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Delima

by Delima
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Decky

Decky

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, kisearch said:

 

 

Like this hastily drawn monstrosity?

g4qgnB9.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Wonder how long it would take to demolish and clear the Milburn and SJH stands, because we could build a large part of that with SJP unaffected, then we could play with just the Gallowgate and East Stand until that final side of the new stadium is completed. We obviously couldn't play while they demolished the Milburn and SJH stands though so if we could get away with it could that be done in the summer? Or even reduced to a safe level so that whats left over could be demolished while we play in SJP. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, carpetman1 said:

You contradict yourself. If it would feel like home, why should moving be out of the question? Been a match-going fan since 74. Let's go back to the piss-soaked covered Leazes, then the uncovered Leazes. More home-like?

 

It would feel like home because it's now 25 years later. I was young enough then that the move wouldn't have meant anything to me and tradition in general didn't mean anything to me, but it does now that I'm older. By moving being out of the question I meant further than Leazes Park, which probably would have been a decent compromise. 

 

 

Edited by kisearch

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Jackie Broon

Jackie Broon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, kisearch said:

 

It would feel like home because it's now 25 years later. I was young enough then that the move wouldn't have meant anything to me and tradition in general didn't mean anything to me, but it does now that I'm older. 

 

What makes St. James Park unique wouldn't really be lost by moving to Castle Leazes, it's still really central and actually more elevated than St. James Park so would still be likely to be visible across the city.

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ponsaelius

ponsaelius

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is a rough guide of the conservation and planning constraints (ignoring any construction constraints, ownership or anything to do with the Freemen):

Constraints.png

 

Leazes Terrace is as protected as you can possibly get. Grade I listed means you're not going to be able to touch it, incorporate it etc - it's just a non starter. Not only that but you're not going to be allowed to build up or any closer in any way which further impacts upon its historical setting. Its residential use adds to this constraint as any building upwards would result in increased shadowing and loss of light. It's also very unlikely this use could ever be changed - the original use of any listed building is part of its cache and historical significance and any change to this is usually considered detrimental. Particularly because it usually requires internal changes to the fabric (which all need consent). You need significant justification to change the use of a Grade I listed building - proof that it's unviable in current form, that it's going to disrepair etc. Basically that for it's continued survival change of use is the only option - which is clearly not the case here. 

So any extension to the East Stand is basically a non-starter I think. Maybe a whole rebuild, incorporation of safe standing might boost numbers slightly. But probably barely worth it.

Plonking it directly into Leazes Park is also a no-goer. Although this is only Grade II listed - you couldn't just build a stadium right in the middle of it. Its intrinsic historic layout is part of its historic significance. It would also probably not significantly improve the setting of Leazes Terrace.

However - Leazes Park has changed a bit over time since it was first laid out. A proposal on Castle Leazes would likely infringe slightly on the north-west extremes of Leazes Park, but would also see it expanded and enhanced on the site of the current SJP, and would dramatically improve the setting of Leazes Terrace. There's an argument there that any harmful impact to the original footprint of Leazes Park is outweighed by the wider benefits - particularly the setting of Leazes Terrace.

Stadium.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by ponsaelius

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STM

STM

Posted
Posted

Love stuff like this. As long as the ground is still in the city centre, I wouldn't mind it moved a few yards for extra capacity.

 

It must be unique though. It has to have something different to every other stadium. 

 

Spurs can fuck off. I want a one like the Allianz or that Birds nest thing in China.

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manorpark

manorpark

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

This is a rough guide of the conservation and planning constraints (ignoring any construction constraints, ownership or anything to do with the Freemen):

Constraints.png

 

Leazes Terrace is as protected as you can possibly get. Grade I listed means you're not going to be able to touch it, incorporate it etc - it's just a non starter. Not only that but you're not going to be allowed to build up or any closer in any way which further impacts upon its historical setting. Its residential use adds to this constraint as any building upwards would result in increased shadowing and loss of light. It's also very unlikely this use could ever be changed - the original use of any listed building is part of its cache and historical significance and any change to this is usually considered detrimental. Particularly because it usually requires internal changes to the fabric (which all need consent). You need significant justification to change the use of a Grade I listed building - proof that it's unviable in current form, that it's going to disrepair etc. Basically that for it's continued survival change of use is the only option - which is clearly not the case here. 

So any extension to the East Stand is basically a non-starter I think. Maybe a whole rebuild, incorporation of safe standing might boost numbers slightly. But probably barely worth it.

Plonking it directly into Leazes Park is also a no-goer. Although this is only Grade II listed - you couldn't just build a stadium right in the middle of it. Its intrinsic historic layout is part of its historic significance. It would also probably not significantly improve the setting of Leazes Terrace.

However - Leazes Park has changed a bit over time since it was first laid out. A proposal on Castle Leazes would likely infringe slightly on the north-west extremes of Leazes Park, but would also see it expanded and enhanced on the site of the current SJP, and would dramatically improve the setting of Leazes Terrace. There's an argument there that any harmful impact to the original footprint of Leazes Park is outweighed by the wider benefits - particularly the setting of Leazes Terrace.

Stadium.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your second image is very similar to the 1997 proposals, except they had the indoor arena (half the size of SJP) where SJP used to be . . . 

Newcastle_United_FC_-_1997_New_Ground_Pl

 

 

Edited by manorpark

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manorpark

manorpark

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kisearch said:

Do we have any images of the original plan? I've saw them at the time and on one of the B&W videos, but haven't seen it recently. I wonder if that'll ever be revisited as an option now. 

 

Posted them a few posts back - https://newcastle-online.org/topic/4883-st-james-park-caulkin-sd-advertising-to-remain-for-the-short-term/?do=findComment&comment=6910261

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Toon No9

Toon No9

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Decky said:

 

Wonder how long it would take to demolish and clear the Milburn and SJH stands, because we could build a large part of that with SJP unaffected, then we could play with just the Gallowgate and East Stand until that final side of the new stadium is completed. We obviously couldn't play while they demolished the Milburn and SJH stands though so if we could get away with it could that be done in the summer? Or even reduced to a safe level so that whats left over could be demolished while we play in SJP. 

That would be awesome!

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cubaricho

cubaricho

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, STM said:

It must be unique though. It has to have something different to every other stadium. 

 

Spurs can fuck off. I want a one like the Allianz or that Birds nest thing in China.

 

Genuinely think we'll have the best stadium in the world and it will be incredibly unique.

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HaydnNUFC

HaydnNUFC

Posted
Posted

Is expanding the Gallowgate a non starter given Ashley's cuntish sale of the land behind it? If it is able to happen, I'd rather see us extend the Gallowgate and bring us to ~60,000 than see a new stadium built. SJP is just too special imo, money should be invested in modernising it;

 

The Platinum Club and areas like that and Bar 1892 should be very modernised. I saw a clip of the 93-94 season review and the Platinum Club has not changed since 1993 when it opened. It's dreadful. Modernise it, give it a sports bar like appearance with added benefits of being a member there given that STs there cost around a grand.

 

Modernise the concourses elsewhere in the ground. Try and mirror the concourses in Spurs' ground but make them unique to Newcastle; Wylam Brewery beer, locally made food, et cetera. Improve the bogs and all that shite.

 

Clean up the brickwork outside the ground, the roofs, et cetera.

 

Just modernise SJP and bring into the 2020s and if expanding the Gallowgate is an option, do it. We may well be able to fill a 65-75k ground for big games v Man Utd, Chelsea, big European games et cetera. But when we're playing Norwich at home midweek, are we going to sell out a ground that big? I have doubts.

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Fantail Breeze

Fantail Breeze

Posted
Posted

As long as we don’t end up with a hideous flatpack stadium like Leicester, Southampton, Reading, Derby etc. I’ll be fine.

 

I’d rather we find a way to add 10k seats to SJP than move elsewhere if it’s for the sake of another 10k seats or so.

 

Spurs’ stadium is obviously nice but there is something missing compared to the older stadiums. Can’t put my finger on it.

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HaydnNUFC

HaydnNUFC

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fantail Breeze said:

As long as we don’t end up with a hideous flatpack stadium like Leicester, Southampton, Reading, Derby etc. I’ll be fine.

 

I’d rather we find a way to add 10k seats to SJP than move elsewhere if it’s for the sake of another 10k seats or so.

 

Spurs’ stadium is obviously nice but there is something missing compared to the older stadiums. Can’t put my finger on it.

 

.com sort of nailed it when we won there in August 2019;

 

Quote

A claimed £850m outlay gets you the second largest stadium in the Premier League behind Old Trafford, with around 2,300 more seats than their local rivals, Arsenal. Constructed over part of the footprint of the former White Hart Lane ground, it's genuinely impressive inside and out.

Some of the same problems evident with cramped facilities in the away section at the Emirates were experienced here, but the concourse TVs came in very hand after coverage of the Bournemouth versus Manchester City ended and the climax of the Ashes Cricket was shown. The incredible end to that was greeted with great celebrations and rare "Ingerlund" chants from our lot. 

The local transport infrastructure hasn't kept pace with the needs of an extra 25,000 spectators and is still a work in progress, with the new White Hart Lane Overground station due to open for the next home game here. A deal was rumoured to have been struck earlier this year to rename that to "Tottenham Hotspur", but that seems to have bitten the dust (rivals Arsenal were more successful when getting Gillespie Road tube station renamed to Arsenal back in 1932).  

To that end, home fans are encouraged to use bars inside the stadium post-match to stagger demand for trains as is the case at Brighton and Hove Albion's Amex Stadium.

On today's evidence, the biggest problem that Spurs have with their lovely new home is stopping home fans from snoozing mid-match or popping off to visit the on-site microbrewery. This place is just too comfortable, and like Arsenal, the home atmosphere was non-existent.

 

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nufcjb

nufcjb

Posted
Posted (edited)

Get the best engineers and architechts involved and i can see them doing something to the Gallowgate at the very least. Can we knock it down and rebuild to add a steep angle to it and add more seating? It doesn't have to mirror the SJH stand design for now. Perhaps later, the SJH stand can mirror the new Gallowgate?

 

 

Edited by nufcjb

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