Harvey Barnes

[JEToon]

I am trying to say this without it sounding disingenuous, because he is a very good player, but he isn't top, top level, sort of evidenced by the role he has.  

 

A move to play every week would be a step back for him to a side likely closer to relegation more often than at the top of the table.  If he kicks about at us, he will play a lot, more so if we make Europe, he is likely going to be playing at least a games worth of football a week most weeks of the season if we make the Europa, and really more if we pick up even a couple of injuries.  It is going to be a better option than an Everton or Fulham for him I would expect.

 

I don't have concerns about him wanting an exit at all.  

 

 

Edited November 12 by JEToon

[HawK]

10 minutes ago, JEToon said:

I am trying to say this without it sounding disingenuous, because he is a very good player, but he isn't top, top level, sort of evidenced by the role he has.  

 

A move to play every week would be a step back for him to a side likely closer to relegation more often than at the top of the table.  If he kicks about at us, he will play a lot, more so if we make Europe, he is likely going to be playing at least a games worth of football a week most weeks of the season if we make the Europa, and really more if we pick up even a couple of injuries.  It is going to be a better option than an Everton or Fulham for him I would expect.

 

I don't have concerns about him wanting an exit at all.  

 

 

 

 

Not sure I agree with this - I believe he is a top player, but he's not got as much about him defensively as others who would play in his position at our club.

 

I believe one of the reasons Leicester went down with him, Maddison, Tielemans, Vardy etc. is that team had no defensive backbone and too many offensive players.

 

There's definitely room for a Harvey Barnes in most sides in the league I think, as long as there's other players who can carry him defensively.

 

I believe Howe just wants to drill that defensive mentality into him as well so he becomes part of our machine.

[JEToon]

23 minutes ago, HawK said:

 

Not sure I agree with this - I believe he is a top player, but he's not got as much about him defensively as others who would play in his position at our club.

 

I believe one of the reasons Leicester went down with him, Maddison, Tielemans, Vardy etc. is that team had no defensive backbone and too many offensive players.

 

There's definitely room for a Harvey Barnes in most sides in the league I think, as long as there's other players who can carry him defensively.

 

I believe Howe just wants to drill that defensive mentality into him as well so he becomes part of our machine.

 

I agree with that, he would play for most sides in the league, but I am not sold that would be appealing enough for him to move v what he currently has and could have with us.

 

In terms of being a genuinely top level player and I mean this with the best will in the world and I am glad we got him, but, he was entirely gettable for other clubs in the league, the sides likely to be in CL places, and they didn’t take him.

 

If he left us tomorrow, I wouldn’t expect him to go to City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, or, sniggers, Man U for 101 reasons including managers of those sides, signing policy etc and so on and the players those sides already have.

He is now closing in on 27 he isn’t a project player anymore, he hasn’t made a breakthrough at international level and is as close to playing for Scotland as he is to making the England squad.

 

He is a very, very good player, but I would expect any move away from us for him would be a slight step back in terms of what we can offer him in terms of competing at the higher end of the league.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12 by JEToon

[Nine]

I’m not sure it’s him being defensively lacking, although he’s not as effective as a Joe or Gordon he can still execute that role.

 

I just think it’s that he’s simply suited to games where we see a lot of attacks in transition, most of his goals that come to mind are from that scenario. It’s why he’s a super sub for games like that at the weekend. 
 

Hes just very direct and he always wants to cut in and shoot and he’s very good at that, I think he would have been incredibly effective in our 22/23 season for example.

 

 

Edited November 12 by Nine

[Gallowgate Toon]

I think Barnes and Isak in the frontline is weaker on the defensive front than Howe wants - very capable athletes but not exactly pressing monsters. With our press, I think you can slightly 'carry' one man. I'm pretty sure it's just because we need to manage Isak's legs more due to Wilson being paper, but he's not the presser he was when he came back from injury in 22/23. 

 

 

Edited November 12 by Gallowgate Toon

[Mikky]

Barnes’ best role is where Willock is at the moment - somewhere in the central point of a LWF, LCM and 10 with Big Joe as your LM - gives us a lot of balance - something I suggested as a tactical tweak about 2/3 weeks ago with Tonali as 6 and Bruno as 8 and not playing in a straight 3 in mid

[David Edgar]

Wish we had a winger with this lad's ability who could start on the left. Oh.

[Doctor Zaius]

Looks good cutting inside when coming on for the last half hour against tired legs.

 

Otherwise....

[TRon]

He's a one trick pony unfortunately. We should sell this summer while we can get our money back.

[Lush Vlad]

Much like with Tonali. It is hard to form a proper opinion on him and if he should be starting. As we only ever see him for half an hour or so. Then when he does start, he is often hauled, sometimes rightly so. Sometimes it seems like it’s the easy choice. He’s never been afforded a run of games from the start. 

 

Not sure he really suits Howe’s high pressing style and he won’t cover the left back the same way Gordon or Joelinton/Willock do. But he does bring more FRET. 

 

 

[Kanj]

I’m perfectly fine with him on the bench. It’d be nice if he could reinvent himself as a withdrawn striker or play right side or something. You almost feel Barnes running in behind thru balls or playing off of Isak or Wilson would be good for him. He has really good close control, a decent short passing game and the ability to pop off shots. 

[JEToon]

It probably sounds harsh but it’s the level he is at so should be judged on this as such, I think the second goal showed that he isn’t top level, he is an excellent squad player with use to come on and stretch broken games as he does that so well but there is a pass on when we were on the attack that was there all day and splits West Ham in bits and what he produced was miles off it, just booted it at West Ham and turned us over.

 

He just lacks that real top end quality on the ball I think

[Keggy_Keagal]

Great in stretched games on the counter, especially if Gordon's knackered the full back out. As a starter he doesn't offer enough. Barnes needs space to run or cut into to . Otherwise he's a bit of a non entity . Doesn't really take people on , doesn't get in behind, doesn't have an incisive pass on him. I'd sell and reinvest the money if the offer was right.  Otherwise I don't see him starting especially with the pressure etc that Eddie wants.  

[Lush Vlad]

I thought he actually looked ok on the right? Not like he had a good game or anything. But he was our best attacking player. Incredibly low bar to clear, mind  

 

I feel like with an actual striker on the pitch. He might have had an assist. I reckon we would have had a shot, at least. 

[80]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

I thought he actually looked ok on the right? Not like he had a good game or anything. But he was our best attacking player. Incredibly low bar to clear, mind  

 

I feel like with an actual striker on the pitch. He might have had an assist. I reckon we would have had a shot, at least. 

Thought he was let down quite a lot yesterday by his teammates, particularly Tino. Wasn't a golden performance, as you say, but there were several occasions where he executed good ideas but they weren't read or quickly got fumbled by others.

[Lush Vlad]

5 minutes ago, 80 said:

Thought he was let down quite a lot yesterday by his teammates, particularly Tino. Wasn't a golden performance, as you say, but there were several occasions where he executed good ideas but they weren't read or quickly got fumbled by others.

Yep. The same story all over the park. Not sure who it was who said about the partnerships we have built up in this team and it’s what made us so good and now it seems lacking. That was evident yesterday. A lot of miscommunication with who is doing what, where the pass is going, what run to make etc.

 

I’d like to chalk it up to a bad day at the office. But it’s becoming too regular now.  

[r0cafella]

2 hours ago, 80 said:

Thought he was let down quite a lot yesterday by his teammates, particularly Tino. Wasn't a golden performance, as you say, but there were several occasions where he executed good ideas but they weren't read or quickly got fumbled by others.

Don't think he was let down by Tino whom we know is a wingback who stays wide. He was let down by the manager who's tactic seems to revert to crossing the ball to nobody when we are struggling. Harvey Barnes is not a right winger Period. 

[80]

3 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Don't think he was let down by Tino whom we know is a wingback who stays wide. He was let down by the manager who's tactic seems to revert to crossing the ball to nobody when we are struggling. Harvey Barnes is not a right winger Period. 

It's obviously not his best spot, but I thought he did quite a respectable job on the offensive side. He didn't look totally out of place. Don't get me wrong, I've been banging the RW/our attack is going down the swanny drum for what feels like an eternity.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, 80 said:

It's obviously not his best spot, but I thought he did quite a respectable job on the offensive side. He didn't look totally out of place. Don't get me wrong, I've been banging the RW/our attack is going down the swanny drum for what feels like an eternity.

He did his best for sure, he put one decent cross in that's about all I remember. 

 

Barnes excels at cutting inside from the left, you take that away and you aren't left with much. 

[80]

8 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

He did his best for sure, he put one decent cross in that's about all I remember. 

 

Barnes excels at cutting inside from the left, you take that away and you aren't left with much. 

I can't remember specifics too well because it was that kind of match for us, but there was definitely more than that.

 

There were a couple of times I was surprised to see it was him doing certain things like shimmying past a defender. But a lot of his positive stuff in build up play was killed in the crib by teammates just not making the runs for balls he knocked through or them immediately passing the ball straight to the opposition. I thought he cut a frustrated figure yesterday - he looked particularly pissed off midway through the second half after there were two fuck ups in a row.

 

 

Edited December 1 by 80

[OverThere]

If we can get our money back and buy a RW I'd be more than happy 

[Danh1]

 

People called out Mitchell for his comments on our strategy but this makes sense. 
 

 

 

Edited December 4 by Danh1

[mattypnufc]

I can't say I'd blame them.  He's an impact sub and pretty much surplus to requirements the majority of the time. 

[Paully]

I still can't get my head around the signing - I like him but we had spent a similar amount on Gordon the year before plus the Joe's can do a job there and we were desperate for a RW

 

 

Edited December 4 by Paully

[nufcjmc]

If we had Europe we would need him and there are other dross in the side I would prefer to shift first if only people would buy them but he's not pulling up trees when he starts and is older than gordan so I can see it being a sacrifice to move forward.