João Pedro

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

I'd go for that. We lack presence in the opposition box, way too many times. I thought Willock would be getting in there, but he just isn't. It seems to be dragging Bruno too far up the pitch at times, which wouldn't be an issue if Shelvey was sitting in, of course.

This is based off the first two games, in which Wilson was well shepherded but, aside from his goal, I don't think I've seen him attack the near post.

 

Yes, I really have been disappointed by Willock so far. I thought that role would allow him to be the goal scoring threat he was when he first joined, but it hasn't quite clicked for him yet.

 

If Ramos did come in to start in that support striker role when we have the ball, as you say, it will give us more of a presence and goal threat in the box. It would be a slightly different way to add that, as I'm not sure we've been happy with the deals available for that wide right side of the pitch.

 

It might mean for the meantime that we don't then upgrade the wide positions, unless we bring someone in on loan there, which would be a strong possibility too, from the links we are seeing.

 

At Bournemouth Howe's two main catalysts for getting goals were Wilson and King, and the wide men were okayish i.e. the likes of Stanislas, Fraser, Ibe, Brooks etc. Having Wilson and Ramos would kind of mirror that approach more as our current wide men are somewhat similar.

[Optimistic Nut]

Yeah as depressing as some of his Tweets seem he's been right most of the time, Hope. The fact he thinks this one we're confident we'll reach an agreement sounds promising. Can't remember him Tweeting like that for others we've bid for.

[Scoot]

A lot of people were questioning the signings of Burn and Targett and look how they've turned out for us (Chris Wood, i know). I understand people will question certain signings but for me I completely trust the manager and Ashworth in all of this. 

 

Whatever they go for I'm happy with as there's obviously a plan in place and we've seen how much Howe can improve players.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Scoot

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, I really have been disappointed by Willock so far. I thought that role would allow him to be the goal scoring threat he was when he first joined, but it hasn't quite clicked for him yet.

 

If Ramos did come in to start in that support striker role when we have the ball, as you say, it will give us more of a presence and goal threat in the box. It would be a slightly different way to add that, as I'm not sure we've been happy with the deals available for that wide right side of the pitch.

 

It might mean for the meantime that we don't then upgrade the wide positions, unless we bring someone in on loan there, which would be a strong possibility too, from the links we are seeing.

 

At Bournemouth Howe's two main catalysts for getting goals were Wilson and King, and the wide men were okayish i.e. the likes of Stanislas, Fraser, Ibe, Brooks etc. Having Wilson and Ramos would kind of mirror that approach more as our current wide men are somewhat similar.

 

The stats guy from the Toon Review channel (Alex) made a good point re Willock, he says he's still developing, we tend to forget we bought him as a 21 year old, and he's still learning to play a totally different way to what he was when he came here. He should be our back up from the bench rather than the main man as the AM, and that makes perfect sense. He could still develop into a really top class midfielder in the next couple of years, which I agree with.

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, gdm said:

 

I just don’t think he scores enough goals and doesn’t even look likely too half the time tho I do appreciate the comments people were making about his link up play which is why I asked. I guess what I was asking is would people be happy if it turned our Ramos & JP were the two signings we made? 

 

I think if those were our two signings, I'd expect Ramos to start in an advanced role through the middle playing off Wilson, as I explained in a separate post.

 

It may well mean that we continue for the meantime with our current wide options, unless we bring someone else in on loan for that position as well.

 

I think Pedro will be an energetic young striker/wide forward that fills in multiple roles over the season off the bench and occasionally starting too.

 

Now he may well come in and look a much better option wide right than Almiron and end up making that position his own, sure. I think he has the talent to do so, but it's by no means a guarantee, or a slot that would be handed to him straight away I don't think.

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

The stats guy from the Toon Review channel (Alex) made a good point re Willock, he says he's still developing, we tend to forget we bought him as a 21 year old, and he's still learning to play a totally different way to what he was when he came here. He should be our back up from the bench rather than the main man as the AM, and that makes perfect sense. He could still develop into a really top class midfielder in the next couple of years, which I agree with.

 

I agree 100%.

 

I think he should be a rotational player for now. He's still young enough with plenty room to grow still.

[Happinesstan]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, I really have been disappointed by Willock so far. I thought that role would allow him to be the goal scoring threat he was when he first joined, but it hasn't quite clicked for him yet.

 

If Ramos did come in to start in that support striker role when we have the ball, as you say, it will give us more of a presence and goal threat in the box. It would be a slightly different way to add that, as I'm not sure we've been happy with the deals available for that wide right side of the pitch.

 

It might mean for the meantime that we don't then upgrade the wide positions, unless we bring someone in on loan there, which would be a strong possibility too, from the links we are seeing.

 

At Bournemouth Howe's two main catalysts for getting goals were Wilson and King, and the wide men were okayish i.e. the likes of Stanislas, Fraser, Ibe, Brooks etc. Having Wilson and Ramos would kind of mirror that approach more as our current wide men are somewhat similar.

When Bruno and Almiron linked up, against Forest, Willock seemed to get squeezed out to the right and could only attack the far post. We could do with Bruno and Almiron starting the play from deeper, like we saw last season.

Last season we often saw Bruno picking the ball up in his own box, with a full pitch in front of him. Against Forest we dominated, so it wasn't really going to happen, but against Brighton, our defence was mopping up and  playing out to him, in a more advanced position, which allowed Brighton's attackers to take him by surprise, from behind, on a couple of occasions.

I missed the majority of the second half so not sure how that developed. But we might need Bruno to be a little bit more disciplined, although it's more likely we need Willock to assert himself better, or buy better.

[KaKa]

8 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

When Bruno and Almiron linked up, against Forest, Willock seemed to get squeezed out to the right and could only attack the far post. We could do with Bruno and Almiron starting the play from deeper, like we saw last season.

Last season we often saw Bruno picking the ball up in his own box, with a full pitch in front of him. Against Forest we dominated, so it wasn't really going to happen, but against Brighton, our defence was mopping up and  playing out to him, in a more advanced position, which allowed Brighton's attackers to take him by surprise, from behind, on a couple of occasions.

I missed the majority of the second half so not sure how that developed. But we might need Bruno to be a little bit more disciplined, although it's more likely we need Willock to assert himself better, or buy better.

 

Yeah, there's still things to be figured out in our build up play through the middle of the pitch, but we'll get there, and should eventually settle on a better set up/approach.

[The College Dropout]

46 minutes ago, Scoot said:

A lot of people were questioning the signings of Burn and Targett and look how they've turned out for us (Chris Wood, i know). I understand people will question certain signings but for me I completely trust the manager and Ashworth in all of this. 

 

Whatever they go for I'm happy with as there's obviously a plan in place and we've seen how much Howe can improve players.

 

 

 

I like Burn and Targett. But they are midtable players.

[Krabbe2]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I like Burn and Targett. But they are midtable players.

Leicester won the series with Huth and Morgan as the centre-back pair. Yes, Targett and Burn have their limitations, but per today these are not the weak points in the team.

[54]

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I like Burn and Targett. But they are midtable players.

How do we know players are limited in there own "mid-table" bracket until they are pushed to be higher then what has been expected of them to date? Look at Robertson or Ake for instance for instance, both where considered mid-table to lower league players, until they where in an environment that pushed them to be the best they can be.

 

And even if they are "Mid-table" players, we still need a squad, and if our base level of squad player is "Mid-table" we're doing alright.

[LV]

2 hours ago, bowlingcrofty said:

If we get him and then one of the Chelsea lot on loan (Gallagher, CHO or Pulisic) then I’m pretty content with that as a window. 
 

I think we’ll have £50m or so for January and would like to think we’d use that one one main player for the team.

I wouldn’t get your hopes up about spending in January at all.

 

Stavely has already been quoted a few times saying January is not a window we will really look to do business in. 

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, Krabbe2 said:

Leicester won the series with Huth and Morgan as the centre-back pair. Yes, Targett and Burn have their limitations, but per today these are not the weak points in the team.

The what?

 

They did. But they were still midtable players.

 

That team had 3 genuine superstars in it and a lot of things went right for them to win the league.

 

6 minutes ago, 54 said:

How do we know players are limited in there own "mid-table" bracket until they are pushed to be higher then what has been expected of them to date? Look at Robertson or Ake for instance for instance, both where considered mid-table to lower league players, until they where in an environment that pushed them to be the best they can be.

 

And even if they are "Mid-table" players, we still need a squad, and if our base level of squad player is "Mid-table" we're doing alright.

Nathan Ake was a "wonderkid" He moved for £20m in 2017 as a CB - that was massive money then. By 25 he had a combined sales value of £60m. He's the same age as Targett. Robertson has surpassed all expectations but he was only 23 when he earned a move to Liverpool anyway.

 

Like yeh some players are better than you expect and reach heights you don't expect.

 

But at the ages of Targett and Burn. That is highly unlikely to happen. Burn in particular has already surpassed many expectations of him.

[SUPERTOON]

35 million would have gotten Harrison wouldn’t it ? Must really rate Pedro if the figures are correct of course.

[JonBez comesock]

8 minutes ago, LV said:

I wouldn’t get your hopes up about spending in January at all.

 

Stavely has already been quoted a few times saying January is not a window we will really look to do business in. 

Agreed and the fact the World Cup is happening means a lot of the decent players will be on public view to a huge audience and prices will sky rocket !

 

January window is there for teams really struggling looking for anything they can get their hands on 

 

We done well in January considering but as Staveley mentioned a few times not a window we really want to get involved in 

[McCormick]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

35 million would have gotten Harrison wouldn’t it ? Must really rate Pedro if the figures are correct of course.

They wanted 40+; which is tantamount to saying “we don’t want to sell”.

[Ikon]

Rejected.

[SUPERTOON]

 

[McCormick]

Story of the window, that.

[LV]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

If we sign Pedro, is the consensus that we won’t be signing Ramos too? 

Cant see it. Seems to have gone silent on that front. 

[LV]

1 hour ago, gdm said:

Would people be happy if it turns out Howe see’s JP as a starting wide forward for the wing position rather than a back up to Wilson? 

He’s both isn’t he? Coming as a ST/ winger option in both positions 

[SUPERTOON]

2 hours ago, bowlingcrofty said:

If we get him and then one of the Chelsea lot on loan (Gallagher, CHO or Pulisic) then I’m pretty content with that as a window. 
 

I think we’ll have £50m or so for January and would like to think we’d use that one one main player for the team.

Personally think if it was Pedro and CHO we would still be very short of attacking quality and goals this season.

[Jack27]

Martin Hardy reporting moves are progressing for both Pedro and Conor Gallagher 

 

 

[gdm]

8 minutes ago, LV said:

He’s both isn’t he? Coming as a ST/ winger option in both positions 

Yeah. That’s my fear tbh that it’s Joao Pedro and that’s our business done. 

Or Pedro to cover both positions and then a midfielder like Gallagher on loan 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by gdm

[Coffee_Johnny]

28 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I like Burn and Targett. But they are midtable players.

Not so sure myself. Whilst they’re unlikely to vie for places in anyone’s PL    team of the season, I wouldn’t see either as a liability for a top six side. I’ve picked out two seasons which demonstrate how getting the blend right can bring out more from the defensive group. 
 

We finished third (1993) with a combo/mixture of 4 from: Venison, Beresford, Scott, Watson, Robinson, Neilson, Howey and Peacock. Goals against 41 (82 scored; 42 played). 
 

And third again (2003) with: Hughes, O’Brien, Griffin, Bernard, Caldwell, Bramble, Dabidaz, Woodgate. Goals against 48 (63 scored). 

 

All listed pretty much in order of most appearances. I don’t see Burn and Targett as in anyway worse players than the majority above.