Our future, Howe vs Mitchell

[Groundhog63]

6 hours ago, Conjo said:

This is probably the dumbest fucking shit I've seen on here in a long time. Craig Hope playing KI like a fiddle.

This with bells on

 

 

Wankest thread on here, ever. 

[Nowhere Man]

I’m annoyed with both of them underperforming..

 

[andycap]

Team Mitchell for me managers come and go at big clubs howe may have hit his ceiling in terms of tactical approach and can't get much more out of them. 

Mitchell should be able to make us competitive with his contacts and cheaper alternatives to help us with the psr problem. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Sack them both, bring in Dennis Wise and Steve Bruce I reckon

[Groundhog63]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Sack them both, bring in Dennis Wise and Steve Bruce I reckon

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

I always suspected Howe would only be able to take us so far and I get the feeling he's close to that now, desperately hope I'm wrong but that's just my gut feeling.

 

I still chose Howe over Mitchell though because I don't trust Mitchell or Eales one bit and the jury is still out.

[Thumbheed]

9 minutes ago, Tiotes Witch Doctor said:

I always suspected Howe would only be able to take us so far and I get the feeling he's close to that now, desperately hope I'm wrong but that's just my gut feeling.

 

I still chose Howe over Mitchell though because I don't trust Mitchell or Eales one bit and the jury is still out.

 

Surely you can only judge how far he can take us when he's got the tools to take us as far as possible? 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Expunge this thread from the records please. 

[mighty__mag]

7 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

Solid fan fiction. GRRM could use some help finishing Game of Thrones.

 

It was a bit of a piss take, after several beers and watching the boxing last night 

 

I'm trying to sabotage Craig Hopes fiction with my own version of made up events, 

 

How could anyone on here know what goes on behind the scenes.

 

However, like some don't trust Mitchell,or, have drawn their own opinion of him already, with Darren Eales I'm not convinced either, think long term, he 'could' be our issue.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

My distrust for Mitchell and my feeling that something isn't right began with the transfer window debacle and Mitchell's interview tbf.

 

Hope and the media are irrelevant AFAIC. 

 

 

 

 

Your feelings might be right, but the transfer window debacle could be blamed on either, depending on whether Howe was willing to accept a lesser CB than Gueyhi. Mitchell's interview could have been more diplomatic, but then so could Howe's when asked about staying at Newcastle once Staveley and Mehrdad went.

 

Point being, there will need to be more than a feeling to make any decision either way. Howe was always going to be judged on this season after failing to qualify for Europe last time round, he wouldn't be judged on that campaign because he was hamstrung by squad deficiencies.

 

Mitchell will be judged on his player recruitment, I doubt anyone is going to fire him after barely getting his feet under the table. Unless Eales has got it massively wrong and there's questions over him which is a bigger issue.

[Shak]

I'm not sure how I feel, honestly.

 

Mitchell has made about as bad a first impression as possible. Achieved nothing in his first transfer window and hasn't seemingly done a good job at all at developing a good relationship with his manager.

 

That said, I do think that the best way for us to grow and consistently challenge at the top is to have someone whose strengths are what Mitchell is expected bring to the table in terms of recruitment.

 

I'm a little disappointed that Howe seems to be unwilling to adapt to the new situation, too. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I've been told by a few people that he's a control freak and wants to essentially be in charge of everything from a footballing perspective. He seems like a bright and driven guy, he should surely be smart enough to see that if he wants to manage at a really top club he's gonna have to make some compromises?

 

It's unfortunate, because on paper I think they should make a cracking pair. Mitchell recruiting behind the scenes, Eddie taking the players he has and getting the best out of them on the pitch.

 

There's still hope, but we know Eddie is very stubborn and there's been nothing at all I've seen from Mitchell that gives me any confidence at all that he's gonna bring it all together and build trust between them.

 

There's only one way it ends, though. There's just no way PIF choose Howe over Mitchell if they can't co-exist.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Why does Howe seem unwilling to adapt? 
 

He’s not Sam Allardyce like, he’s a young and intelligent manager. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:03 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Skeletor]

37 minutes ago, Shak said:

I'm not sure how I feel, honestly.

 

Mitchell has made about as bad a first impression as possible. Achieved nothing in his first transfer window and hasn't seemingly done a good job at all at developing a good relationship with his manager.

 

That said, I do think that the best way for us to grow and consistently challenge at the top is to have someone whose strengths are what Mitchell is expected bring to the table in terms of recruitment.

 

I'm a little disappointed that Howe seems to be unwilling to adapt to the new situation, too. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I've been told by a few people that he's a control freak and wants to essentially be in charge of everything from a footballing perspective. He seems like a bright and driven guy, he should surely be smart enough to see that if he wants to manage at a really top club he's gonna have to make some compromises?

 

It's unfortunate, because on paper I think they should make a cracking pair. Mitchell recruiting behind the scenes, Eddie taking the players he has and getting the best out of them on the pitch.

 

There's still hope, but we know Eddie is very stubborn and there's been nothing at all I've seen from Mitchell that gives me any confidence at all that he's gonna bring it all together and build trust between them.

 

There's only one way it ends, though. There's just no way PIF choose Howe over Mitchell if they can't co-exist.

 

This for me. It may be trauma, but I get deja vu from when things went majorly sour under the Ashley regime with a director of football that seems to undermine everything, a poor transfer window and the eventual ousting of the manager. Its purely based on gut feeling but the vibes feel very bad around the club at the moment and it all seems to have started with Amanda/Mehrdad leaving and Mitchell coming in.

[Abacus]

Person wise, it's got to be Howe every time for what he brings on and off the pitch, what he has done for us and how he fostered a collective spirit and, up until recently, a style of play. Mitchell so far has done nothing, but hasn't had much of a chance to.

 

If it's about the role though, do you trust a DoF model or a manager led model, I can see why many/most would be opting for the former.

 

But even that kind of relies on a series of assumptions - the first being that they establish a long term footballing vision and that everyone else is then a replaceable part of it. I'm just guessing that's why anyone who has voted for Mitchell has gone that way - not on what he's done for us, but on the principle of how it should work ideally.

 

For what it's worth though, I can see why that model should work but it doesn't always. Especially if a DoF doesn't stick around that long and a new one comes in with their own different 'vision'. I think that vision actually has to come from the owners, not any employee, as they are there longer and I'm not sure what ours is other than a stated desire to be the best and win stuff. Which is quite vague.

 

I also think if you look at some of the best managers over the last few decades, they have basically not just been a coach told to stick to what they're best at, but involved at all levels of decision making. I'm not convinced many of the best and most successful ones would have put up with it any other way.

 

Yes, I'm told that football has changed. But has it? How many fully DoF led clubs have been that successful compared to the number that are out there?

 

Most successful club recently being Man City, and yes there's been huge money there, but also under Pep who they'd have bent over backwards to accommodate and played a canny game in only extending his contracts when he wanted to and felt the conditions were right to stay.

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, Shak said:

 

I'm a little disappointed that Howe seems to be unwilling to adapt to the new situation, too. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I've been told by a few people that he's a control freak and wants to essentially be in charge of everything from a footballing perspective. He seems like a bright and driven guy, he should surely be smart enough to see that if he wants to manage at a really top club he's gonna have to make some compromises?

 

I mean ... this is just so disappointing really. The Bournemouth guy on here said the same thing about Howe after we got him initially.

[hakka]

How on earth do we pick an answer? I haven't got a clue how Mitchell can genuinely improve us. Howe has improved us, but this is a loaded low moment performance wise and after last seasons injury shitfest, it feels like it's am unfair moment to ask this.

[TRon]

3 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

This is an 'if it comes down to it' poll. No room for centrism splitting the vote in the football section.

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to vote on it anyway. I prefer the DoF approach, but I know far more about Howe than I do about Mitchell.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

6 minutes ago, hakka said:

How on earth do we pick an answer? I haven't got a clue how Mitchell can genuinely improve us. Howe has improved us, but this is a loaded low moment performance wise and after last seasons injury shitfest, it feels like it's am unfair moment to ask this.

It’s an embarrassing thread and we should be better than this. 

[Unbelievable]

Ridiculous thread/poll. If Howe can only work with overpriced, PL proven players he’ll hold us back sooner rather than later. Under FFP we will need to be very sensible in the transfer market, selling and buying in the right markets and the right price range. I have complete trust in Howe to make this work with whomever the SD responsible for recruitment is. If he’s unwilling to work in that structure I’d back the structure over him. Ultimately our owners and their vision are far more crucial for this club’s future than any player’s or manager’s ability.

[cubaricho]

The press won’t shut the fuck up about all this if we don’t shut up first. 

[Scoot]

2 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

Ridiculous thread/poll. If Howe can only work with overpriced, PL proven players he’ll hold us back sooner rather than later. Under FFP we will need to be very sensible in the transfer market, selling and buying in the right markets and the right price range. I have complete trust in Howe to make this work with whomever the SD responsible for recruitment is. If he’s unwilling to work in that structure I’d back the structure over him. Ultimately our owners and their vision are far more crucial for this club’s future than any player’s or manager’s ability.

 

I picked Howe over Mitchell but the bit in bold here is the most important bit. I'd choose the club's vision over both if it came down to it.

[Kid Icarus]

5 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s an embarrassing thread and we should be better than this. 

 

[OpenC]

Newcastle Online rattled at light being shone on internal dramas  it's a fair question imo, and worthy of discussion, and might keep the same sort of chat away from the Eddie Howe thread, which can then be used for what it's supposed to be for, either complaining that he's driving the players into the ground so they're injured all the time, or complaining that he's not working them hard enough so they're flabby and unable to do 90 minutes

[The College Dropout]

19 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Sounds dramatic but just getting in there first and curious about the general feeling.

 

Edit: saying as some don't like the wording. Of course 'they'll work together' is an option I'd imagine the overwhelming majority would choose, but in the interests of not splitting the vote this is very much an 'if it comes down to it' poll.

 

I don't see the harm in seeing what the temperature is, considering this discussion is already happening and has been for a while in the Howe and Mitchell threads.

 

 

 

That would be Howe vs the rest of the leadership team.  And that’s only going to end one way.  
 

Mitchell was appointed by everyone in situ. Howe wasn’t. Firing Mitchell would mean they all made a mistake.  Firing Howe could be positioned as ending the first phase. 

[huss9]

bit RTG, this thread.