Still not worthy of a thread

[leffe186]

On 29/05/2026 at 21:34, cubaricho said:

I’m watching this Vinnie Jones documentary and obviously he’s labeled a hard man rightfully so but as it was before my time I’m curious if he was actually a good footballer at the time?  

 

Some of the footage makes it look like he could actually play. 

It’s kind of difficult to describe to somebody who didn’t grow up with it - football has changed so much and the English game was somewhat different on top of that. If you look back at 70s gridiron and see some of the things that players routinely got away with then you’re getting some of the flavour.

 

I’m pretty sure there’s some documentary out there somewhere about the “Crazy Gang” and the 1988 FA Cup win that you might find enlightening. Wimbledon were a tiny club that came up from Non-League (outside the four divisions of the Football League) and some players were with them all the way. Vinnie Jones kind of epitomises them. They could play football but mainly were successful through organized thuggery and clever intimidation - particularly of refs.
 

The most angry I have ever been at a football match was Spurs-Wimbledon back in 1986. We had a great team that year and they had just come up, but the referee simply could not cope with them. They were kicking and elbowing Spurs players with complete impunity - I have never seen anything like it before or since. The ref completely abdicated responsibility. Finally Graham Roberts decided enough was enough and completely went through Lawrie Sanchez. Roberts got the red card as he was being stretchered off - he’d hurt himself in the process. I would have torn the referee limb from limb if I had got hold of him, and I was 13 years old.

 

Vinnie Jones played well for Leeds and other teams in CM and also played international football. As anybody who’s played football to a decent level will tell you, you have to be incredibly talented and driven just to play anywhere in the Football League. To play at the top level for a few years? Absolutely he was a good footballer. Just…he maximised his talents. He knew what he could and couldn’t do. And also, a lot of the things he did well that made him a success have been legislated out of football now. That Wimbledon team in 1986 would have been down to 7 men before 30 minutes had gone.

[duo]

Wolves deciding not to make the Vitinha loan permanent  

[Ben]

 

[duo]

[Menace]

I wish companies would fuck off trying to integrate gambling into every tweet

[Danh1]

 

[Rafalove]

 

[RobsonsWonderland]

2 hours ago, Rafalove said:

 

Imagine the players we would have lost to the game if this had always been the way.. no Giggle, Robert, Ben Arfas for us.

 

Would a young Harry Kane or even Messi be overlooked as they were too slow or too small when they were young? 

[TheBrownBottle]

On 30/05/2026 at 06:34, cubaricho said:

I’m watching this Vinnie Jones documentary and obviously he’s labeled a hard man rightfully so but as it was before my time I’m curious if he was actually a good footballer at the time?  

 

Some of the footage makes it look like he could actually play. 

He was a solid top division midfielder pre- and post-PL breakaway, which absolutely meant he could play.  He was decent enough.

 

He was decent enough crack tbf - anyone who was at SJP when he went in nets for Wimbledon could attest to that (and he wasn't that bad in goal really, even though we scored six that day).

 

The thuggishness was absolutely in his game - though most of that side during that period were the same.  He also wasn't as innately unlikeable as Dennis Wise, so there's that too.

 

I very much doubt he'd be a top flight player today, mind.

[Village Idiot]

8 hours ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Imagine the players we would have lost to the game if this had always been the way.. no Giggle, Robert, Ben Arfas for us.

 

Would a young Harry Kane or even Messi be overlooked as they were too slow or too small when they were young? 

 

This has been a trend for decades though? In the 1990s Guardiola had the athleticism of a gnat, but jump 10 years and both Xavi and Iniesta were already fitter and stronger (and nobody's going to think Xavi and Iniesta were physically strong players). 

 

Messi did bulk up considerably throughout his career too. 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:16 by Village Idiot

[gjohnson]

On 29/05/2026 at 21:34, cubaricho said:

I’m watching this Vinnie Jones documentary and obviously he’s labeled a hard man rightfully so but as it was before my time I’m curious if he was actually a good footballer at the time?  

 

Some of the footage makes it look like he could actually play. 

For the era he wasn't half bad. No superstar and the aggression certainly over shadowed his ability. Remove the tackling, testicle grabbing and general thuggery, id say he would be the 80s equivalent of someone like Mark Noble

[Tsunami]

Vinny was a disrupter, there to break up play and stop better players. He did it well under the way the game was ref’d at the time. This was in the 1st couple of minutes in the FA Cup final, not even a yellow card, barely a telling off. That type of officiating allowed Gazza to stay on the field and smash his knee up.  

 

[Fenham Mag]

1 hour ago, Tsunami said:

Vinny was a disrupter, there to break up play and stop better players. He did it well under the way the game was ref’d at the time. This was in the 1st couple of minutes in the FA Cup final, not even a yellow card, barely a telling off. That type of officiating allowed Gazza to stay on the field and smash his knee up.  

 

 

Would be the most blatant red card now

[leffe186]

42 minutes ago, Fenham Mag said:

 

Would be the most blatant red card now

If you get a chance, look at the Man City Spurs 1981 final. I actually can’t remember if it was in the first game or the replay, but the first thing Gerry Gow does is kick Ardiles miles up in the air. If it was today Gow would be back in the showers before Ardiles came back to Earth.

[Sima]

13 hours ago, Rafalove said:

 

 

Football is fucking dull now compared to around the turn of the century and before. Most are fucking robots at the expense of natural flair.

It's a greater problem with football being a global game now and there's been no bigger victim than international football.  In the 80s/90s you barely saw any footballers from other countries playing for your club and international tournaments were genuinely exciting to watch as you had all of the contrasting styles to look forward to. Whether it be the ruthless efficiency of the Germans, the catenaccio of the Italians, the total football of Holland, the samba flair of Brazil with their free kick ability or just the cynical cunts that made up the other South American nations outside of the individual brilliance of Argentina.

 

It's all a mishmash of the same shit now with the game totally saturated and consumed by capitalism.

 

[BlueStar]

 

[Nobody]

Shut the fuck up saints, you tried to cheat, got caught and punished. Tough luck. 

[Viana]

16 hours ago, Village Idiot said:

 

This has been a trend for decades though? In the 1990s Guardiola had the athleticism of a gnat, but jump 10 years and both Xavi and Iniesta were already fitter and stronger (and nobody's going to think Xavi and Iniesta were physically strong players). 

 

Messi did bulk up considerably throughout his career too. 

 

 

 

 

This is spot on. One of my favorite players is Carlos Valderrama. To his credit, he was said to be incredibly strong but he wasn't known for long dribbles or ball carrying (especially when he got older). The idea we'd lose someone with his intelligence and vision just for another Jordan Henderson makes me sad. 

 

I always loved what Johan Cruyff had to say about Guardiola the player. 

 

"I told Guardiola: You need to always take care of one thing. You need to have two midfielders close to you, and defend only your area in the field. You’ll be the best defender there is. Prevention is better than cure. If you don’t watch where they are, and they leave you alone, you are the one getting the punishment."

 

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

12 hours ago, Sima said:

 

Football is fucking dull now compared to around the turn of the century and before. Most are fucking robots at the expense of natural flair.

It's a greater problem with football being a global game now and there's been no bigger victim than international football.  In the 80s/90s you barely saw any footballers from other countries playing for your club and international tournaments were genuinely exciting to watch as you had all of the contrasting styles to look forward to. Whether it be the ruthless efficiency of the Germans, the catenaccio of the Italians, the total football of Holland, the samba flair of Brazil with their free kick ability or just the cynical cunts that made up the other South American nations outside of the individual brilliance of Argentina.

 

It's all a mishmash of the same shit now with the game totally saturated and consumed by capitalism.

 

This times 1000

[Conjo]

I feel footballs entertainment value is very cyclical. I know there's more to it than goals, but you just have to go back to the 23/24 season for the most goals scored during a 38 games top league season in England. If 23/24 didn't have that record, it would have been 24/25, then 22/23.

 

Right now we're in a boring meta, but very soon someone will find a solution to counter it and it will become better, maybe combined with rule changes wrt time allowed for set pieces, hopefully significant improvements in VAR usage etc. There's been multiple spells the last 20 years where it's been boring. I guess the main difference is that there's fewer truly unique players at the top level right now than earlier. Not beyond the realms of possibility that the counter to rigid systems ends up being unpredictability and flair and we could end up seeing quite exciting football and footballers sooner rather than later.

[sempuki]

18 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Vinny was a disrupter, there to break up play and stop better players. He did it well under the way the game was ref’d at the time. This was in the 1st couple of minutes in the FA Cup final, not even a yellow card, barely a telling off. That type of officiating allowed Gazza to stay on the field and smash his knee up.  

 

Remember him going in goal and doing quite well when they had a player sent off and no goalkeeper on the bench. Think we won 6-1.

[The Bonk]

On 30/05/2026 at 19:16, Rafalove said:

 

Don’t quite remember him as a footballer. But just thought I’d mention we had a player Billy Whitehurst who was even scarier.

 

Quote

I would say that 99.9% of stories said about me were about being a hard man and kicking people, elbowing people, biting people, doing whatever to people. I would always remember me and my mum watching Match Of The Day when I was growing up. My mum and dad (RIP) loved Bobby Charlton and they interviewed him after a game when we played Manchester United once when I was at Newcastle. He said: “I’ve come tonight to watch Paul Gascoigne and Peter Beardsley and the best player on the pitch by far was Billy Whitehurst.” It doesn’t get better than Bobby Charlton saying that.

 

I wore my heart on my sleeve and gave 120% each game, but there was a bit of skill and I could play a bit and them types of things are nice to hear now and again. I was just like the lads on the terraces, that’s why they all loved me – and I’d love 10 minutes against Rio Ferdinand.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/may/18/seven-deadly-sins-hard-man-billy-whitehurst

Had never heard of him! Thanks for the mention. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

I feel footballs entertainment value is very cyclical. I know there's more to it than goals, but you just have to go back to the 23/24 season for the most goals scored during a 38 games top league season in England. If 23/24 didn't have that record, it would have been 24/25, then 22/23.

 

Right now we're in a boring meta, but very soon someone will find a solution to counter it and it will become better, maybe combined with rule changes wrt time allowed for set pieces, hopefully significant improvements in VAR usage etc. There's been multiple spells the last 20 years where it's been boring. I guess the main difference is that there's fewer truly unique players at the top level right now than earlier. Not beyond the realms of possibility that the counter to rigid systems ends up being unpredictability and flair and we could end up seeing quite exciting football and footballers sooner rather than later.

Yeah, this is true.  It applies to football generally, but if applied to the English top division I’ve seen a few of these cycles at my advancing age.  
 

The solution to a footballing style is found and adapted quickly.  High pressing was the counter to ‘tiki-taka’ possession football - forcing opponents into mistakes.  Direct football is the counter to a high press.  And so on and so forth.  It’s happened throughout history.

 

We’re not close to the nadir in terms of style that I’ve seen - the early ‘90s were spectacularly grim.  Hoofball (and hoof the opposition), offside traps and the back passes.  

[TheBrownBottle]

10 minutes ago, The Bonk said:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/may/18/seven-deadly-sins-hard-man-billy-whitehurst

Had never heard of him! Thanks for the mention. 

Bobby Charlton must’ve been off his tits if he genuinely said that.  Whitehurst may be up there with our worst ever no.9s - a thoroughly mediocre player and a thug to boot.  I’m not sure our crowd loved him in the way he claims.

[Nucasol]

8 hours ago, BlueStar said:

 

They’re going to keep Eckhart aren’t they? The bent cunts.