Garang Kuol (on loan at FC Volendam)

[leffe186]

Yeah, everyone overrates their own kids

[KaKa]

4 hours ago, leffe186 said:

There’s just so much luck involved though. We sent Dane Scarlett (good player, just scored three or four in two games for England U20s or some such) to Ipswich this season because they had a young manager who used to manage our kids and needed a centre-forward. They promptly bought another one, started the season better than expected and Scarlett barely got a kick.

 

Alfie Devine is a lovely midfielder who we loaned to Port Vale. Forced his way into the team and looked great. Plymouth wanted him and have another loan player of ours and a manager who used to coach them both for England. We thought it would be a better test for him in a solid mid-table team. Couple of months later they’re fighting relegation and the manager’s out.

 

There are tons more examples, even this year. I suspect it’s the same for everyone, we just don’t hear about other clubs. It feels like Chelsea and Arsenal have a lot of successful loans, but it’s probably just that they send a billion players out so law of averages says one or two will hit pay dirt.

 

I agree completely that some luck is involved for sure.

 

I'm not sure how much work goes into organising these loans, but I've always thought the role should be a very important one that requires a ton of work, with some serious analysis of the teams players are being sent to, what other options they have in the position your player features in, and agreement throughout the club they are being sent to, that the player is rated - from their recruitment guys, coaching staff, manager through to ownership. I think this would help things a lot.

 

I think a lot of these loans are based off of personal relationships with certain individuals at other clubs, like your examples referenced, and in those circumstances it's easy to see how things can go left when more people aren't as bought in.

[Coffee_Johnny]

On 09/04/2024 at 22:29, TheBrownBottle said:

Barcelona vs A-League XI.  Meaningless kick around.  The lad was extremely raw and wasn’t even a starter at CCM.  He should’ve been shipped to a lower league club to give him experience at a level where he’d get minutes.  Instead Ameobi sends him to the SPL and Eredivisie.  Absolute madness 

Is the Eredivisie such a bad choice?
 

Spoiler

Some think it is a ‘mint’ loan destination!

 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Is the Eredivisie such a bad choice?
 

  Hide contents

Some think it is a ‘mint’ loan destination!

 

It is if the player has basically never played a full 90 mins in a six month pro career.  Minteh’s develop was well beyond Kuol’s when they arrived

[The Prophet]

 

[La Parka]

He looks tiny there! 

 

Poor lad. 

[80]

Quote

Close to PSR limits, Newcastle also wanted to ensure that any potential loan clubs would cover Kuol’s wage cost.

That's an eye opening sentence. 

[The College Dropout]

On 10/04/2024 at 16:29, KaKa said:

 

I agree completely that some luck is involved for sure.

 

I'm not sure how much work goes into organising these loans, but I've always thought the role should be a very important one that requires a ton of work, with some serious analysis of the teams players are being sent to, what other options they have in the position your player features in, and agreement throughout the club they are being sent to, that the player is rated - from their recruitment guys, coaching staff, manager through to ownership. I think this would help things a lot.

 

I think a lot of these loans are based off of personal relationships with certain individuals at other clubs, like your examples referenced, and in those circumstances it's easy to see how things can go left when more people aren't as bought in.

This often isn't possible. especially as it's just a "loan".

 

Les Ferdinand spoke about this on the Overlap. Managers push for players all the time.

 

The best situation (for a loaning club) is to have "feeder clubs" or the multi-club model where there is control vertically. You will not get full buy-in any other way. 

 

Second bolded - i think this is true throughout football. Another Overlap reference - Carragher spoke to that Liverpool's Edwards some time ago. Asked him about what's the key to a successful transfer policy. His response was to the reasoning of "having the right relationships with agents"  

 

It's a poorly run club but I think that's the primary reason Barca have recently made Deco some type of Director. He was/is a football agent with A1 contacts across Portugal and Brazil. A large part of Madrid's recent success is picking up South Americans (Fede, Vini, Rodrygo etc.) and they have a particular guy (forget his name) who is plugged into that market with A1 relationships.

 

We are year 2/3 in this build. We have a long way to go to build the best loan system. City have their multi-club model. Roman bankrolled Vitesse on the low etc. This will take time.

 

Edit: There is also no planet Owners and leadership really want to do loans. Particularly of other clubs kids. They do it because it could get them some quality they would not otherwise have. Or to help with a short-term goal (survival, promotion etc.). If neither is on the cards, they won't want the player or to use him. Might as well use their own Lewis Miley.

 

 

Edited April 22 by The College Dropout

[Skeletor]

 

[KaKa]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

This often isn't possible. especially as it's just a "loan".

 

Les Ferdinand spoke about this on the Overlap. Managers push for players all the time.

 

The best situation (for a loaning club) is to have "feeder clubs" or the multi-club model where there is control vertically. You will not get full buy-in any other way. 

 

Second bolded - i think this is true throughout football. Another Overlap reference - Carragher spoke to that Liverpool's Edwards some time ago. Asked him about what's the key to a successful transfer policy. His response was to the reasoning of "having the right relationships with agents"  

 

It's a poorly run club but I think that's the primary reason Barca have recently made Deco some type of Director. He was/is a football agent with A1 contacts across Portugal and Brazil. A large part of Madrid's recent success is picking up South Americans (Fede, Vini, Rodrygo etc.) and they have a particular guy (forget his name) who is plugged into that market with A1 relationships.

 

We are year 2/3 in this build. We have a long way to go to build the best loan system. City have their multi-club model. Roman bankrolled Vitesse on the low etc. This will take time.

 

Edit: There is also no planet Owners and leadership really want to do loans. Particularly of other clubs kids. They do it because it could get them some quality they would not otherwise have. Or to help with a short-term goal (survival, promotion etc.). If neither is on the cards, they won't want the player or to use him. Might as well use their own Lewis Miley.

 

 

 

 

Loved the Les Ferdinand Overlap. Was really interesting actually. Thought he came across so well too. It's a tough gig for sure, as an up and coming DOF. So much to balance.

 

I find the loan thing somewhat irritating tbh. I wish managers would just have more of a plan and more trust in bringing youngsters through, or at least giving them a chance without them having had to go on loan somewhere first.

 

Kuol would have been better off staying and getting some sessions of training with the first team, and with all the injuries we had, maybe he gets a chance and rises to the occasion like Miley did. If not the training would at least have been at a higher level than he has had, and in the exact system and style we play.

 

 

 

Edited April 22 by KaKa

[Unbelievable]

Maybe he should have risen to the occasion in Scotland and Holland instead?

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Maybe he should have risen to the occasion in Scotland and Holland instead?

 

Well that's the problem. He's not their player. They're never going to have the same level of investment or commitment to the player.

 

If he's not going to play at these clubs then let him not play at Newcastle instead, and at least train against far better players and get better guidance and development.

[Unbelievable]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

Well that's the problem. He's not their player. They're never going to have the same level of investment or commitment to the player.

 

If he's not going to play at these clubs then let him not play at Newcastle instead, and at least train against far better players and get better guidance and development.

We didn’t know he wasn’t going to play much when we loaned him out did we?

[Weezertron]

1 hour ago, Unbelievable said:

We didn’t know he wasn’t going to play much when we loaned him out did we?

Shola's job to guarantee that, no?

[Jack27]

2 minutes ago, Weezertron said:

Shola's job to guarantee that, no?

the Athletic piece sounds like they found a decent club for Kuol but the turmoil scuppered that, not sure what else Shola could have done 

[CPL]

5 minutes ago, Weezertron said:

Shola's job to guarantee that, no?

Don't think any clubs can demand a player gets minutes. Having said that, Chelsea had a fee if Broja didn't get enough minutes for Fulham, which was quite clever.

[Unbelievable]

8 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

the Athletic piece sounds like they found a decent club for Kuol but the turmoil scuppered that, not sure what else Shola could have done 

Indeed, pretty much everybody who was at that club when the loan was agreed has since left. Besides, if Kuol was as good as we hope he’d have made a first team berth at Volendam his own. I can see an argument for letting him stay at Newcastle in the U21’s or something, but to think he could have played a role in out first team is quite fanciful based on the evidence of competitive games he’s played since moving here from Australia.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, Unbelievable said:

Indeed, pretty much everybody who was at that club when the loan was agreed has since left. Besides, if Kuol was as good as we hope he’d have made a first team berth at Volendam his own. I can see an argument for letting him stay at Newcastle in the U21’s or something, but to think he could have played a role in out first team is quite fanciful based on the evidence of competitive games he’s played since moving here from Australia.

 

I never said he would play a role in our first team!

 

I said he would get far more staying and training with the first team.

 

And if we had a bunch of injuries perhaps he could get game time. Or at least be on the bench to throw on for some minutes like we saw with some others this season.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

I'd keep him half a season then send him out in January based on what we think after viewing him.

[et tu brute]

11 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

I'd keep him half a season then send him out in January based on what we think after viewing him.

Yeah definitely, the coaches can have a proper look at him whilst he plays for the U23's getting regular game time. They will probably be able to make a decision on whether there is real potential during that time also. No point in having another season being on the bench most of the time.

 

 

Edited April 23 by et tu brute

[Optimistic Nut]

Just now, et tu brute said:

Yeah definitely, the coaches can have a proper look at him whilst he plays for the U23's getting regular game time. They will probably be able to make a decision on whether there is real potential during that time also. No point in having another season being on the bench most

of the time.

 

Aye, better to have an integration at Newcastle, play in a couple of pre-season games, play for the U21s, train with the first team squad, feel like a Newcastle player.

 

Who knows, it might all just click. Worst case, we've got a better assessment on where he is and where next for him. 

[Groundhog63]

12 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

I'd keep him half a season then send him out in January based on what we think after viewing him.

If we're being empathetic to a young lad who's had, for whatever reasons, a tough couple of seasons then bringing him back in house would be the correct thing to do. 

Show him he's not forgotten and get him back on track. 

[duo]

Sounds like he'll benefit more being a squad player next season

[Ikon]

19 minutes ago, duo said:

Sounds like he'll benefit more being a squad player next season

I think it seems pretty clear that he’s nowhere near good enough to be a squad player for us next season. But aye, he probably would benefit more from it compared to now.