If not Howe, then who?

[Robster]

Out of nowhere, had a friend (Liverpool fan sadly) just ask me what I thought of the Mourinho rumour.

Social media and the rumour mill is clearly doing it's work to make this an actual thing.

Strap in Team Howe Out

[NUFC91]

1 hour ago, LFEE said:

Then focus on the slightly over hit pass from Barnes to Nic which would’ve made it 1-2 and a tactical masterclass with both subs coming on and combining to win the game  Also don’t get so concerned about being 14th in a season when we are still only 6 points from 6th! Just been one of those seasons in the league. It happens. It’s football. If it happens in the league again next season he’ll no doubt walk himself.

 

Let’s shift those who want to be away. Bring in players who want to be here and try again 26/27.

 

 

 

Football isn't about ifs and buts, its about results and we got beat by a weakened palace, if that theory is right they hit the bar and had better chances?

 

My point is though I'm backing Eddie to get us into the summer and rebuild but people expressing how they concerned about our form aren't fickle or entitled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by NUFC91

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

The Bournemouth fan who sometimes gets on here (cherryred) posted pretty much the same summary. He loved Eddie to bits as much as we do, but he also highlighted where things went wrong.

 

I can't be arsed to dig it out again cos I've copy n pasted it a few times, but it is eerily familiar.

 

 

 

 

Funnily enough, I was looking on a Bournemouth forum (because i'm a total loser) and they were complaining, back when he managed them, that he only ever played 4-4-2. And then they broke from that formation for one game, got a result and then he went back to 4-4-2.

 

I'd kill for a bit of 4-4-2 right now  

[PauloGeordio]

7 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Funnily enough, I was looking on a Bournemouth forum (because i'm a total loser) and they were complaining, back when he managed them, that he only ever played 4-4-2. And then they broke from that formation for one game, got a result and then he went back to 4-4-2.

 

I'd kill for a bit of 4-4-2 right now  

So would Big Wolte and the Wiss.

[Curva Sud Milano]

Mourinho would be the worst thing that could happen to you...that said, I'd like to explain why I went from being absolutely pro-Howe to hoping he leaves:

 

1) Many of you are attached to Howe because, in addition to being an extremely pleasant person, he was certainly a good coach and helped you reach goals you hadn't seen in a long time, but thinking he should stay for life out of gratitude is always wrong, especially when, like this season, he gets almost everything wrong.

2) For me Howe is English football from the '80s, intensity and physicality and nothing else...and I don't mean that in a negative sense because I loved English football from those years, and everything is fine when you have a season like last year; but when you struggle like this year, his solutions have been ZERO...it's not that he tried to change anything and failed, he just didn't try to do it.

3) The 4-3-3 is your cancer, I said it in October and I'm even more convinced now. Those very few times Howe changed the system, the wingers were still present and the wingers are your weakest point.

4) You yourselves told me (I was skeptical) that, perhaps apart from Woltemade, the rest of the new signings were definitely chosen or approved by Howe...nothing else to add here.

5) Very often, we criticize a coach for his lineup choices, which is purely subjective ; I wouldn't even let someone like Elanga play in the Italian Serie B but Howe sees him every day in training, and I don't...so I'm probably wrong and he's right. Other times, the criticisms are objective and no reason in the world can justify certain choices. Three examples:

a) February, you're playing every three days between the league, cup, and the Champions League, you win 6-1 against Qarabag, and in the return match at home you field the best possible lineup??? (never seen in 45 years of football).

b) Last game, you're a goal down and with 30 seconds to end you make two substitutions? (never seen in 45 years).

c) Imagine Guardiola playing Haaland in midfield !! That's the only thing Howe has tried to change this season is... putting Wolte in place of Joelinton (never seen in....no, I've seen this and usually from coaches with huge Egos, Mourinho put Eto'o at left back in one match). Considering that Eddie fortunately doesn't have a huge ego, I have no logic explanation to that tactical move.

 

I've watched a lot of Premier League matches this season and I'm pretty sure Sunderland have one of the worst squads in the league...which means Le Bris is an excellent coach, certainly the one who's done the best job (in the entire PL) considering the quality of his players. He could be a man to bet on for the future.

I'd still go with Mancini, as Howe's replacement, and I think he also wants to return to Europe.

 

[DC Magpie]

4 hours ago, Holmesy said:

I think the opposite is true - trying to breathe new life into a group of players who are already not executing your plan is harder than going into a new group with fresh ideas and new energy, especially if you don't make changes.  The players are already familiar with him and as has been mentioned a number of times, they have listened to the same ideas and the same voices for a long time.
 

 

For anyone who's ever coached before, or who's ever been coached, you know it is extremely difficult for a coach to regain the confidence of a team once he's lost it. I had a lot of faith in Eddie and in his ability to turn the ship and get us back on a hot streak in these last seven games. I bought the excuses that he had been hamstrung by the incessant schedule, prohibiting him from developing players, installing new tactics, etc. But then he gets a three week break with no games at all and what does he do? He comes out in the same formation, same tactics, same lineup. Same everything.

 

But it wasn't until the team came out in that first half jogging and looking completely lethargic that I know Eddie had lost the team. They're not buying his schtick any more. It's over for him with this team whether anyone in Riyadh knows it or not (I suspect Eddie knows it though). This was a time to come out on fire, but we looked bored and uninterested (not unlike Riyadh come to think of it). I honestly couldn't believe it.

 

I have no idea who the next coach should be, but I'd rather figure that out sooner than later so we can target players accordingly to fit that new system. i don't want the Bournemouth guy though. I think he's just more of the same. I think Mourinho would help attract us some players we might not otherwise get without Europe to offer next year but I don't know about him long term.

[Keegans Export]

Does Mourinho really have that much pull now? His peak was probably 15-20 years ago, if we're targeting players who were toddlers during the "Special One" years is he going to shift the needle all that much?

[J7]

1 hour ago, DC Magpie said:

 

For anyone who's ever coached before, or who's ever been coached, you know it is extremely difficult for a coach to regain the confidence of a team once he's lost it. I had a lot of faith in Eddie and in his ability to turn the ship and get us back on a hot streak in these last seven games. I bought the excuses that he had been hamstrung by the incessant schedule, prohibiting him from developing players, installing new tactics, etc. But then he gets a three week break with no games at all and what does he do? He comes out in the same formation, same tactics, same lineup. Same everything.

 

But it wasn't until the team came out in that first half jogging and looking completely lethargic that I know Eddie had lost the team. They're not buying his schtick any more. It's over for him with this team whether anyone in Riyadh knows it or not (I suspect Eddie knows it though). This was a time to come out on fire, but we looked bored and uninterested (not unlike Riyadh come to think of it). I honestly couldn't believe it.

 

I have no idea who the next coach should be, but I'd rather figure that out sooner than later so we can target players accordingly to fit that new system. i don't want the Bournemouth guy though. I think he's just more of the same. I think Mourinho would help attract us some players we might not otherwise get without Europe to offer next year but I don't know about him long term.

Agree with most of the first two paragraphs here. Once it’s gone, it’s gone and I don’t think he’s turning it round again. I’d love nothing more than to be wrong, but I think it’s too much of a risk giving him the summer given how important it is. 
 

Id personally be happy with Iraola, certainly over Glasner, but I’d like to think the club have done their homework on other options. Given the position we’ve put ourselves in, next season is already likely to be a transition season with so many changes needed. Expectations would need to be tempered as this season and the lack business/turnover in the squad over the last few years has sent us so far backwards compared to the team challenging the top 5.

[Coffee_Johnny]

17 hours ago, Guybrush said:

Ah kna it's a Mackem talking point, but it did happen in some circles whether we want to admit it or not. Plenty of media at the time picked up on it too (eg https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2277260/robson-hurt-by-boo-boys) 

 

I feel like this Howe Out stuff has parallels, and I don't think that is a radical observation 

 

 

Robson left over a year after Bowyer joined, so if the article is evidence of him being hounded out, it must have took a while .

[Gawalls]

12 hours ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

Mourinho would be the worst thing that could happen to you...that said, I'd like to explain why I went from being absolutely pro-Howe to hoping he leaves:

 

1) Many of you are attached to Howe because, in addition to being an extremely pleasant person, he was certainly a good coach and helped you reach goals you hadn't seen in a long time, but thinking he should stay for life out of gratitude is always wrong, especially when, like this season, he gets almost everything wrong.

2) For me Howe is English football from the '80s, intensity and physicality and nothing else...and I don't mean that in a negative sense because I loved English football from those years, and everything is fine when you have a season like last year; but when you struggle like this year, his solutions have been ZERO...it's not that he tried to change anything and failed, he just didn't try to do it.

3) The 4-3-3 is your cancer, I said it in October and I'm even more convinced now. Those very few times Howe changed the system, the wingers were still present and the wingers are your weakest point.

4) You yourselves told me (I was skeptical) that, perhaps apart from Woltemade, the rest of the new signings were definitely chosen or approved by Howe...nothing else to add here.

5) Very often, we criticize a coach for his lineup choices, which is purely subjective ; I wouldn't even let someone like Elanga play in the Italian Serie B but Howe sees him every day in training, and I don't...so I'm probably wrong and he's right. Other times, the criticisms are objective and no reason in the world can justify certain choices. Three examples:

a) February, you're playing every three days between the league, cup, and the Champions League, you win 6-1 against Qarabag, and in the return match at home you field the best possible lineup??? (never seen in 45 years of football).

b) Last game, you're a goal down and with 30 seconds to end you make two substitutions? (never seen in 45 years).

c) Imagine Guardiola playing Haaland in midfield !! That's the only thing Howe has tried to change this season is... putting Wolte in place of Joelinton (never seen in....no, I've seen this and usually from coaches with huge Egos, Mourinho put Eto'o at left back in one match). Considering that Eddie fortunately doesn't have a huge ego, I have no logic explanation to that tactical move.

 

I've watched a lot of Premier League matches this season and I'm pretty sure Sunderland have one of the worst squads in the league...which means Le Bris is an excellent coach, certainly the one who's done the best job (in the entire PL) considering the quality of his players. He could be a man to bet on for the future.

I'd still go with Mancini, as Howe's replacement, and I think he also wants to return to Europe.

 

If be very happy with Mancini, according to Gemini over his entire management career he still averages over 2 points per game, if that's true it's crazy.

[Kaizero]

If, and only if, Howe's sacked/resigns at the end of the season; I'd very much welcome Mourinho if he were to be his replacement. Would I be welcoming him solely because of, and based on, his SBR connection? Yes, yes I would  

 

I just feel like if something feels like the universe is setting up the story beats for a "Hollywood Ending", who are we to tell the universe to fuck off? Mourinho managing us as his most likely, in that scenario, last gig in club management before either retiring or taking over Portugal... leading the hometown club of personal hero and mentor into the golden era filled to the brim with success and trophies his mentor never achieved in his lifetime. The obvious close connection Mourinho has had to SBR since he was given his first footballing gig as SBR's translator at Sporting a whopping 34 years ago this year would automatically warm most of the fanbase up to him, if not immediately, then at the very least much sooner than any other alternative.

 

That connection would in turn likely also make it easier for him to motivate his players, as he'd genuinely want to do well to honor Sir Bobby's memory. He'd (I strongly believe) finally regain a semblance of motivation to do well as a club's manager again, which it has not looked like he's had ever since his 2nd stint at Stamford Bridge came to a close in December 2015. He's just looked more and more unmotivated for each club he's taken charge of in the 11 years that's followed. I genuinely do not believe he'd rock up at St. James' without a fire in his belly, fully motivated to honor Sir Bobby's memory by reminding the world why he once called himself "The Special One"  

[bobbydazzla]

12 hours ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

Mourinho would be the worst thing that could happen to you...that said, I'd like to explain why I went from being absolutely pro-Howe to hoping he leaves:

 

1) Many of you are attached to Howe because, in addition to being an extremely pleasant person, he was certainly a good coach and helped you reach goals you hadn't seen in a long time, but thinking he should stay for life out of gratitude is always wrong, especially when, like this season, he gets almost everything wrong.

2) For me Howe is English football from the '80s, intensity and physicality and nothing else...and I don't mean that in a negative sense because I loved English football from those years, and everything is fine when you have a season like last year; but when you struggle like this year, his solutions have been ZERO...it's not that he tried to change anything and failed, he just didn't try to do it.

3) The 4-3-3 is your cancer, I said it in October and I'm even more convinced now. Those very few times Howe changed the system, the wingers were still present and the wingers are your weakest point.

4) You yourselves told me (I was skeptical) that, perhaps apart from Woltemade, the rest of the new signings were definitely chosen or approved by Howe...nothing else to add here.

5) Very often, we criticize a coach for his lineup choices, which is purely subjective ; I wouldn't even let someone like Elanga play in the Italian Serie B but Howe sees him every day in training, and I don't...so I'm probably wrong and he's right. Other times, the criticisms are objective and no reason in the world can justify certain choices. Three examples:

a) February, you're playing every three days between the league, cup, and the Champions League, you win 6-1 against Qarabag, and in the return match at home you field the best possible lineup??? (never seen in 45 years of football).

b) Last game, you're a goal down and with 30 seconds to end you make two substitutions? (never seen in 45 years).

c) Imagine Guardiola playing Haaland in midfield !! That's the only thing Howe has tried to change this season is... putting Wolte in place of Joelinton (never seen in....no, I've seen this and usually from coaches with huge Egos, Mourinho put Eto'o at left back in one match). Considering that Eddie fortunately doesn't have a huge ego, I have no logic explanation to that tactical move.

 

I've watched a lot of Premier League matches this season and I'm pretty sure Sunderland have one of the worst squads in the league...which means Le Bris is an excellent coach, certainly the one who's done the best job (in the entire PL) considering the quality of his players. He could be a man to bet on for the future.

I'd still go with Mancini, as Howe's replacement, and I think he also wants to return to Europe.

 

 

Always interesting to get an outsiders perspective and a lot of what you say feels like astute observations.

 

The point about Le Bris is interesting, if it wasn’t for the fact he’s managing those hillbillies down the road then based on what he’s done this season I’m sure a few would be mentioning his name alongside other PL names that consistently get suggested like Iraola, Silva etc 

 

And before anyone piles in, I’m not saying we should go for Le Bris or he’s better than Howe, am just saying that he’s doing a decent job for them and may well be on the radar of bigger clubs but he’ll not be on our radar, for the glaringly obvious reason. Nothing more than that.
 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by bobbydazzla

[Curva Sud Milano]

18 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

If be very happy with Mancini, according to Gemini over his entire management career he still averages over 2 points per game, if that's true it's crazy.

 

Mancini, as a player, had extraordinary intelligence on the pitch and that's still his best quality as a coach... he would be a "soft" treatment for your club, unlike Conte who would be a shock for the club and even some of your players (Bruno for sure).

Inzaghi could be another good alternative but certainly inferior to these two.

[Gawalls]

8 minutes ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

 

Mancini, as a player, had extraordinary intelligence on the pitch and that's still his best quality as a coach... he would be a "soft" treatment for your club, unlike Conte who would be a shock for the club and even some of your players (Bruno for sure).

Inzaghi could be another good alternative but certainly inferior to these two.

I think I'd still prefer Pochetino though, I just feel every club in England has been in a better position when he left then when he took over and Chelsea sacking him when he just got it right and was unbeaten in last 15 games was harsh I felt. I think he'd be a great choice to push on.

[SUPERTOON]

Still think it’s very debatable that Poch would be an upgrade on Howe.

[Gawalls]

17 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Still think it’s very debatable that Poch would be an upgrade on Howe.

More of ff the same I feel except he's done the same level job at more then one club, took Southampton from bottom to 8th when he left, spurs from mid tabke to the three times title contenders with a CL final and a semi final and Chelsea with European football, carabao cup final, fa cup semi final and for them back into Europe finishing on a 15 games unbeaten run to the season.

 

Every one of those clubs being in better condition when he left then when he joined, I feel he's a great "next chapter" choice.

 

 

Edited April 17 by Gawalls

[TRon]

1 hour ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

Always interesting to get an outsiders perspective and a lot of what you say feels like astute observations.

 

The point about Le Bris is interesting, if it wasn’t for the fact he’s managing those hillbillies down the road then based on what he’s done this season I’m sure a few would be mentioning his name alongside other PL names that consistently get suggested like Iraola, Silva etc 

 

And before anyone piles in, I’m not saying we should go for Le Bris or he’s better than Howe, am just saying that he’s doing a decent job for them and may well be on the radar of bigger clubs but he’ll not be on our radar, for the glaringly obvious reason. Nothing more than that.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Le Bris didn't just win the derby once in his head to head with Howe, he won both. With a team which cost less than two of our summer signings. 

 

It wasn't just the results though, it was more you couldn't really tell which team had just come up from the championship. I'm not confident we'd beat them next season either if Howe's still here. 

[J7]

4 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

Still think it’s very debatable that Poch would be an upgrade on Howe.

It’s not as simple as that though.
 

It’s not just merely lining up the attributes of two managers and ignoring the situation. It’s about how they’ll do going forward. What we’re doing under Howe now, is very different to what we were doing in the past. The question is if and how he can turn the decline around. I’ve no doubt that if he left he’d go on to be a success somewhere else with a fresh start, probably Everton. 

[Jonas]

9 hours ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

 

Mancini, as a player, had extraordinary intelligence on the pitch and that's still his best quality as a coach... he would be a "soft" treatment for your club, unlike Conte who would be a shock for the club and even some of your players (Bruno for sure).

Inzaghi could be another good alternative but certainly inferior to these two.

Mancini was my favourite player as a kid but I've never been sure about him as a manager (Man City at that time was a slam dunk). I wouldn't be  comfortable with his appointment beyond the romanticism of that for me. 

[Collage]

Howe deserves time to turn this around, but if we somehow could get Mancini...yes, I would approve.

[duo]

26 minutes ago, Collage said:

Howe deserves time to turn this around, but if we somehow could get Mancini...yes, I would approve.

I'll base that on the remaining game - am not convinced he can turn this around.  And Mancini would be a backward step.  

[Curva Sud Milano]

1 hour ago, Jonas said:

Mancini was my favourite player as a kid but I've never been sure about him as a manager (Man City at that time was a slam dunk). I wouldn't be  comfortable with his appointment beyond the romanticism of that for me. 

 

If I may clear up any doubts... Mancini took over an Italian national team whose technical qualities were embarrassing and achieved a streak of 37 consecutive unbeaten results ( world record for a national team), also winning a European Championship.

20 years ago with Inter he did an exceptional job and I don't think he failed at City either. I still consider Ancelotti a better coach but while we all agree on Ancelotti, many (abroad) underestimate Mancini. His only real flaw was his hot-headed nature as a player and in his very early years as a coach, a flaw that has almost disappeared over the years... temperamentally,now, he's the opposite of Conte.

[Collage]

My only problem with Mancini would be that he, like Mourinho, has his best years behind him, even though he won the Euros with Italy as late as 2020. CV-wise they're in a different league from Howe but Eddie is 15 years younger.

[Mountain]

I think Audrey who runs my local sandwich shop would do a job.

 

She's got staff that listen to her and although she did spend 55 million pounds on Elanga to come and help out with the butties, after he made several errors she managed to flog him to Greggs for 30 mil and took the hit. Proactive!

 

[Hudson]

21 hours ago, Collage said:

Howe deserves time to turn this around, but if we somehow could get Mancini...yes, I would approve.

He’s had all season to turn it around, I’m not seeing any signs he will and I’m gutted about it.