Zero Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, madras said: So pick out the ones that haven't been great and ignore the ones that worked out ? Did we know Burn was too good to turn down ? I don’t think this window and the last one is comparable. Last winter basically all reinforcements are too good to turn down, and Howe hasn’t worked out how the team as a whole should play in order to bring the best results. Last summer Howe got what he wants and has a complete pre season to drill the players. We are playing a complete team game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Zero said: That’s exactly the point I want to make. Longstaff is a very easy target that looks easily replaceable - but in fact he has the most distance covered per match. He covered a lot for Bruno and Trippier. If the one we bring in to replace him now - without a proper pre season training to fit in - could not cover as much as Longstaff, then our result probably would not get better, or become even worse than now. It’s a big gamble to bring in someone like Maddison or Tielemans now, and the question is, is it necessary to do it “now” or we could wait till “summer” in order to keep our form? Don't think it's a gamble at all. Some games they'd play instead of Willock, some games instead of Longstaff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, Zero said: That’s exactly the point I want to make. Longstaff is a very easy target that looks easily replaceable - but in fact he has the most distance covered per match. He covered a lot for Bruno and Trippier. If the one we bring in to replace him now - without a proper pre season training to fit in - could not cover as much as Longstaff, then our result probably would not get better, or become even worse than now. It’s a big gamble to bring in someone like Maddison or Tielemans now, and the question is, is it necessary to do it “now” or we could wait till “summer” in order to keep our form? My preference is to focus on getting a winger in this window so teams can't double/triple up on Almiron or ASM (they never seem to play at the same time). However, there will be matches where we will control the game more and will need to unlock opposition defences (eg. Palace, Leeds) where we won't require a grafter as much as we need another player to create space, create & take chances. In other matches against the top teams we're probably better off with the defensive qualities of Longstaff so it wouldn't hurt if we got another CM in to have more options and better cover on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, Zero said: I don’t think this window and the last one is comparable. Last winter basically all reinforcements are too good to turn down, and Howe hasn’t worked out how the team as a whole should play in order to bring the best results. Last summer Howe got what he wants and has a complete pre season to drill the players. We are playing a complete team game. The only difference was the urgency. Now, like I've said, it's less urgent given our position but whenever an improvement at the right price comes along, you take it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsays Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 The way Howe works no player, no matter how good they are, is going to come straight into the team anyway - it will be up to them to prove in training that thye are worthy of a place. If we carry on winning and the current players keep performing then new signings will likely be limited to sub appearances until someone gets injured, suspended or their form drops. decent cover for Bruno and Trippier are the only positions i see as urgent TBH. We are light a central midfielder anyway so someone like Tielemans who could deputise for Bruno/replace longstaff for games when we will have more of the ball would be perfect. Thje young aspanish lad at RB seems perfect as Trippier is always going to tart when available. For everything else i'd be waiting until the Summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, madras said: The only difference was the urgency. Now, like I've said, it's less urgent given our position but whenever an improvement at the right price comes along, you take it. Then why Asprilla failed at that time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, simonsays said: The way Howe works no player, no matter how good they are, is going to come straight into the team anyway - it will be up to them to prove in training that thye are worthy of a place. If we carry on winning and the current players keep performing then new signings will likely be limited to sub appearances until someone gets injured, suspended or their form drops. decent cover for Bruno and Trippier are the only positions i see as urgent TBH. We are light a central midfielder anyway so someone like Tielemans who could deputise for Bruno/replace longstaff for games when we will have more of the ball would be perfect. Thje young aspanish lad at RB seems perfect as Trippier is always going to tart when available. For everything else i'd be waiting until the Summer Depends on the situation, last January Burn, Trippier and Targett did, I think Wood as well. Isak did also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, Zero said: Then why Asprilla failed at that time? Did Asprilla fail ? Did the team fail as a whole ? Could it have been Batty ? Could it have been Man Utd went on a fantastic run like we did at the start of that season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, madras said: Depends on the situation, last January Burn, Trippier and Targett did, I think Wood as well. Isak did also I think that's more because they were replacing players who were either playing shit (the defence) or were injured (Wilson with Wood/Isak) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Zero said: Then why Asprilla failed at that time? Asprilla didn’t work in 95-96 because he seemed to be bought with no plan as to how it fit into the team. Beardsley and Ferdinand weren’t going to be dropped and KK resolutely stuck to 4-4-2 meaning Asprilla or Beardsley would find themselves on the wing. If the point is though that the signing of Asprilla derailed the title push, that’s always been a ludicrous press narrative. The failing in the second half of the season were multiple - Ferdinand stopped scoring; Ginola stopped playing after the Arsenal LC QF; Gillespie’s extended injury lay-off unbalancing the side; KK’s ongoing inability to actually get a decent GK; an ageing Beardsley’s moments of magic becoming more sporadic; Rob Lee’s standard second half of a season. Etc etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: I think that's more because they were replacing players who were either playing shit (the defence) or were injured (Wilson with Wood/Isak) That's what I mean, it's less urgent but if say, we got a Maddison on a decent deal, got to go for it and I think he wouldn't be straight on if fit bit not far from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stal Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 If he got in players now, he wouldn't necessarily put them straight in anyway and they'd be bedded in gradually from the bench. I'm not worried either way, I'm just happy at having such a well organised team with a fantastic team spirit that tries for the fans and we have an inspirational manager. Not so happy at people calling midfielders "6" like, but I'll deal with it for our current situation, seems like a fair trade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 There are rumours in Brazil that NUFC is interested in Vitor Roque, release clause is 60M Euros. (Witch Barça and PSG also after him) Him and Endrick are the best U20 brazilian strikers right now (Roque was chosen as one of the best players in last Year Libertadores cup still being just 17) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 14 hours ago, Theregulars said: Who do you think is offering to buy our deadwood and take on their wages, out of interest? Nobody, but I recognize Ashworth has mentioned it several times - player trading must happen for those to get off the books and for us to actually have cash inflows outside of commercial deals and ticket/merch sales etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushimonster85 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 As much as it pains me to say it, 95/96 coming off the rails was largely down to KK and his inability to react to what was happening and making changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushimonster85 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kanji said: Nobody, but I recognize Ashworth has mentioned it several times - player trading must happen for those to get off the books and for us to actually have cash inflows outside of commercial deals and ticket/merch sales etc. Feel like this is another aspect similar to asking prices we may get quoted for players we're trying to buy. Teams will know we're desperate to offload players, and will attempt to pull our pants down. "oh, you want £8m for Ryan Fraser? How about we give you nothing, and you cover 50% of his wages till the end of his contract term would have been with you?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, JNK said: There are rumours in Brazil that NUFC is interested in Vitor Roque, release clause is 60M Euros. (Witch Barça and PSG also after him) Him and Endrick are the best U20 brazilian strikers right now (Roque was chosen as one of the best players in last Year Libertadores cup still being just 17) I can’t see us breaking the bank for unproven players at present tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 48 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I can’t see us breaking the bank for unproven players at present tbh Well, he's been compared to Ronaldo and had a great spell in his first professional year with decisive goals and assists in the brasileirao and Libertadores. For comparsion, Alvaréz who went from River to City this year at this age wasn't even a professional yet. At 17, he's not such a gamble (I doubt he will be sold for the release clause, I'd say he's gonna be sold for something like 35M Euros) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, reefatoon said: Sorry Zero fella, but that sounds madness. Just look what all the signings did last January. It was a massive lift. Why would that be the opposite this January? We are flying high, but signing a quality player or two this month would be a huge lift to the team. You sign great players, they lift everyone around them too. Im not disagreeing that signing a player wouldn’t give us a little extra boost, but the question is do we NEED to take a risk and dent our FFP now instead of the summer? It’s not as simple as more good players = better result. And the comparison to last Jan is a pointless argument, the circumstances being entirely opposite. We had no choice a year ago. Edited January 13, 2023 by Nine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I'm not sure how reliable these Brazilian prices are, aside from Endrick who is a generational talent. Andre Santos was linked to us for 35m and he went to Chelsea for 12m? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, JNK said: Well, he's been compared to Ronaldo and had a great spell in his first professional year with decisive goals and assists in the brasileirao and Libertadores. For comparsion, Alvaréz who went from River to City this year at this age wasn't even a professional yet. At 17, he's not such a gamble (I doubt he will be sold for the release clause, I'd say he's gonna be sold for something like 35M Euros) Inject this please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Nine said: Im not disagreeing that signing a player wouldn’t give us a little extra boost, but the question is do we NEED to take a risk and dent our FFP now instead of the summer? It’s not as simple as more good players = better result. And the comparison to last Jan is a pointless argument, the circumstances being entirely opposite. We had no choice a year ago. Of course we need to, standing still at any opportunity to improve the team is a risk. Howe has us in an unbelievable position, we are doing much better than first thought and that stands is in a really strong position of attracting a better quality player than previously thought. To find ourselves where we are, they will all be pushing to improve the team if they can and help the momentum. I’m sure he is asking for a certain type player, but it will be to enhance the team not the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) If the right player is available that we really want and there’s a deal to be done why wait until the summer? Someone please explain this to me? Why stand “still” IF we can improve our chances now already when it comes to reaching top 4. Even if we don’t make the CL then we have signed a player that improves us. It’s one less signing to make in the summer. By saying this I wish to clarify that I don’t think we should sign a player for the sake of it, or thinking short term. I’d like to think that we are attractive enough now for most players, or players that are more than good enough for now and the long term. I mean we might even be more attractive now compared to say that we don’t strengthen and risk not making the top 4 and try for players in the summer instead. Personally I can see the club rebalancing its budget. At least I hope so if there’s the right deal to be done. i don’t understand the “we don’t need” to. Edited January 13, 2023 by Ikon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, TRC said: I'm not sure how reliable these Brazilian prices are, aside from Endrick who is a generational talent. Andre Santos was linked to us for 35m and he went to Chelsea for 12m? FYI in Brazil, Vitor Roque is considered at the same level if not even better than Endrick because he already proven himself in decisive high level matches (he was decisive in reaching the Libertadores final last year) many people wanted him to have a space in this year WC squad just for him to get this kind of experience, like Ronaldo had in 1994 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, JNK said: FYI in Brazil, Vitor Roque is considered at the same level if not even better than Endrick because he already proven himself in decisive high level matches (he was decisive in reaching the Libertadores final last year) many people wanted him to have a space in this year WC squad just for him to get this kind of experience, like Ronaldo had in 1994 Ah ok, I had never heard of him! Fair enough then, so many Brazilian wonderkids I never know how many are actually wonderkids Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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