Marc Guehi

[Keegans Export]

1 minute ago, Interpolic said:

ffs 

[mattypnufc]

Missed off FPL expert. 

[54]

I don't know if it's just a me thing, as admittedly it could be, as generally I can never be assed with reading long post after long post. 

 

But I swear every thread has become tedious recently, what should be exciting threads just has all of it blown out by what seems like the same people going round and round have a point scoring debate that never seems to have a natural end point.

 

This would be such an exciting signing, but it feels like that buzz has just died completely due to the above happening.

 

Like I said it could just be a me thing, as someone who likes to be positive in basically most things in life, and looks at things in an exciting manner, and try not to get bogged down in details, so I hold my hands up if that's the case, but things like this thread are just draining.

[Kid Icarus]

Good god, that's an assassination 

[simonsays]

Haha - one of the best things I've ever seen on here, that! 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Very harsh but admittedly funny

[54]

7 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

Fucking hell

[Mahoneys Tache]

This kind of statistical shit is how we ended up with the dark days of route 1 football. 
all of you go and watch Brazil 1970 until you’re suitably ashamed of yourselves. 

[mondonewc]

Just a passing comment, but 10+ people all jumping on the same person, whether he's induced or not, seems a bit too much of a personal attack, humiliating, or whatever you want to call it. 

Confirmed proud snowflake but just seems a bit much... oh, and fingers crossed we get this deal done. 
 

[Interpolic]

1 minute ago, mondonewc said:

Just a passing comment, but 10+ people all jumping on the same person, whether he's induced or not, seems a bit too much of a personal attack, humiliating, or whatever you want to call it. 

Confirmed proud snowflake but just seems a bit much... oh, and fingers crossed we get this deal done. 
 

 

Tbh I agree in many ways, I'd usually say the same but I agree completely with what 54 says above. 

 

This should be a fun time to support the club, outside of this forum it really is, but the same old posters are making this place a crap experience and putting a tedious, relentless downer on everything. 

 

There'll always be backlash to that. 

[gdm]

18 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

nothing against TCD but that is outstanding

[The College Dropout]

26 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

@The College Dropout

 

These are the two bits that lead to our whole discussion.

 

In the second post you said if he was so great at passing and carrying the ball - it would be more evident in the stats. You've since clarified that you meant progressive passing.

 

Now personally, from watching him play he is excellent on the ball, passes it really well and not just side to side either, and carries it out from the back really well too.

 

Your argument is that his stats are not comparable to Andersen's or Schar's in these areas, and so he isn't that good at these things.

 

I don't necessarily see it that way. Because Andersen is a better passer and they play through him more, this by no means takes away from Guehi's abilities. However, it will affect his stats though, as he will not need to take the initiative as much in that area. As I also mentioned a lot of these stats came during Hodgson ball too, where in general it wasn't very progressive play from the back, so again less opportunity.

 

Regarding not carrying the ball as much and bringing it out more. I would imagine in a partnership with Andersen, who is less mobile, Guehi is more likely to be tasked with covering, with Andersen bringing the ball out more often.

 

I just think watching him play within the Palace team, you can see he doesn't lack in these areas, and there's a lot more that goes into all of this.

 

And so just firing off all these stats isn't enough for me.

 

 

 

 

So you’ve agreed. I never said he was bad at passing. But you said I did. I mentioned progressive passing twice and bad passing 0. Please stop twisting my words in the future. Ta. 
 

Ive agreed with you that he has the potential to be excellent at carrying the ball forward. He does it well now but he doesn’t do it to the level Schar (or Anderson) but that might be tactical as you say. I think he has the ability. He didn’t do it loads for England either but I would expect Howe to bring it out more. 
 

From what I’ve seen of him at Palace and England, and the stats. He looks super composed, good with his feet, tidy passer, quick. And not to mention a leader and a good egg. For me - for our team - at £60m I would hope for more physical dominance or  aggression and/or more impact on the ball. I’ve not seen that to date. Doesnt mean it’s not possible or other things are more important or that I’ve missed it. 
 

For £60m I would hope for a level above or the potential to be a level above Schar/Botman. I personally dont see it. You do.  Cool. Agree to disagree and hope you’re right. 

[madras]

36 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You are 100% right and I’m not suggesting ‘aerial win %’ or progressive passing is the be all and end all. 
 

I tend to start these posts ‘I think’ because it’s my opinion not a fact.  I’ve said numerous times, heading might not be all that important. He could get better at it. There’s lots of other factors into the signing and I might be over emphasising the elements that I like the look of from a defender. 
 

I find people want to argue my opinion.  They think my opinion is wrong eg he is worth £60m therefore everything I’m saying is wrong and has no merit. Then if I show merit (stats) just mock it - stats are boring, stats are wrong etc.

 

I think Tarie is a WUM. But I’ve fully accepted that Guehi’s pace is a significant advantage to us as they’ve mentioned. Once we replace Pope we would have a back 5 that’s tremendously comfortable on the ball. These things might be game changers for us. I don’t dismiss other people’s genuine ideas. 

 

It's using the broadest stats though to try and come over scientific. Aerials won ? Does that mean  clean headers away ? Ones where he's won the header but it dropped straight to a forward ? Is an aerial duel a draw if the defender is 2nd favourite but does enough stop the forward getting a clean header ? Andy Carrolls stats at Liverpool for winning headers outside the box must've been great but he had no idea where they were going and mostly benefited the defending team. 

 

Passing accuracy etc over what distance, what phase of play, teams with different styles of play will produce CBs for example who will produce differing stats even if the CBs had exactly the same skill sets.

 

Add to this the pro analysts ete test will consist of hundreds of gour of footage from more angles than we have access to.

 

The one stat I do like, particularly for defenders (and I've forgot the name given to it) is that of the amount of opposition players taken out the game by a pass. I think in time Lewis Hall (who I'm still wary of defensivly) will absolutely kill that stat.

[Lush Vlad]

There’s been a murder  

[mondonewc]

6 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Tbh I agree in many ways, I'd usually say the same but I agree completely with what 54 says above. 

 

This should be a fun time to support the club, outside of this forum it really is, but the same old posters are making this place a crap experience and putting a tedious, relentless downer on everything. 

 

There'll always be backlash to that. 

I'm not targetting anyone with my message, just as a group felt a bit much. Personally, if I thought someone was being a dickhead or spoiling a thread and I cared enough to want to call them out for it would probably think the best way to address it would be to send them a PM and point it out to them that way, as I think calling someone out publically in a forum setting is never going to have much value as people usually get super defensive and just attack back as they feel attacked themself. 

Anyways, said my two penneth, carry on as you were all Enjoy your Saturday's! 

[Dokko]

31 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

A forum moment right there.😂 evil Bastard.

[Hanshithispantz]

32 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

Holy shit 

[Kid Icarus]

Interpolic on Photoshop like this, knowing what the reaction will be 

 

 

 

Edited August 3 by Kid Icarus

[Scoot]

39 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Brutal!

[hakka]

44 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

I actually quite like TCD's posts, regardless if I agree with them, but that's a damn headshot of a post.

[RodneyCisse]

48 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

[TRon]

Come on lads, the forum needs TCD to remind everyone else how surface level their football knowledge is.

[KaKa]

20 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

So you’ve agreed. I never said he was bad at passing. But you said I did. I mentioned progressive passing twice and bad passing 0. Please stop twisting my words in the future. Ta. 
 

Ive agreed with you that he has the potential to be excellent at carrying the ball forward. He does it well now but he doesn’t do it to the level Schar (or Anderson) but that might be tactical as you say. I think he has the ability. He didn’t do it loads for England either but I would expect Howe to bring it out more. 
 

From what I’ve seen of him at Palace and England, and the stats. He looks super composed, good with his feet, tidy passer, quick. And not to mention a leader and a good egg. For me - for our team - at £60m I would hope for more physical dominance or  aggression and/or more impact on the ball. I’ve not seen that to date. Doesnt mean it’s not possible or other things are more important or that I’ve missed it. 
 

For £60m I would hope for a level above or the potential to be a level above Schar/Botman. I personally dont see it. You do.  Cool. Agree to disagree and hope you’re right. 

 

It wasn't an intentional move to make you look bad, but a simple oversight.

 

I could add in the word 'progressive' and my overall point still stands as I explained in my last post. 

 

The stats aren't enough to define him as not being a progressive passer. Not at all.

 

I've seen him play the ball forward and between the lines too often to know this just isn't true. I've explained how other factors would influence the stats.

 

And so yeah, agree to do disagree.

[loki679]

TCD isn't wrong, like.  £65m+ is a lot of money for him, I'd be expecting an elite CB for that and Guehi isn't that yet.  If we can do this and still get a top RW in then crack on but if we're looking at another season of the Miggy and Murphy show to get this done then I'd rather not.

[duo]

1 minute ago, loki679 said:

TCD isn't wrong, like.  £65m+ is a lot of money for him, I'd be expecting an elite CB for that and Guehi isn't that yet.  If we can do this and still get a top RW in then crack on but if we're looking at another season of the Miggy and Murphy show to get this done then I'd rather not.

£65m for an established England International, who is only 24 is fair market imo.  He could be our CB for a decade.  I can't see any negatives from this deal.