Ranking our Squad - 21 Livramento

[Sibierski]

Slam dunk A. Think he literally can play for any team in world. Probably not Real because of Mbappe, but every other side yes. Like Pep would love him over Haaland.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Only downside is that most of his best strikes are offside

[Yorkie]

When it comes to strikers - maybe goalkeepers too - I think the most straightforward route to making an assessment is comparing them to their peers. Isak might not be 99 for every single attribute but he's literally the best striker in the league so he's clearly an A, imo. He's scored plenty of headed goals and holds it up well too. What foot he scores with isn't any meaningful metric, is it? Wasn't for Shearer anyway ("make your left foot good, but make your right foot brilliant.")

 

His dribbling, finishing and quickness of thought are all as good as you're ever likely to see from a striker on a football pitch today. If you told me he was the best striker in the world I'd believe you. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Salah gets praise for failed left foot passes that would easier and more likely to succeed if he could use the right. 

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Troll said:

 

I don't disagree he's made Murphy look better, but you can look at it the other way, and imagine how much easier Isak's job would be with someone like Salah feeding him.  It's no surprise Haaland's numbers have dropped since KDB started to decline.

Yeah it's tricky I guess because Murphy's still outperforming the better players in our team. Gordon, Bruno, Tonali, are all nearer to Isak's quality than Murphy is but aren't linking up with him as well as Murphy does. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

3 hours ago, LFEE said:

Poor at holding the ball up. Struggles to last 90mins, seems like his race is run after 70mins. Also struggles to be available for a full season so lacks durability. Question marks over his left foot finishing and bravery to put head where it hurts to score when it matters.

 

Other than that he’s excellent. So guessing that works out at a B.

 

 

 

[Joe1984]

2 hours ago, Nobody said:

S, if Japanese video games had taught be anything. 

Well, they didn't teach you proper grammar... 😅

 

Oh and Isak is A for me, obviously.

 

 

Edited Friday at 12:24 by Joe1984

[LFEE]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

Given how I criticised his signing at the time as being too expensive, it benefits me to not call him elite, however saying he isn't is insane to me.

 

@LFEE Out of curiosity, if he's not an elite striker for you, who in modern football is, if anyone?

Strikers… CR and Benzema are in the elite category for me from the last generation. Kane previously also and despite my concerns of his legs going he’s doing his best to prove he’s still in that bracket even if I think he’s fell out of it.

 

I don’t watch loads of football but happy to discuss the merits of each individual player who anyone thinks is an elite striker but not sure there’s many this generation.

 

If it makes my fellow NUFC fans on here happier as you are so precious about it I’d only rate Mbappe a B if that helps with perspective. Of the players linked to replace him I’ve not seen enough of Delap or David but I don’t rate Sesko the times I’ve watched him as a striker. No doubt has maybe the aspects Isak is missing without having the ones that Isak does.

 

@SteV Messi is just under 20% of his goals with his RF. Drops (13%) if you add penalties and free kicks which I personally don’t count in such a judgement. *

 

Still awaiting anyone to pull apart my balance scouting report 🤷🏼‍♂️ Think the mistake people are making is assuming every era has to have elite players. There can be cycles when there’s a lot of players below that level who are still excellent.
 

 

*Blame Google if wrong.

[gbandit]

But his dribbling is better than any other striker in the game right now, he’s also got excellent vision. He can strike a ball better than almost everyone as well. He’s an A by general standards and by today’s standards as well. How often do you find strikers that have his ability on the ball?

[Nepharite]

We are a one man team, we don't perform when he doesn't. We don't win when he doesn't play..... A+

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Strikers… CR and Benzema are in the elite category for me from the last generation. Kane previously also and despite my concerns of his legs going he’s doing his best to prove he’s still in that bracket even if I think he’s fell out of it.

 

I don’t watch loads of football but happy to discuss the merits of each individual player who anyone thinks is an elite striker but not sure there’s many this generation.

 

If it makes my fellow NUFC fans on here happier as you are so precious about it I’d only rate Mbappe a B if that helps with perspective. Of the players linked to replace him I’ve not seen enough of Delap or David but I don’t rate Sesko the times I’ve watched him as a striker. No doubt has maybe the aspects Isak is missing without having the ones that Isak does.

 

@SteV Messi is just under 20% of his goals with his RF. Drops (13%) if you add penalties and free kicks which I personally don’t count in such a judgement. *

 

Still awaiting anyone to pull apart my balance scouting report 🤷🏼‍♂️ Think the mistake people are making is assuming every era has to have elite players. There can be cycles when there’s a lot of players below that level who are still excellent.
 

 

*Blame Google if wrong.

 

So you are judging by all time great standards rather than contemporary strikers playing today. Not the same thing.

 

Also you used metrics like left/right foot, bravery, holding the ball up etc. While these are all great to have, it is ignoring stuff like vision, finishing instinct, pace, dribbling ability, insane first touch etc. Some of those abilities are so far above his peers that they are killer features in themselves. He has made the PL's top defenders like Saliba and VVD look helpless whereas some of those who hold the ball up better wouldn't get a kick.

[Mattoon]

Quickest and easiest rating of them all, by far our best player in any position and its not even close, he is elite and would walk into any team.

 

Isak has everything, positional awareness, quick feet and brain, dribbling, passing, speed, acceleration, change of direction and pace, left foot, right foot, head, he is just immense.

 

Easiest A ever.

[LFEE]

10 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

So you are judging by all time great standards rather than contemporary strikers playing today. Not the same thing.

 

Also you used metrics like left/right foot, bravery, holding the ball up etc. While these are all great to have, it is ignoring stuff like vision, finishing instinct, pace, dribbling ability, insane first touch etc. Some of those abilities are so far above his peers that they are killer features in themselves. He has made the PL's top defenders like Saliba and VVD look helpless whereas some of those who hold the ball up better wouldn't get a kick.

I think if you are throwing the word Elite around and any team in the world then yes I’m judging by high standards. Probably add Lebandowski to my list also.

 

The players I mention can do both. That’s why I think they are elite. If you think VVD and Saliba would pocket the four I’ve mentioned then so be it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Kane has never been complete though, he’s slow and can’t dribble. 

[LFEE]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Kane has never been complete though, he’s slow and can’t dribble. 

Is that to me?
 

Didn’t used to be slow. Never mentioned dribbling a requirement once in any of my posts but he could twist and turn enough to get the killer shot through a defenders legs which beat the GK over and over again.

 

Dribbling more important for wingers in which at times he looks better suited at against certain opponents coming in from wide.

 

Been wondering if EH pulls a rabbit out the hat and plays him LW with Wilson CF in the final. It’s a game we definitely need to win in 90mins. We ain’t got the squad for ET & Pens unfortunately.

[OCOCOL]

16 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Is that to me?
 

Didn’t used to be slow. Never mentioned dribbling a requirement once in any of my posts but he could twist and turn enough to get the killer shot through a defenders legs which beat the GK over and over again.

 

Dribbling more important for wingers in which at times he looks better suited at against certain opponents coming in from wide.

 

Been wondering if EH pulls a rabbit out the hat and plays him LW with Wilson CF in the final. It’s a game we definitely need to win in 90mins. We ain’t got the squad for ET & Pens unfortunately.

 Your last para that’s what I’d do fwiw 

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

Says 3 of his 50 PL goals are with his left. 7 headed. 

 

It's obviously an asset to have two strong feet, but if you're scoring the goals he does with his right it doesn't really matter. He gets ludicrous power with side-foot shots.

He's also super at shifting it quickly and seamlessly on to his right on the run.

[Andy]

1 hour ago, LFEE said:

Strikers… CR and Benzema are in the elite category for me from the last generation. Kane previously also and despite my concerns of his legs going he’s doing his best to prove he’s still in that bracket even if I think he’s fell out of it.

 

I don’t watch loads of football but happy to discuss the merits of each individual player who anyone thinks is an elite striker but not sure there’s many this generation.

 

If it makes my fellow NUFC fans on here happier as you are so precious about it I’d only rate Mbappe a B if that helps with perspective. Of the players linked to replace him I’ve not seen enough of Delap or David but I don’t rate Sesko the times I’ve watched him as a striker. No doubt has maybe the aspects Isak is missing without having the ones that Isak does.

 

@SteV Messi is just under 20% of his goals with his RF. Drops (13%) if you add penalties and free kicks which I personally don’t count in such a judgement. *

 

Still awaiting anyone to pull apart my balance scouting report 🤷🏼‍♂️ Think the mistake people are making is assuming every era has to have elite players. There can be cycles when there’s a lot of players below that level who are still excellent.
 

 

*Blame Google if wrong.

 

If you're going by the metric of the thread, A is "World Class, could play for any team in the world", not "once in a generation elite talent". Isak definitely fits the former description. So does Mbappe. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

3 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

What was Messi's right foot to left foot goals ratio?

 

83.5% Left foot

12.6% Right foot

3.3% Head

Then there's 4 goals gone down as other body parts

[Paully]

I missed the first lot so here are mine (PS - I'm dishing no drugs out so D is the lowest score)!

 

A - World class. Could play for any team in the world.

B - One of the best in their position. Would get game time for most teams but they're a level below the elite.

C - Solid PL starter. A team consisting entirely of Cs should be comfortable in the PL but wouldn't challenge for the top places.

D - PL squad filler. Everyone needs a squad. These are the players who can help with rotation and backup but you wouldn't want them starting too often.

E - Not good enough either by virtue of general ability or being past their prime.

 

Grades

 

8. Tonali - A-

 

4. Botman - B

10. Gordon - B

 

7. Joelinton - B-

 

11. Barnes - C

 

2. Trippier - C

5. Schar - C

 

1. Dubravka - A+ (C!)

 

13. Targett - D

 

6. Lascelles - D 

 

9. Wilson - D

 

14 Isak A+

 

[Sibierski]

58 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Kane has never been complete though, he’s slow and can’t dribble. 

He’s not a dribbler in conventional sense of travelling with ball past opponents for 20 yards, but he’s very good at going past opponents with ball over 5 yards, and that’s what you need as a striker.

 

Kane is as complete striker you can get in modern game. 

[GEFAFWISP]

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, LFEE said:

Is that to me?
 

Didn’t used to be slow. Never mentioned dribbling a requirement once in any of my posts but he could twist and turn enough to get the killer shot through a defenders legs which beat the GK over and over again.

 

Dribbling more important for wingers in which at times he looks better suited at against certain opponents coming in from wide.

 

Been wondering if EH pulls a rabbit out the hat and plays him LW with Wilson CF in the final. It’s a game we definitely need to win in 90mins. We ain’t got the squad for ET & Pens unfortunately.

If Howe plays Isak LW and pushes Wilson to CF for a final then I will start calling for his head.

 

Isak isn’t a winger, he’s a centre forward.  Don’t know why there are people in the support who’d happily take one of the best centre forwards on the planet and drop him out of position because he doesn’t look like a Nat Lofthouse type centre forward.  It’s crackers. 

[LFEE]

33 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

If Howe plays Isak LW and pushes Wilson to CF for a final then I will start calling for his head.

 

Isak isn’t a winger, he’s a centre forward.  Don’t know why there are people in the support who’d happily take one of the best centre forwards on the planet and drop him out of position because he doesn’t look like a Nat Lofthouse type centre forward.  It’s crackers. 

It’s about finding a way to win in 90mins. We’ve never done that against Liverpool with Isak CF home or away. Obviously not laying the blame on that decision but ultimately we’ve played really well against them last two out three home games and lost two and scrambled a draw. Away they’ve cruised to two comfortable wins and a lucky one. Maybe it’s time to try or at least start with something Liverpool aren’t expecting due to our limited options. Defensively RB is Liverpool’s weak spot if they go as predicted.

 

Pre Gordon a lot of our best attacking performances have been with both Isak and Wilson starting.

 

Hit them hard and fast then lock the door and give the crowd something to get behind is the only way I see us winning.

 

Although disappointing for Hall I’d of picked Tino LB v Salah and make it a 10v10 game.

 

 

Edited Friday at 14:52 by LFEE

[Lush Vlad]

How many times have Isak and Wilson started together? I’d hazard a guess at not many. I remember games where they’ve ended up on the pitch together. Either as a 2, Isak left or just behind Wilson. But that has usually been off the bench, from memory? Fulham home, Brentford away, Everton away and the final all spring to mind. 
 

As for not beating Liverpool with Isak up front. What sort of argument is that  He has scored 3 goals against them and had one ruled out for a ridiculous offside. He also got VVD sent off playing up top and is just about the only striker in the league who regularly worries him. The same can be said for the supposed best CB pairing in the league at Arsenal. 

 

How many times have we beat Liverpool in the Prem era? Not really sure what relevance there is between not beating them of late and Isak playing up front. I fail to see the correlation?