 100K memberships there will be games like last night priced higher especially if opposition more attractive. And like I said in my original post of all the measures listed this one won’t fly for the reasons I’ve given and for the minimal actual impact it have which you’ve now just admitted. Edited February 25 by LFEE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said: And ultimately what you'll find is that people will look at it and say, actually it's not really a product worth buying anymore. I'm a prime case example. This is my last season. My brother and nephew didn't renew their memberships at the end of last season because they thought it was a waste of time. I've got other mates/lads in work with who've had memberships in the past but don't have them now. No doubt the bots/touts will keep the numbers looking good but it's hardly a good business model. People buying memberships in their droves to experience the "famous St James' Park atmosphere" then entering a ballot and if they do get lucky they pay through the nose to go to a game to sit in silence or listen to someone whinge or chat about anything other than football for 90 mins. So they won't be in a hurry to go back again because it doesn't represent value for money. And that membership becomes a one off purchase that they never repeat, because they just wanted to experience a game and the experience turned out to be shit. Edited February 25 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) I didn't admit the minimal impact, I said we don't know the impact. Also if the impact is small then it shouldn't impact PSR very much? I would personally do it just because it's the right thing to do for our fans. I think this is the problem with ticketing being (presumably) purely under the business part of the club rather than anything close to fan experience. As I've said many times, there's probably not a business case for absolutely anything to do with ticketing or touting - the status quo is fine financially for the club. Same reason we have a disgraceful ticketing website and not even the ability to write a decent line of copy on an interface. But we are discussing what they should do to make the process fairer and more accessible for fans. Edited February 25 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, LFEE said: And there has been some good suggestions made regarding that. To not sell something when club is desperate for money and to grow its fan base is a non starter in my eyes. Wrong. The club have a budget. Ticket prices set accordingly to it. That will include how much they’ve made on memberships in that pot. So what you lose from one pot they’d seek to make up in the other. You sell 30K memberships instead of 100K memberships there will be games like last night priced higher. And like I said in my original post of all the measures listed this one won’t fly for the reasons I’ve given and for the minimal actual impact it have which you’ve now just admitted. Price elasticity will dictate how much they can charge for tickets. The unsold £720 tickets for the derby are a real life illustration of that happening right now. It's GCSE level Business Studies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said: People buying memberships in their droves to experience the "famous St James' Park atmosphere" then entering a ballot and if they do get lucky they pay through the nose to go to a game to sit in silence or listen to someone whinge or chat about anything other than football for 90 mins. So they won't be in a hurry to go back again because it doesn't represent value for money. And that membership becomes a one off purchase that they never repeat, because they just wanted to experience a game and the experience turned out to be shit. Ultimately we'll get to a point where bots/tout memberships will outnumber genuine supporters who have memberships unless things change. It's likely a wider problem than people realise amd I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason very few actual supporters seem to have picked up tickets in the members sale for Sunderland. I literally don't know anyone who got one. Arsenal have banned 31,000 bot/tout memberships since 2023, Chelsea ban "thousands" every season. These touts will target all the top clubs where demand massively outstrips supply so whilst our number might not be quite as high as Arsenals I think we'd get a real shock if we knew the true numbers. Tbf to Arsenal, and Chelsea, they seem to at least be proactive in banning them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said: Ultimately we'll get to a point where bots/tout memberships will outnumber genuine supporters who have memberships unless things change. It's likely a wider problem than people realise amd I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason very few actual supporters seem to have picked up tickets in the members sale for Sunderland. I literally don't know anyone who got one. Arsenal have banned 31,000 bot/tout memberships since 2023, Chelsea ban "thousands" every season. These touts will target all the top clubs where demand massively outstrips supply so whilst our number might not be quite as high as Arsenals I think we'd get a real shock if we knew the true numbers. Tbf to Arsenal, and Chelsea, they seem to at least be proactive in banning them. @HaydnNUFC got one. He may be using more devices than the touts and bots though… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Wallsendmag said: Ultimately we'll get to a point where bots/tout memberships will outnumber genuine supporters who have memberships unless things change. It's likely a wider problem than people realise amd I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason very few actual supporters seem to have picked up tickets in the members sale for Sunderland. I literally don't know anyone who got one. Arsenal have banned 31,000 bot/tout memberships since 2023, Chelsea ban "thousands" every season. These touts will target all the top clubs where demand massively outstrips supply so whilst our number might not be quite as high as Arsenals I think we'd get a real shock if we knew the true numbers. Tbf to Arsenal, and Chelsea, they seem to at least be proactive in banning them. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we had more tout members than real members right now. As soon as you play some high demand games that neutrals as well as NUFC fans want to attend; Barca in the CL, makems at home, Man City numerous times a season, then it gives the touts even more of an incentive to sign up and make some dolla, dolla bills y'all. And NUFC can say all they want about banning touts if they find them. As long as we have unlimited, unvetted memberships, all season long for £40 then if they get banned they just sign straight back up again. No point putting a Ring doorbell on the front door, if you leave you back door open at all times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I didn't admit the minimal impact, I said we don't know the impact. Also if the impact is small then it snloldn't impact PSR very much? I would personally do it just because it's the right thing to do for our fans. I think this is the problem with ticketing being (presumably) purely under the business part of the club rather than anything close to fan experience. As I've said many times, there's probably not a business case for absolutely anything to do with ticketing or touting - the status quo is fine financially for the club. Same reason we have a disgraceful ticketing website and not even the ability to write a decent line of copy on an interface. But we are discussing what they should do to make the process fairer and more accessible for fans. “You might be right that touts will find a way around, or just buy 100 memberships at the start of the season” You might. A football club in our position won’t. Maybe when we are in with the big boys instead of playing catchup several laps behind. There’s never been importance put on fan experience in all my years It’s up to the fans themselves! No one stopping anyone from singing and engaging regardless of membership numbers. We are only ever discussing 15-20% of the stadium in reality. There is because the club would rather they were getting £100-150 legitimately than some tout getting the same as there is a market for it clearly. That’s why they will look to take measures IMO and aren’t doing nothing about like you and others think. We weren’t originally. Also who are you or I to decide who is a football fan? Think it was more that a load of people missed out on derby tickets and decided to have another whinge about memberships. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LFEE said: “You might be right that touts will find a way around, or just buy 100 memberships at the start of the season” You might. A football club in our position won’t. Maybe when we are in with the big boys instead of playing catchup several laps behind. There’s never been importance put on fan experience in all my years It’s up to the fans themselves! No one stopping anyone from singing and engaging regardless of membership numbers. We are only ever discussing 15-20% of the stadium in reality. There is because the club would rather they were getting £100-150 legitimately than some tout getting the same as there is a market for it clearly. That’s why they will look to take measures IMO and aren’t doing nothing about like you and others think. We weren’t originally. Also who are you or I to decide who is a football fan? Think it was more that a load of people missed out on derby tickets and decided to have another whinge about memberships. Simple question about derby tickets. If the club followed usual protocol and put thousands in the general sale, how come they were all gone by position 400 in the queue ? Have we got a tech-savvy fan base who can ensure very low queue positions, then hoover up thousands of tickets via a few hundred accounts within a couple of minutes. Personally, I'm not pissed off that I didn't get a ticket for the derby if I know that all tickets went to genuine fans. If genuine fans can game the system so that 400 accounts get thousands of tickets then fair play to them, they're smarter than the smartest system gamers on N-O. But if touts are getting thousands of tickets and punting them out at £500 a pop, then I'm pissed off. Because NUFC could be doing a lot more to stop touts. Edited February 25 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) It's very strange that you can get a ticket for Brentford up to 4 or 5k in the queue but Sunderland or Barcelona is sold out at 400. Edited February 25 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 11 minutes ago, LFEE said: “You might be right that touts will find a way around, or just buy 100 memberships at the start of the season” You might. A football club in our position won’t. Maybe when we are in with the big boys instead of playing catchup several laps behind. There’s never been importance put on fan experience in all my years It’s up to the fans themselves! No one stopping anyone from singing and engaging regardless of membership numbers. We are only ever discussing 15-20% of the stadium in reality. There is because the club would rather they were getting £100-150 legitimately than some tout getting the same as there is a market for it clearly. That’s why they will look to take measures IMO and aren’t doing nothing about like you and others think. We weren’t originally. Also who are you or I to decide who is a football fan? Think it was more that a load of people missed out on derby tickets and decided to have another whinge about memberships. I meant 'fan experience' more in terms of the customer experience of joining as a member and obtaining tickets for matches. What it feels like to be a member of the club who wants to go to games. Nobody is trying to decide on an individual basis who is and isn't a fan, it's more about the systems that could be put in place to tip the balance one way or another. We know the club probably won't do this, because they could already and haven't. But I think it would be a positive measure for most fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 23 minutes ago, LFEE said: Think it was more that a load of people missed out on derby tickets and decided to have another whinge about memberships. Any thoughts on those who were 700 or 800 in the member general sale queue only to see there were no tickets left, or are you just here to be dismissive and condescending towards members again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I decided to ignore that bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 minutes ago, Interpolic said: Any thoughts on those who were 700 or 800 in the member general sale queue only to see there were no tickets left, or are you just here to be dismissive and condescending towards members again? Is Luke a season ticket holding snob? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 37 minutes ago, SteV said: @HaydnNUFC got one. He may be using more devices than the touts and bots though… I do sometimes wonder that myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 25 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I decided to ignore that bit I didn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si67 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Another ballot another failure. Noticed that the email doesn’t start with unfortunately any more so you have to go in before you find out. Good for Qarabag; no good for PL or FA Cup. It stinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 This time next year me and MrsG are gonna rock up in the pick up, park in our usual spot on the ample car park, set up the chairs and BBQ, crack open the beer cooler and enjoy our pre-match tailgate parrrrtaaay. Then stay there and listen to the match on the van radio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, Si67 said: Another ballot another failure. Noticed that the email doesn’t start with unfortunately any more so you have to go in before you find out. Good for Qarabag; no good for PL or FA Cup. It stinks. It does for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 44 x ballot entries since Aug 2024 2 x wins FUCKING BRADFORD and Brentford Beat that if you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgarve Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just got my 3rd of the season , Barcelona , villa and the city cup game. Actually not too bad now I guess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Got City. On a roll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: 44 x ballot entries since Aug 2024 2 x wins FUCKING BRADFORD and Brentford Beat that if you can. Has to be some sort of marker on your membership number. That is ridiculous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said: Has to be some sort of marker on your membership number. That is ridiculous! It's so tragic that I've even contacted NUFC to ask if I've been blackballed. They insist I haven't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 hours ago, bobbydazzla said: Are loyalty points passed on ? Aye, not just through death. My da's mate has got well over a 100 points and all but a handful were mine, came with the ST when I passed it on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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