José Enrique

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Enrique with years remaining on his contract probably fetches close to 25m. He's a top, top player. There isn't a reason in the world that can justify him leaving. If he does, there will only be one party to blame.

 

You need to think a bit more about that I reckon.

[SteveMc]

Enrique with years remaining on his contract probably fetches close to 25m. He's a top, top player. There isn't a reason in the world that can justify him leaving. If he does, there will only be one party to blame.

 

The Christmas party at Colo's?

[Minhosa]

Not a relevant question tbh.

 

The question you should be asking is who may be sold on the basis of that model.

 

Well that and what were his intentions of buying Ben Arfa when he was injured, loaning a headfuck at minimal cost and securing Tiote by giving him more money.

 

Why would he offer someone significantly more money for an extra years commitment?

 

Protecting his value (Tiote)

Grabbing a bargain (Ben Arfa & possibly Ireland)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the principles of the model, more the fact the club aren't just up front about it.

 

We are a feeder club now and the kids he'll buy in the summer, if they prove themselves by Xmas will be wrapped up in long term deals in order to sell to the highest bidder come next summer.

 

All good as long as Carr isn't hit by a bus, the team morale doesn't dive bomb a la relegation year (hence Nolan imho) and the fans don't stop turning up.

 

My understanding is that Liverpool were sniffing around Ben Arfa so the club decide to push the deal through early rather than wait until the end of the season and risk losing him.  Since they had agreed such a good price for him, once Ben Arfa signed that contract, they can almost certainly sell him for an immediate profit.  I know he has a lot to prove after the injury but even now before he has played again, they would easily get more than £5m for him.

 

 

I'm sure they would get north of £5m for him, north of £1.5m for Simpson, north of £3.5m for Tiote etc etc.

 

There is a rational that goes into every buy now and it's not what they can bring to the team more what they can bring into the clubs coffers.

 

See Gosling, Ireland and Ben Arfa imho.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

I'm sure they would get north of £5m for him, north of £1.5m for Simpson, north of £3.5m for Tiote etc etc.

 

There is a rational that goes into every buy now and it's not what they can bring to the team more what they can bring into the clubs coffers.

 

See Gosling, Ireland and Ben Arfa imho.

 

But doesn't that just mean that they were all brilliant buys?

[Minhosa]

This Summer will surely show Ashley's true intentions once and for all.  He is in the last chance saloon.  Will he sell several of our better players and replace them with poorer ones?   With the £35m+ received in transfer monies (assuming Jose goes), he has no excuses and failure to strengthen the squad will make it obvious to all supporters that he is not interested in improving the club in any way other than financially.  At that point, I think a lot of fans who have given him the benefit of the doubt up till now, will decide enough is enough.

there are two schools of thought amongst NUFC fans, one as posted above by wallace and the other that says mike ashley is the devil incarnate and he is somehow syphoning off any transfer profits into his own pocket.

 

I'm probably in the middle somewhere then because I think he's trying to turn the club around financially with a view to selling it.

 

I can see the business sense completely in the model he will use. Footballs not exactly a regular business though and he needs to be careful not to fuck off his consumers.

[Minhosa]

 

I'm sure they would get north of £5m for him, north of £1.5m for Simpson, north of £3.5m for Tiote etc etc.

 

There is a rational that goes into every buy now and it's not what they can bring to the team more what they can bring into the clubs coffers.

 

See Gosling, Ireland and Ben Arfa imho.

 

But doesn't that just mean that they were all brilliant buys?

 

I suppose the answer to that question depends up who you're asking it to.

 

NUFC Manager - probably not. Well, not for now, no.

 

NUFC Owner - absolutely.

[UV]

 

How will the squad gradually improve when constant turnover of top players? Surely, eventually, something has to give?

 

 

 

Constant turnover of top players? Isn't that to exaggerate a bit? Carroll's sale was the right thing to do. The deal was terrific. And Enrqiue wants to be sold. That's only two players. Together they have generated a whopping £50 mill. Used wisely, we could buy us a hell of a team that will be much stronger than a team consisting of Carroll and Enrique and mediocre recruitments.

 

Ashley's PR department would be so proud of you.

 

Isn't what he said fact?

 

Even Enrique hasn't left, so actually this is all based on one player sale.

 

While complaining about players on high wages who don't earn it, haven't we sold one or more of our best young players at the time on lowish wages every season bar his first?

 

Milner, N'Zogbia, Bassong, Carroll?

 

I guess you'll argue there were good reasons for selling all of them, but when it's exception after exception after exception, at some point you have to start thinking they're not really exceptions don't you? Don't you have to ask where the priorities lie when deciding whether or not to sell a player? Were they all sold with the aim of the on-field benefit of the club? Was Milner sold so we could improve the team? Was N'Zogbia sold so we could strengthen the squad? Was Bassong sold so we could free up his wages to bring in someone better?

 

Another way of looking at it is who have we resisted serious offers for to hang on to?

 

 

Then again I'm just one of madras' typical cockney haters who can't look at anything rationally, so Ashley will more than likely prove me wrong in the coming years and will go against practically everything he's done at the club so far and in business in general, and will act competently to hire the best staff available within our means with the on-field success of the club at the top of the priority list, and strive to constantly improve the product he sells to his customers.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm not someone who tries to reduce other people's opinions to stereotypes UV, I just debate the issue.

 

I do think there were good reasons for all of those sales, which I won't go into now as we've done that discussion to death. I would never have signed Duff when we had N'Zogbia, and I would personally have held onto Andy Carroll if it was at all possible (which I don't really know). But I'm a fan and I have the luxury of making decisions with my heart as well as head.

 

I also don't know which offers we have resisted, but there must have been some.

 

I'm heartened by the signings we've made recently, if it continues then it won't matter that we sell the odd player as the club will gradually progress. Obviously making good cheap signings is very difficult and it's a big question mark over the next couple of transfer windows.

 

What I don't believe is that our recent signings have only been made because we plan to sell them for a profit later.

[Colocho]

I would personally have held onto Andy Carroll if it was at all possible (which I don't really know).

 

Why do you defend them for selling him then?

[MW]

Don't see why they don't just offer him a rise, 4 year contract or something, and put in a minimum fee release clause of 15-20m or something, then everyones happy. would like to think he'd sign it just to help us out a bit....

[quayside]

 

How will the squad gradually improve when constant turnover of top players? Surely, eventually, something has to give?

 

 

 

Constant turnover of top players? Isn't that to exaggerate a bit? Carroll's sale was the right thing to do. The deal was terrific. And Enrqiue wants to be sold. That's only two players. Together they have generated a whopping £50 mill. Used wisely, we could buy us a hell of a team that will be much stronger than a team consisting of Carroll and Enrique and mediocre recruitments.

 

Ashley's PR department would be so proud of you.

 

Isn't what he said fact?

 

Even Enrique hasn't left, so actually this is all based on one player sale.

 

While complaining about players on high wages who don't earn it, haven't we sold one or more of our best young players at the time on lowish wages every season bar his first?

 

Milner, N'Zogbia, Bassong, Carroll?

 

I guess you'll argue there were good reasons for selling all of them, but when it's exception after exception after exception, at some point you have to start thinking they're not really exceptions don't you? Don't you have to ask where the priorities lie when deciding whether or not to sell a player? Were they all sold with the aim of the on-field benefit of the club? Was Milner sold so we could improve the team? Was N'Zogbia sold so we could strengthen the squad? Was Bassong sold so we could free up his wages to bring in someone better?

 

Another way of looking at it is who have we resisted serious offers for to hang on to?

 

 

Then again I'm just one of madras' typical cockney haters who can't look at anything rationally, so Ashley will more than likely prove me wrong in the coming years and will go against practically everything he's done at the club so far and in business in general, and will act competently to hire the best staff available within our means with the on-field success of the club at the top of the priority list, and strive to constantly improve the product he sells to his customers.

 

As ever loaded with sarcasm, but that apart - as a matter of interest how would you define "within our means"?

 

The club has operated well outside it's means for years, and that hasn't changed since Ashley took over. Even the Premiership seasons under Ashley consumed money, hence the millions he is owed.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I would personally have held onto Andy Carroll if it was at all possible (which I don't really know).

 

Why do you defend them for selling him then?

 

Because I'm not running the football club, and as I said I can make emotional decisions more easily. For example, taking into account the symbolic importance of Carroll, the fact he's Geordie, that there's a chance he might help us achieve bigger things etc etc.

 

I'm able to focus on those things and forget about how great it would be to have an income boost of £35m. I can understand why the people who actually run the club focus on the hard-nosed business decision more.

 

I've never blindly defended the sale, or I hope I haven't, I'm gutted that Carroll left. I can just understand why the decision was made.

[henke]

I think a lot of people seem to be over looking the possibility that perhaps Jose just wants to leave. Liverpool or whoever else are prepared to offer semi-serious cash for the lad, and even if the owner / chairman decide that he's central to their plans and they intend to invest the £35mil to take us forward - if he wants out there's not much we can do.

[Punk77]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

[junkhead]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

[alpal78]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

 

How do you know it's not true?

[Dr Venkman]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

 

How do you know it's not true?

 

you build an atmosphere within the club that is geared towards success on the field rather than making a profit in every transfer window, then maybe he doesnt want to leave.

[alpal78]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

 

How do you know it's not true?

 

you build an atmosphere within the club that is geared towards success on the field rather than making a profit in every transfer window, then maybe he doesnt want to leave.

 

we made a profit every transfer window since Ashley took over? You've got the stats to back that up?

[Punk77]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

 

How do you know it's not true?

 

you build an atmosphere within the club that is geared towards success on the field rather than making a profit in every transfer window, then maybe he doesnt want to leave.

 

we made a profit every transfer window since Ashley took over? You've got the stats to back that up?

 

Agreed! Fuck me, some people are truly paranoid.

 

Venkman: for all you know, the club is "creating a culture for success."  Building brick by brick is how Manure did it, and the same goes for arsenal. Why cannot we have the same patience? Or are you willing to go all in again signing big names? If you doe, you should not complain afterwards if the club is is unsuccessful  and is on the verge of being erased from the map.

[Wullie]

[Colocho]

- if he wants out there's not much we can do.

 

THIS!

 

That's not true though

 

How do you know it's not true?

 

you build an atmosphere within the club that is geared towards success on the field rather than making a profit in every transfer window, then maybe he doesnt want to leave.

 

we made a profit every transfer window since Ashley took over? You've got the stats to back that up?

 

Agreed! Fuck me, some people are truly paranoid.

 

Venkman: for all you know, the club is "creating a culture for success."  Building brick by brick is how Manure did it, and the same goes for arsenal. Why cannot we have the same patience? Or are you willing to go all in again signing big names? If you doe, you should not complain afterwards if the club is is unsuccessful  and is on the verge of being erased from the map.

 

Do you know Ashley personally?

[JH]

Every time Punk77 posts on this forum, a small part of me dies.

[Punk77]

Colocho: 92-93

[Colocho]

Every time Punk77 posts on this forum, a small part of me dies.

 

I know the feeling.

[Punk77]

Every time Punk77 posts on this forum, a small part of me dies.

 

Oh please..I actually try substantiate my assumptions. You on the other hand reel of some conspiracy theories and brands every person that disagree as demented..You could for once try to write why you disagree....Your brain will not explode, I promise...