Group B: England, Iran, United States, Wales (England and USA qualify)

[St. Maximin]

1 hour ago, Cronky said:

I've often felt that a residing weakness of the British approach to the game is that we rely too much on individuals creating something, rather than something happening from good combination play. That was the striking difference between the two teams on Friday. We seemed to be waiting for someone to produce a spark, which didn't happen. Sterling seems to be there for those hopeful moments when he uses his change of pace and direction to get past his marker. The Americans stopped him from getting the opportunity.

 

It was interesting to hear Southgate talk about the reasoning behind his substitutions. Grealish was on because he could hang on to the ball, perhaps draw fouls, and get us up the pitch where we could get some useful set pieces. Rashford was on for his pace. Foden's great strength is his ability to combine well with his team mates, with speed and accuracy, and despite being under pressure. That wasn't what Southgate seemed to value at that moment, and yet I did feel that he was missing the big picture. 

 

I guess if you play Foden, you really need players around him that can play in a similar way, which is the case at Man City. And I think that means a no to Sterling.

 

 

 

There’s also Mount, who has persistently offered very little for England in the Euros and WC so far. I like him - great player for Chelsea and clearly a good pro, but Southgate’s insistence on not even subbing him is weird. Even if you don’t want to start Foden as a CAM, he should be prepared to come on there. I can understand starting Sterling and Saka the other day after the Iran match. With all those poorly performing players though, it’s a shame Foden couldn’t be trusted to add something different. It’s clearly a sigh of Southgate’s weaknesses - don’t know how to manage one of your most talented players, so leave him out completely and stick with players he can ‘trust’ (ie often reliable but not normally effective). 

[triggs]

17 minutes ago, cubaricho said:

Which if y’all want to keep playing the “he’s out of form but, well, he plays well for England” card like y’all are doing for Pickford and Maguire and the like, then Sterling absolutely gets a start every time. He single-handidly kept y’all in the Euros. And yet y’all just shit on him constantly. 

 

 

 

Pickford and Maguire are still playing well for England though

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, cubaricho said:

Which if y’all want to keep playing the “he’s out of form but, well, he plays well for England” card like y’all are doing for Pickford and Maguire and the like, then Sterling absolutely gets a start every time. He single-handidly kept y’all in the Euros. And yet y’all just shit on him constantly. 

 

 

 

What needs to be remembered is that we don’t like a great many of these players and it doesn’t change when they happen to pull on an England shirt.  Dennis Wise wasn’t suddenly less loathsome when playing for England.  
 

Jordan Pickford is, and will always be, a short-armed Mackem wanker.  I don’t give a shite if suddenly starts playing like Gordon Banks. 

[Interpolic]

3 hours ago, triggs said:

Pickford and Maguire are still playing well for England though

 

Maguire was utter shit in the Germany game immediately before this tournament. He's been fine so far but if he drops a major rick we can't say we weren't warned. 

 

Sterling has been poor for club and country since the last Euros. Not sure why we're encouraged to ignore that when players in better form are sat on the bench. 

 

Pickford has been fine for both Everton and England for a while now, I support not taking unnecessary risks in that position. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Interpolic

[Cronky]

22 hours ago, Wullie said:

With England, there's always some weird clamour for one particular player. Was Grealish last time, now Foden. I think Foden's a phenomenal player but there's a sense he's very wedded, understandably, to the Man City system. He has never done it for England and it's understandable Southgate went first to players who have.

 

Would have been Maddison folk were moaning about last night if he'd been fit btw.

 

One thing I will say for Southgate is he does stick to his own ideas, and doesn't seem to be swayed by popular / media driven opinions about who to select. A lot of previous England managers have fallen into that trap. 

 

But then, there's still the issue of whether you as an individual think his judgement is right. 

[huss9]

the coach and players still pedalling the line that its extremely rare that a team wins all 3 group stage games.

they're still not getting it.

thats not what most supporters were livid about,

[huss9]

1 hour ago, Cronky said:

 

One thing I will say for Southgate is he does stick to his own ideas, and doesn't seem to be swayed by popular / media driven opinions about who to select. A lot of previous England managers have fallen into that trap. 

 

But then, there's still the issue of whether you as an individual think his judgement is right. 

being stubborn or inflexible or unwilling to take risks isnt always a potitive trait.

[JumpersForGoalposts]

1 hour ago, Cronky said:

 

One thing I will say for Southgate is he does stick to his own ideas, and doesn't seem to be swayed by popular / media driven opinions about who to select. A lot of previous England managers have fallen into that trap. 

 

But then, there's still the issue of whether you as an individual think his judgement is right. 

I think you're absolutely spot on. Southgate is not one for looking at evidence or making decisions based on what is happening on the pitch. The single most important thing for Gareth Souuthgate is Gareth Southgate and as long as Gareth Southgate thinks it's right, it doesn't matter whether it works or not.

 

He seems to believe his own hubris and it makes for some fucking painful to watch and highly ineffective football. But I'm only a fan, so my opinion isn't important. I'm not Gareth Southgate, so as far as he's concerned, my opinion is worthless, even if it is based on what has gone on during the match.

[Cronky]

1 hour ago, JumpersForGoalposts said:

I think you're absolutely spot on. Southgate is not one for looking at evidence or making decisions based on what is happening on the pitch. The single most important thing for Gareth Souuthgate is Gareth Southgate and as long as Gareth Southgate thinks it's right, it doesn't matter whether it works or not.

 

He seems to believe his own hubris and it makes for some fucking painful to watch and highly ineffective football. But I'm only a fan, so my opinion isn't important. I'm not Gareth Southgate, so as far as he's concerned, my opinion is worthless, even if it is based on what has gone on during the match.

 

The point I was wanting to make is that even if Southgate gets some decisions wrong, if he were to try to please public or media opinion by going with the flow, he'd end up in an even bigger mess. 

 

I'm intrigued by the fact that the mess we saw on Friday was one I've seen before with England teams, and many on here have had the same thought. We saw one group of players acting as a team, and another acting as individuals, seemingly without any collective confidence in what they were supposed to be doing. I watched with my spouse, and even though she only watches one football game every two years, she was able to identify that crucial difference. 

 

The remedy isn't for Southgate to start picking the fans' favourites. 

[ilikenewcastle]

2 hours ago, huss9 said:

the coach and players still pedalling the line that its extremely rare that a team wins all 3 group stage games.

they're still not getting it.

thats not what most supporters were livid about,

That annoys me. It's just some weird quirk, it's not essential to drop points in a game at least once and no excuse for playing for a draw v USA.

[Groundhog63]

As I've said. England's performance v the USA was peak England. Seen it constantly in group games. The rarity was the 6 goals v Iran. 

Perhaps that overly raised expectations. 

 

The way we play is limited and we don't use the strengths we have imho. 

We never build a team specifically around flair. Brooking, Hoddle, Currie (showing my age ?) 

 

One thing I noted during the commentary was the suggestion Southgate likes his back for "because they all get on" 

Nice ?

 

Oh and Grealish really is wank

 

[Shearergol]

2 hours ago, Groundhog63 said:

As I've said. England's performance v the USA was peak England. Seen it constantly in group games. The rarity was the 6 goals v Iran. 

Perhaps that overly raised expectations. 

 

The way we play is limited and we don't use the strengths we have imho. 

We never build a team specifically around flair. Brooking, Hoddle, Currie (showing my age ?) 

 

One thing I noted during the commentary was the suggestion Southgate likes his back for "because they all get on" 

Nice ?

 

Oh and Grealish really is wank

 

 

I personally thought Grealish was the only one trying to make things happen. I was about 9 pints deep by the time he came on though.

[samptime29]

I was fairly pissed for England/USA. Just remember it was shit but can't recall much more tbh.

[Kimbo]

Grealish always tries to make things happen, unfortunately it usually means running down blind alleys and losing the ball. I feel like you should only get away with that if you have good end product, which he doesn’t. He probably wouldn’t have even made my squad tbh.

[Groundhog63]

52 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

I personally thought Grealish was the only one trying to make things happen. I was about 9 pints deep by the time he came on though.

Tbf when the previous 70mins were so turgid he would look better. For me he looks good but does nothing but show pony. Vastly overrated 

[Interpolic]

25 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

Grealish always tries to make things happen, unfortunately it usually means running down blind alleys and losing the ball. I feel like you should only get away with that if you have good end product, which he doesn’t. He probably wouldn’t have even made my squad tbh.

 

His main strength these days is drawing fouls. May come in handy in tight games when we need set pieces tbf. Other than that he really seems to have been neutralised at Man City, it's disappointing. 

[gbandit]

Yeah, he’s become Jonas without the charm 

[TheBrownBottle]

Tifo on YouTube nailed it re Foden.  He’d start for Spain, but because he tries to make thing happen, this as a necessity means that he will occasionally lose possession.  This isn’t how Southgate wants to play, so he doesn’t start.

 

It is risk-averse football.  Yawn. 

[Deuce]

Carlos out here playing that reverse jinx, despicable.

[Likelylad]

Henderson due to replace Bellingham. It's almost funny at this point. 

[Pata]

54 minutes ago, Likelylad said:

Henderson due to replace Bellingham. It's almost funny at this point. 

[Consortium of one]

On 26/11/2022 at 14:15, cubaricho said:

Wilson pulls the whole team forward and brings the wingers/outside forwards into play, Kane drops back to DM and compresses the whole formation. You would’ve won yesterday with Wilson up front running at Ream and Zimmerman. 

 

 

 

Rooney used to like to play midfielder too.

[Doctor Zaius]

Fed up of Southgate like. 

 

Henderson in for Bellingham is laughable. 

 

 

[Shearergol]

Talk of Walker at RB with Trippier at left back too. Saka potentially being rested due to fatigue.

[Jaqen]

Probably switch to a back 5 in the knockouts if Walker is available then.