Nick Woltemade

[AJ9]

Spurs were successful(ish) with Kane dropping deep mind, I think there will be other examples of teams that had a system that operated similarly but admittedly not a lot.

 

Berbatov in Spurs/Man U?

[joeyt]

29 minutes ago, Holloway said:

Sacrificing the team is a bit dramatic like. If you listen to Eddie talking about it,the shape hasn't changed much, Nick has dropped back into an attacking mid role. The question I suppose is what happens when Bruno comes back, but that's some eay off 

 

He's playing in the 8 role where we've played Willock, Ramsey and Joelinton. We haven't created a new role for Nick, he's just been put into another position within our existing system

 

The question is why have we spent a record amount of money on a player who doesn't suit us as a striker nor do we play with a number 10.

 

 

[joeyt]

19 minutes ago, AJ9 said:

Spurs were successful(ish) with Kane dropping deep mind, I think there will be other examples of teams that had a system that operated similarly but admittedly not a lot.

 

Berbatov in Spurs/Man U?

 

I get the point but that's because Harry Kane was and still is incredible

[The College Dropout]

55 minutes ago, TheEntertainer said:

Woltemade isn't technically gifted? I'm all for the criticism about him being too slow and weak for the prem and the way we play and not really having a role in our team, but to claim he's not technically gifted is just wrong. His entire game is nice touches, quick feet, flicks and cute passes. Sure he's not Zidane, but he's definitely a technician. 

Not to me - no. He's good technically, sure. In some regards so is Harry Wilson or a Sylvan Marveaux down a level. But gifted? I think of Berbatov or better.

 

46 minutes ago, Menace said:

He's essentially a more polished Zirkzee let's be honest 

Wolte is better but yeh.. Zirkzee has a nice touch, feet and weight of pass. He has ability but is he gifted? Nope.

 

He's closer to Zirkzee than Berbatov ability wise. Talented but he's not been at the level of Di Maria or Veron like someone else referenced.

 

I still like him and think he can be a success here. But he needs to use his body better. I don't think he's so exceptional with his feet that he's worth having around just for that in any position. He's 24 but not tremendously experienced. Still learning.

[Holloway]

2 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

He's playing in the 8 role where we've played Willock, Ramsey and Joelinton. We haven't created a new role for Nick, he's just been put into another position within our existing system

 

The question is why have we spent a record amount of money on a player who doesn't suit us as a striker nor do we play with a number 10.

 

 

Yeah I know where he's playing,as an attacking mid, Eddie is calling it a deep lying striker,who am I to argue. Maybe he is looking to nudge us in a slightly different direction, we're hardly sacrificing our whole team/ style,that's hysteria 

[TBG]

Shows how far we've come when we're looking at binning off Germanys first choice striker because we're too good for them. 

[MagPar]

You'd think by the comments of some on here that wolf is the ONLY PLAYER struggling at times. He's not, loads of players have let us down this season.

 

He's a big talented lad that has done better than I expected considering his age, his first season in England and the pressure of having that transfer fee attached to him. Never mind the fact that he was thrown in straight away (having not trained with us) instead of being eased in while EPL proven Wissa 'banged the goals in'. 

 

 Give him a semi full pre-season (it'll be shorter due to WC, get him bulked up a bit and then we can see what he does next season. The own goal winner against our most hated rivals clearly knocked his confidence, but let's not forget his early season goals that won us games and some of his class finishes, even his league penalty blew us away. He also needs our other forwards and attacking midfielders to get on his wavelength, then they'll benefit from his sublime touches and lay offs.

 

He's a completely different player than the rat and I certainly haven't given up on him. If he can perform well in the WC then that will thoroughly boost his confidence. 

 

Have a little faith in the young man. 

[LFEE]

43 minutes ago, AJ9 said:

Spurs were successful(ish) with Kane dropping deep mind, I think there will be other examples of teams that had a system that operated similarly but admittedly not a lot.

 

Berbatov in Spurs/Man U?

 

I’d argue the deeper he dropped each season the less successful the “team” was each season.

 

Kane as an individual looked better. That is however the point I’ve always argued with Nick & NUFC. I’ll die on the hill that results aside our best performances have been with AG10 as the CF. Starting at Villa away first game of the season and I’m not even a fan of seeing AG10 deployed to take our biggest chances.

[KaKa]

At Stuttgart he mostly played off another striker that made runs in behind, and when he shone in the under 21 tournament it was mostly the same sort of setup when he played off another striker.

 

I think Howe had also wanted a more versatile forward that can play off a more traditional forward, so they can be paired together at times. He typically had that at Bournemouth, where he mostly played them as a tandem.

 

Woltemade will be fine. He's having to drop deeper at the minute because we are missing Bruno, and so progressing the ball forward from the back is more difficult and he has to play more of a part in that.

 

I think we'll eventually see him push further forward and play closer to the striker even if he's still technically starting in the left sided 8 position. Longer term, I'm sure we'll also still sometimes see him start as the lone forward, but with some adjustments with the other players around him to make that work better, which they haven't been able to work on as much this season.

 

In the summer, the plan should be to move Osula on, and bring in a more viable option to challenge Wissa, that is more of the traditional striker that typically works in Howe's Newcastle setup.

[Andy]

1 hour ago, AJ9 said:

Spurs were successful(ish) with Kane dropping deep mind, I think there will be other examples of teams that had a system that operated similarly but admittedly not a lot.

 

Berbatov in Spurs/Man U?

 

The difference being that Kane is world class and justified building a team and system around. 

 

Based on what I've seen so far, we shouldn't be building a team and system around Nick. 

[LFEE]

23 minutes ago, KaKa said:

At Stuttgart he mostly played off another striker that made runs in behind, and when he shone in the under 21 tournament it was mostly the same sort of setup when he played off another striker.

 

I think Howe had also wanted a more versatile forward that can play off a more traditional forward, so they can be paired together at times. He typically had that at Bournemouth, where he mostly played them as a tandem.

 

Woltemade will be fine. He's having to drop deeper at the minute because we are missing Bruno, and so progressing the ball forward from the back is more difficult and he has to play more of a part in that.

 

I think we'll eventually see him push further forward and play closer to the striker even if he's still technically starting in the left sided 8 position. Longer term, I'm sure we'll also still sometimes see him start as the lone forward, but with some adjustments with the other players around him to make that work better, which they haven't been able to work on as much this season.

 

In the summer, the plan should be to move Osula on, and bring in a more viable option to challenge Wissa, that is more of the traditional striker that typically works in Howe's Newcastle setup.

Always think it’s an exaggeration he shone in the U21’s. Didn’t get a kick when he faced more physical and quicker English defence in the final IMO which was the truer test for this league. They met in the group stages and Nick didn’t play and Germany faired better and won that one. Scored in other games but the two I saw and against Italy I wasn’t impressed.

 

Anyway. Hope he does well and he finds a position in the team that works.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Top scorer in the tournament. Six goals in five games. Joint top assister (3). Exaggeration to say he shone. 

 

 

Edited February 25 by Shays Given Tim Flowers

[Infinitely Content]

My thoughts on Woltemade are that he's so lacking physically that he needs to be exceptional technically to compensate, and he's just not from what I've seen. 

I'm having to really stretch my imagination to see how it works out here for both him and us as a team.

[Keggy_Keagal]

We're a very physical team he's not had a pre season with Howe to adjust to the tactics and the physicality of our league . Was also a last minute signing and we hadn't considered properly how to integrate him into the team and are doing so on the fly in a demanding Champions League season. He's not a natural goalscorer he doesn't posses those instincts, you can see it in his positioning.  He's an intelligent player and can be taught how to be a better forward and will be interesting to see if that's the case. If  he's been bought to be the goalscorer, we need to cash in in the summer and hopefully recoup. If he's been bought to change how we play and improve the side by playing off the striker or as 10 then I have complete faith in the manager to sort that out. 

[Nine]

2 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

He's playing in the 8 role where we've played Willock, Ramsey and Joelinton. We haven't created a new role for Nick, he's just been put into another position within our existing system

 

The question is why have we spent a record amount of money on a player who doesn't suit us as a striker nor do we play with a number 10.

 

 

He doesn’t fit but only so far.. we have to assume he was signed with an eye to evolving the system and incorporating a #10/SS. It’s the only way it really makes sense, and we Howe is no slouch when it comes to identifying the right player for the right role. 
 

Of course we might have expected him to adapt better as a 9, but he just doesn’t possess that physical edge needed. Hes just does not possess natural striker instincts. 
 

He’d be a fine striker in any other league I think but that doesn’t count for much here. I’ve always said on here that he can play anywhere centrally, but #10 is his role. 

 

 

Edited February 25 by Nine

[Smal]

 

I think we've seen earlier in the season that his technical ceiling is actually very high. His touch and the weight of his passing was genuinely top level. Since mid/late November his form has not really been there. Confidence (being rotated out of the team, some poor games, sunderland og, missing a pen, being reffed unfairly) is something that we need to get back into him. 

[Infinitely Content]

2 hours ago, Keggy_Keagal said:

We're a very physical team he's not had a pre season with Howe to adjust to the tactics and the physicality of our league . Was also a last minute signing and we hadn't considered properly how to integrate him into the team and are doing so on the fly in a demanding Champions League season. He's not a natural goalscorer he doesn't posses those instincts, you can see it in his positioning.  He's an intelligent player and can be taught how to be a better forward and will be interesting to see if that's the case. If  he's been bought to be the goalscorer, we need to cash in in the summer and hopefully recoup. If he's been bought to change how we play and improve the side by playing off the striker or as 10 then I have complete faith in the manager to sort that out. 

Probably worth bearing in mind that he also likely won't have much of a pre-season with us next season either given he will be with Germany at the World Cup potentially going fairly deep into the tournament.

[samptime29]

Tbf if he ends up with 13-14 goals its not a disaster. Think some people are going a bit OTT. Plenty to work on of course, not saying there aren't issues. Clearly a talented player. Might be that he clicks in 2nd season. 

[Zero]

5 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

I get the point but that's because Harry Kane was and still is incredible

Does anyone remember the Harry Kane before his breakout season 2014/15?

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Zero said:

Does anyone remember the Harry Kane before his breakout season 2014/15?

He was 21 that season - he’d just broken into the first team at the very end of the previous season.  He scored 30 goals that year.  He was past 200 top level goals (excluding internationals) by the time he was Woltemade’s age.  They aren’t even in the same ballpark as one another - Kane was a far, far better player (never mind goalscorer) than Woltemade was at the same age.  Certainly no-one was talking about how young Harry Kane was in 2017.

 

It isn’t a fair comparison, but if folks are going to make it then Woltemade is not going to come near.  

 

 

Edited February 25 by TheBrownBottle

[Zero]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

He was 21 that season - he’d just broken into the first team at the very end of the previous season.  He scored 30 goals that year.  He was past 200 top level goals (excluding internationals) by the time he was Woltemade’s age.  They aren’t even in the same ballpark as one another - Kane was a far, far better player (never mind goalscorer) than Woltemade was at the same age.  Certainly no-one was talking about how young Harry Kane was in 2017.

 

It isn’t a fair comparison, but if folks are going to make it then Woltemade is not going to come near.  

 

 

 

No. I ain’t comparing them in the same age, I am comparing them re the top level games played.

 

Kane has been labelled fucking shit weak as piss slow as a cow etc re his first season. It’s when Pochettino arrived and help polished Kanes game that change the history.

It’s always the top level game experience that matters most for technical type of players. I still don’t understand why so many people here write Nick off just probably his 2nd season as a striker and 1st in EPL where he already scored 10 goals with 3 months left.
 

Re the last summer transfer, in EPL, Woltemade was regarded as the second best striker just next to Ekitike, better then the likes of Joao Pedro, Delap and Sesko. He is the undisputed starting ST for Germany for the upcoming World Cup, and likely will keep his position for the next ten years. People saying he isn’t as good as the likes of Berbatov or Ibra, without realizing that both players were one of the best in history and currently in the world there is no striker under 25 that can do what Woltemade can do as a ST.

 

And NO is the only place in the world that keep on saying this player has no future as a ST. He should be sold asap. What a shit transfer etc 

 

I mean, guys, please, all my friends are laughing at us now. They were jealous 3 months ago that we got such a gem. And now they are laughing at our impatience. And I kinda agree with them. This is fucking ridiculous 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Zero

[Weezertron]

We’ve got about 10 senior players that I keep reading need a pre-season. 
 

This isnt about Nick, and not to over simplify it but does every team in the league have players who are shit all season cause they missed a preseason?

[Conjo]

3 hours ago, Infinitely Content said:

Probably worth bearing in mind that he also likely won't have much of a pre-season with us next season either given he will be with Germany at the World Cup potentially going fairly deep into the tournament.

 

Giving a lot of credit there to the poorest german national team we've seen the last 20-25 years.

[TheBrownBottle]

54 minutes ago, Zero said:

No. I ain’t comparing them in the same age, I am comparing them re the top level games played.

 

Kane has been labelled fucking shit weak as piss slow as a cow etc re his first season. It’s when Pochettino arrived and help polished Kanes game that change the history.

It’s always the top level game experience that matters most for technical type of players. I still don’t understand why so many people here write Nick off just probably his 2nd season as a striker and 1st in EPL where he already scored 10 goals with 3 months left.
 

Re the last summer transfer, in EPL, Woltemade was regarded as the second best striker just next to Ekitike, better then the likes of Joao Pedro, Delap and Sesko. He is the undisputed starting ST for Germany for the upcoming World Cup, and likely will keep his position for the next ten years. People saying he isn’t as good as the likes of Berbatov or Ibra, without realizing that both players were one of the best in history and currently in the world there is no striker under 25 that can do what Woltemade can do as a ST.

 

And NO is the only place in the world that keep on saying this player has no future as a ST. He should be sold asap. What a shit transfer etc 

 

I mean, guys, please, all my friends are laughing at us now. They were jealous 3 months ago that we got such a gem. And now they are laughing at our impatience. And I kinda agree with them. This is fucking ridiculous 

 

 

 

In fairness your mates are unlikely to actually be watching all of our games like we are.  I’m sure seeing YouTube clips of him scoring with every touch seemed impressive - but we’ve actually seen this before in English football with players coming out of the traps and fading relatively quickly (Yeboah, Cisse etc).  
 

I give less than two shites about which country a player plays for - being Germany’s no.9 is meaningless if Germany aren’t much cop (and they’re not). Playing up top for Germany is not an indication that he’s a Gerd Muller regen.  Not sure where and when he was regarded as the second best summer CF transfer.

 

There’s plenty of time for him to come good, and hopefully he does.  But to deny that there are indications that he won’t is to deny the evidence of our eyes.  He isn’t doing the basics, and having the odd nice touch doesn’t make him Bergkamp reincarnate either.  He needs to show a hell of a lot more than he has at present - it’s not about goals to me (though they help) but the fact he isn’t really contributing or busting a gut to get goals that is a problem.  We don’t play with a SS so I don’t know what the lad is meant to do if he isn’t going to be any use as a CF - and we sure as shit shouldn’t be paying club record fees for yet another midfielder when he wouldn’t be one of the best three if everyone is fit. 

[TheBrownBottle]

34 minutes ago, Weezertron said:

We’ve got about 10 senior players that I keep reading need a pre-season. 
 

This isnt about Nick, and not to over simplify it but does every team in the league have players who are shit all season cause they missed a preseason?

The ‘it’s a WC year and they haven’t had a proper preseason’ excuses are already being drafted for next season