St James' Park

[MarkyMark]

There’s significant constructibility issues re extending the Gallowgate.  For all the griping about Ashley ‘stopping expansion potential’ by selling the land, it would be a nightmare place to try and construct an expansion - an expansion which I doubt is technically possible.

 

St James’ is, infamously, built on a slope (again, part of that ‘unsuitable site for a football ground’ thing).  That slope continues further down, which presents problems.  Pretty much the only way you could foresee an extension under those conditions is via massive piling.  Then you’ve the issue of attempting to build a stand extension on a slope over an underground railway station - which means that the obvious route of massive piles is pretty much ruled out.

 

My old practice had the plans for a massively increased SJP, which did the rounds in a few professional construction firms in the late ‘90s.  It’s not just prohibitively expensive - it may be impossible due to the site conditions and risks from the site; certainly in terms of extending capacity by c.7k it just seems daft.

 

And the existence of Leazes Terrace (which is a truly beautiful piece of architecture) effectively snookers the only other extension on the site.

 

I don’t think anyone wants a stadium on the outskirts of the city.  But I stand by SJP being a lopsided eyesore, the layout of which actively harms the atmosphere inside the ground (SJP was never particularly loud post-Taylor all-seating, but the atmosphere took an obvious nosedive after the expansion in 2000).

 

There would be the option to remain at SJP with a rebuild - which would mean a reduced capacity during construction - you could achieve this by moving the pitch to where the current west stand is; it would also be achievable by rotating the pitch 90deg. With the option of rotating the pitch, you could leave the Leazes and East Stands in place, and the Gallowgate while construction occurs (it would remain a fair distance from the field of play).  Demolish the West Stand, extend the Leazes (which would become a new stand rather than end), and then sequentially you could rebuild both the current East Stand (which could be moved further forward), before rebuilding a new Gallowgate stand of the same size as the Leazes, as well as a new West End.  A costly rebuild, which would likely take two years - but the club would still be at SJP, you’d still have punters in the stands (albeit reduced capacity), and you’d end up with a shiny, modern stadium as a result.

 

Or you could see if you can buy a site close to the city centre (expensive), though ultimately you’d have an expensive site available once a move is complete.  And given that stadium investments don’t impact FFP, it would be an obvious means of increasing income.  

[Kaizero]

11 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

They could relocate Leazes Terrace to where the Arena is now

This deserves more appreciation  

[TK-421]

8 hours ago, Miggys First Goal said:

Were all those empty white boards where SD was or have some others been removed?

 

Are they blanks (where SD was) or could they be new sponsor boards, covered over to be revealed for next home game? 

[Whitley mag]

3 hours ago, MarkyMark said:

There’s significant constructibility issues re extending the Gallowgate.  For all the griping about Ashley ‘stopping expansion potential’ by selling the land, it would be a nightmare place to try and construct an expansion - an expansion which I doubt is technically possible.

 

St James’ is, infamously, built on a slope (again, part of that ‘unsuitable site for a football ground’ thing).  That slope continues further down, which presents problems.  Pretty much the only way you could foresee an extension under those conditions is via massive piling.  Then you’ve the issue of attempting to build a stand extension on a slope over an underground railway station - which means that the obvious route of massive piles is pretty much ruled out.

 

My old practice had the plans for a massively increased SJP, which did the rounds in a few professional construction firms in the late ‘90s.  It’s not just prohibitively expensive - it may be impossible due to the site conditions and risks from the site; certainly in terms of extending capacity by c.7k it just seems daft.

 

And the existence of Leazes Terrace (which is a truly beautiful piece of architecture) effectively snookers the only other extension on the site.

 

I don’t think anyone wants a stadium on the outskirts of the city.  But I stand by SJP being a lopsided eyesore, the layout of which actively harms the atmosphere inside the ground (SJP was never particularly loud post-Taylor all-seating, but the atmosphere took an obvious nosedive after the expansion in 2000).

 

There would be the option to remain at SJP with a rebuild - which would mean a reduced capacity during construction - you could achieve this by moving the pitch to where the current west stand is; it would also be achievable by rotating the pitch 90deg. With the option of rotating the pitch, you could leave the Leazes and East Stands in place, and the Gallowgate while construction occurs (it would remain a fair distance from the field of play).  Demolish the West Stand, extend the Leazes (which would become a new stand rather than end), and then sequentially you could rebuild both the current East Stand (which could be moved further forward), before rebuilding a new Gallowgate stand of the same size as the Leazes, as well as a new West End.  A costly rebuild, which would likely take two years - but the club would still be at SJP, you’d still have punters in the stands (albeit reduced capacity), and you’d end up with a shiny, modern stadium as a result.

 

Or you could see if you can buy a site close to the city centre (expensive), though ultimately you’d have an expensive site available once a move is complete.  And given that stadium investments don’t impact FFP, it would be an obvious means of increasing income.  

Best post on the subject I’ve read and lays out exactly why a new stadium is the only option down the line whether most like it or not. History is great but our new owners want to be the best and if they feel it’s necessary to move we should support them all the way. 
 

Clubs like West Ham now attract 60k we can’t  be restricted by SJP if we want to truly be a top club.

 

The only thing I disagree about is SJP not being particularly loud post Taylor, the atmosphere under Keegan came from all 4 stands and exceeded anything I ever heard post old  Leazes terrace roof coming off. The place used to be rocking, I’ll never forget the Cantona 1 nil game the place was deafening a full 20 Mins before kick off and I can genuinely say I’ve never heard the place as loud as that night ( though admittedly we did run out of steam in 2nd half).

 

These owners have the money to secure a city centre stadium, let them get on with it when that time comes.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Whitley mag

[Robster]

15 hours ago, midds said:

Fucking wonderful photo.

[NE27]

3 hours ago, MarkyMark said:

though ultimately you’d have an expensive site available once a move is complete.

 

Isn't this the councils land so we wouldn't really benefit at all from the redundant land left behind?

[Ben]

I'm pleased to say my hatred a of Ashley has no diminished since he fucked off...........which is nice.

[Yorkie]

4 hours ago, MarkyMark said:

For all the griping about Ashley ‘stopping expansion potential’ by selling the land,

 

Interesting take again, Marky but I take issue with the tone here.  Whether or not there was the possibility for expansion, selling off that asset for absolutely zero benefit to the club was friggin disgraceful. It could have been used for anything.

 

If the only way to get a bigger stadium is to move then I think I'd rather stick with 52,000 and tart up the eyesore. 

[Decky]

Selling land right beside our stadium was insane even if it wasn’t for expansion. We could have done absolutely anything with it. Now we can do fuck all and the likelihood is tall buildings that block views of SJP from around the city will be fired up. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Decky

[LeeB]

I don't know how far along it ever got as it was announced just before Ashley bought the club, but in early 2007 there were plans to expand the Gallowgate by 8000 using the land on top of the metro station. That increase in capacity doesn't sound enough to me to make the whole stadium minus the East Stand an equal height, but it does suggest that in theory it is possible.

[manorpark]

11 minutes ago, Decky said:

Selling land right beside our stadium was insane even if it wasn’t for expansion. We could have done absolutely anything with it.

 

Now we can do fuck all and the likelihood is tall buildings that block views of SJP from around the city will be fired up. 

 

 

 

 

In a very successful and prosperous City Centre, such as ours, any "distance views" of anything in that City Centre are unlikely to last for long. Due to the lack of development of the temporary car park in front of St James' Metro Station, we have actually had these views (of SJP) for a lot of years.

 

One way or the other that 'gap site' will be built on sooner or later.

 

Already there are tall new buildings next to the Strawberry Pub, and currently there are even more tall new buildings being constucted 'around' the Strawberry as the Headquarters of Home Group Ltd. 

 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/strawberry-place-home-group-headquarters-and-vita-student-accommodation-newcastle-various-u-c.981402/post-176383855

 

Gap Sites in City Centre locations are always just temporary, no matter how much some of us may want some of them to remain.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by manorpark

[bigfella]

1 minute ago, LeeB said:

I don't know how far along it ever got as it was announced just before Ashley bought the club, but in early 2007 there were plans to expand the Gallowgate by 8000 using the land on top of the metro station. That increase in capacity doesn't sound enough to me to make the whole stadium minus the East Stand an equal height, but it does suggest that in theory it is possible.

 

When we built level 7, the capacity increased by roughly 16,000.

Just off the top of my head, that would equate to around 9-10,000 in the Milburn and 6-7,000 in the Leazes.

I would imagine you'd be looking at a similar increase to the Leazes expansion, with a couple of thousand added on for the South West corner.

[LeeB]

8 minutes ago, bigfella said:

 

When we built level 7, the capacity increased by roughly 16,000.

Just off the top of my head, that would equate to around 9-10,000 in the Milburn and 6-7,000 in the Leazes.

I would imagine you'd be looking at a similar increase to the Leazes expansion, with a couple of thousand added on for the South West corner.

 

That would work out then.

 

Article in the Guardian from 2007 about it: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/apr/03/newsstory.sport3

 

Then a few months later this was in the Chronicle, whose links I won't bother posting:

 

Quote

"Now that Bruce Shepherd has gone and Ashley has launched his review of Newcastle United, the expansion could never happen.
A lot of work was starting to be put into the plans, with lots of discussions with planners and architects taking place.
But it all could come to nothing if Mr Ashley decides he is not interested."

 

And that was that.

[Whitley mag]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Interesting take again, Marky but I take issue with the tone here.  Whether or not there was the possibility for expansion, selling off that asset for absolutely zero benefit to the club was friggin disgraceful. It could have been used for anything.

 

If the only way to get a bigger stadium is to move then I think I'd rather stick with 52,000 and tart up the eyesore. 

You can’t stick with 52000 and claim to be a big club when the likes of West Ham, Spurs, Man City and soon Everton will all have surpassed us.
 

Leeds also have plans to expand Elland Road,  we can’t stay at St Jame’s if expansion is not possible. 
 

The reason many of us are so excited about this takeover is the untapped potential of what this club could become, we simply can’t tie ourselves to St Jame’s because of an emotional attachment.

 

Castle Leazes is still probably the best option, it opens up Leazes Terrace and keeps City Centre location.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Whitley mag

[Shadow Puppets]

I like the idea of a new stadium like, ideally in the Leazes Park location. 

[GWN]

18 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

You can’t stick with 52000 and claim to be a big club when the likes of West Ham, Spurs, Man City and soon Everton will all have surpassed us.
 

Leeds also have plans to expand Elland Road,  we can’t stay at St Jame’s if expansion is not possible. 
 

The reason many of us are so excited about this takeover is the untapped potential of what this club could become, we simply can’t tie ourselves to St Jame’s because of an emotional attachment.

 

Castle Leazes is still probably the best option, it opens up Leazes Terrace and keeps City Centre location.

 

 

 

 

Chelsea are a big club …..42k maximum? 
 

We are a long way off ever moving , one thing at a time eh? 

[Big River]

calling SJP a lopsided eyesore is a fucking disgrace.

[Guest HTT II]

9 minutes ago, HUGZ said:

calling SJP a lopsided eyesore is a fucking disgrace.

Mackemesque 

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, Whitley mag said:

You can’t stick with 52000 and claim to be a big club when the likes of West Ham, Spurs, Man City and soon Everton will all have surpassed us.
 

Leeds also have plans to expand Elland Road,  we can’t stay at St Jame’s if expansion is not possible. 
 

The reason many of us are so excited about this takeover is the untapped potential of what this club could become, we simply can’t tie ourselves to St Jame’s because of an emotional attachment.

 

Castle Leazes is still probably the best option, it opens up Leazes Terrace and keeps City Centre location.

 

 

 

 

Etihad - 55,000

Amsterdam Arena - 55,000

Anfield - 53,000

Stamford Bridge - 41,000

Parc des Princes - 48,000

Juventus Stadium - 41,000

 

The capacity is perfectly fine for a club with aspirations of getting into the *represses vomit* Champions League. It just needs upgrading, modernising, a lot of TLC. 

 

I'm all for 'playing the game' if we're ever going to be a club that gets anywhere close to its ceiling (which is why I voted for the second option above rather than the top one), but moving away from SJP feels like selling a massive chunk of the soul, and too costly a price just for the sake of trading blows with insipid institutions like Chelsea, PSG and Juve. It would also feel very unnecessary. 

 

We've already got a fantastic stadium that just needs a lot of love. We don't need a new one. 

[Whitley mag]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

Etihad - 55,000

Amsterdam Arena - 55,000

Anfield - 53,000

Stamford Bridge - 41,000

Parc des Princes - 48,000

Juventus Stadium - 41,000

 

The capacity is perfectly fine for a club with aspirations of getting into the *represses vomit* Champions League. It just needs upgrading, modernising, a lot of TLC. 

 

I'm all for 'playing the game' if we're ever going to be a club that gets anywhere close to its ceiling (which is why I voted for the second option above rather than the top one), but moving away from SJP feels like selling a massive chunk of the soul, and too costly a price just for the sake of trading blows with insipid institutions like Chelsea, PSG and Juve. It would also feel very unnecessary. 

 

We've already got a fantastic stadium that just needs a lot of love. We don't need a new one. 

Chelsea and Liverpool both have plans to increase their stadium, they’re not standing still.

 

When the time comes if you can’t expand St Jame’s with potentially 10000 to 15000 wanting in for certain games, the only option is to move.

 

These people aren’t here to be middle of the road they build new cities from sand. I think folk will have to move with the times and be prepared to match the new owners ambition.

[Guest HTT II]

The warm down room complete, looks well shit 

 

[GWN]

4 minutes ago, HTT II said:

The warm down room complete, looks well shit 

 

 

it’s basically some artificial grass , 2  bikes and a dozen chairs 

 

very SDIRECT UTD 

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, GWN said:

 

it’s basically some artificial grass , 2  bikes and a dozen chairs 

 

very SDIRECT UTD 

It’s good they’ve done this obviously on request of the manager, but given the space used up, it’s kind of shit how it’s been executed. My boy’s team have had their club house in door training pitch redone and it’s much better.

[GWN]

2 minutes ago, HTT II said:

It’s good they’ve done this obviously on request of the manager, but given the space used up, it’s kind of shit how it’s been executed. My boy’s team have had their club house in door training pitch redone and it’s much better.

It’s  a quick temporary fix/ask , remember we had fuck all .

 

things will be different in 5 years , I’m told 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by GWN

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, GWN said:

It’s  a quick temporary fix/ask , remember we had fuck all .

 

things will be different in 5 years , I’m told 

 

 

 

I’m not complaining and again, it’s a good sign the owners will do what the manager requests, but I’ve seen better balconies kitted out. It’s very amateurish/Ashleyish, like painting the walls of SJP with some matte black paint.